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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:32 pm 
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The Miami Herald's Barry Jackson's thoughts on this:

Barry Jackson wrote:
The view here: Unless Tannehill is awful and the Dolphins are losing a lot partly or largely because of him, it’s short-sighted (many would say downright foolish) to bench him next season considering: 1) Tannehill has more upside than Moore; 2) Tannehill made considerable progress this season (10th in yards, 11th in completions) despite a dreadful offensive line; and 3) The Dolphins must determine this year if he’s their quarterback of the future, which they remain hopeful about.

LaCanfora does generally good work and breaks stories, but in assessing the Tannehill report, we should note that he was both right and wrong in covering the Dolphins’ machinations of the past month, incorrectly reporting that one of the finalists (Lake Dawson) was no longer under consideration and that Stephen Ross’s upcoming trip to London and possibly China could sidetrack the GM search for a week. (The Dolphins insist Ross already had gone to London by that point, never went to China, and the three days didn’t sidetrack the search.) None of this is noted to rip the hard-working LaCanfora, but perspective is needed on these types of eyebrow-raising reports.


Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-b ... rylink=cpy

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:40 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
You're not hearing me.


No, I am hearing what you're saying, but we're arguing two separate things.

I agree with you 100% that if Tannehill falters or doesn't improve then it is the coach's responsibility to move on. I wouldn't expect anything less from Philbin. Heck, if Tannehill sucks during the summer then bench his rear end.

I believe Tannehill did enough to get Miami into playoff position albeit in a very weak AFC (hence the two way street). He had good games and bad games but the defense and zero semblance of a running game were the things needed for this team to get over the hump. What Tannehill did, while admirable, does not define him as a franchise guy nor earn him a free pass so I am all on board with competition. He did enough give him more opportunity, but not enough to settle the discussion.

My big problem in this is Philbin's track record over the last month or so. What purpose does it serve to leak out that Tannehill's leash is shortened right now? If you've lost faith then open up the competition in training camp and draft your guy in early May (without all of the side drama via La Canfora). I look at A. Telling everyone "nothing to see here" when called out about no balance, Go/Go Go B. Teaming up against Ireland to say he ruined the work environment C. Conveniently leaking that he wanted Albert and never believed Martin was the answer and now D. Preemptively questioning his QB so that if Tannehill fails it can be pinned on a situation he was forced into.

The guy has faltered at his own job yet seems to find scapegoats to prolong his tenure in Miami. So again, I have no problem with him doing what is in the best interest of the team, especially at the most important position, but I hate the way he seems to be positioning himself to be free of blame should things go south. "Oh I was saddled with a bad GM, oh I didn't have a QB I could trust, oh I didn't get my left tackle of choice even though I gave Martin a free pass to the job, how dare you guys question how we run and design a game plan...oh how could you blame me for Miami's lack of success," that is what this soap opera surrounding him sounds like.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:43 pm 
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The final note I'll add to this is I hope this report is completely wrong or blown out of proportion by La Canfora. It would be consistent with his covering of the Dolphins over the last month.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:52 pm 
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Quote:
Young Qb challenging the aging vet is one thing. Young QB being challenged by journeyman vet is another.


Exactly right ... but then again this is the Miami Dolphins.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:29 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
It's kind've funny though how Philbin/Ireland don't know what they're doing - accept for drafting/starting Ryan Tannehill right?


Who has said Ireland and Philben's decisions were all bad? That's twisting the truth to support your argument.


It's not actually. You guys do very little to convince anyone that the decision was right to begin with with the way you harp on Philbin's lack of ability to develop players or ability to scout them in the first place.

The fact that we're having this discussion to begin with is a joke. You guys keep selling the same recycled scrap heap. It's every body else Dave. Every year. Every regime. Only difference is you think him being drafted in the top of the first round changes anything. He gets all the credit when we beat Pitt and NE but is absolved of blame in every loss. Sorry man, save that crap.

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Last edited by Rock Sexton on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:34 pm 
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jammer wrote:
The final note I'll add to this is I hope this report is completely wrong or blown out of proportion by La Canfora. It would be consistent with his covering of the Dolphins over the last month.


Either way man I care more about this team than I do about the well being of Tannehill or Moore. I wonder where allegiances are when it comes to these QB situations. Some guys seem to be bigger Tanny fans than Dolphin fans. I'm supposed to get wild over 3900 yards and a paltry YPA and TD/INT ratio in a passing league and when our offense never ran the ball. OK.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:56 am 
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Rock,it has been this way for just about forever. Tannehill is still in the honeymoon stage & as our starting QB he will get alot of free passes. It was like that for Pennington and even Henne until they were done here. Even AJ Feeley was deemed as a QB who could take us to that next level for a little while. I will say this however , Tannehill more than any of them in my opinion can be the real deal & just the topic of this thread is why we are in such trouble. The dysfunctions of the front office have been exposed & all the gab cannot sit well to a guy like Tannehill. Like I have been saying, I think this guy can win a super bowl ... I just hope its not with the Raiders.
On another note though , the opinions by most here have become more realistic. In the past all the boneheadness of the front office would have been excused. Excuses would have been made & the rose colored glasses along with the kool aid would have been plentiful. This has not been the case here for quite some time now. It shows how much this board has progressed as well as how much the franchise has regressed.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:14 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Sorry man, save that crap.


Dave, I am pretty sure this is the type of stuff you were referring to in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10745

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:34 am 
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Rich wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
Sorry man, save that crap.


Dave, I am pretty sure this is the type of stuff you were referring to in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10745


Nah, his opinion is ok. It wasn't personal. He just didn't agree with me and that is really ok.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:59 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Either way man I care more about this team than I do about the well being of Tannehill or Moore. I wonder where allegiances are when it comes to these QB situations. Some guys seem to be bigger Tanny fans than Dolphin fans. I'm supposed to get wild over 3900 yards and a paltry YPA and TD/INT ratio in a passing league and when our offense never ran the ball. OK.


Not sure I would question anyone's Fins loyalty here. People just wish they had the franchise QB play back. And yes, Tannehill's shown a lot over his first two years to keep people optimistic. Can't blame people for wanting to give the guy that critical third year.

He's not elite, at least not yet, and to me that isn't a big deal. Honestly, that 2011 offense would have been perfect for him (minus Colombo and D. Thomas). Heck, you have that team with 2013 Tannehill as trigger man and Miami is battling for the AFC East title. He wouldn't be fearful of taking shots to Marshall (versus checkdown Chad) but he'd still be careful enough not to try too much (the streaky gunslinger Moore).

Does it mean he is elite? Nope. Does it mean he cemented himself as QB for the next 10 years? Nope. But it lets him be Joe Flacco - making plays and having a nice support system to help him through the lumps.

So what is best for the team? I still say hitting the reset button was but that isn't happening so make what you have work. Best thing we can hope for now is that Lazor stops the vanilla playcalling, Go/Go Go crap, and uses some of the receivers more creatively. Instead of a home run back maybe they should get a guy like Blount who can give them 20 carries, 4-5 per carry on a consistent basis.

As for Tannehill, I really don't know. I can't say his career is defined by anything yet. He had very good pocket presence his rookie year, and I don't believe that just goes away. We've seen him hit on some nice deep passes to everyone except Mike Wallace. Maybe all of that is corrected by better chemistry and a ton of off season work. Might be best for him to put in extra time with Wallace and Rishard Matthews who I think Phins Rock correctly predicts could be a huge target for Tannehill.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:46 am 
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Big Dave wrote:
Rich wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
Sorry man, save that crap.


Dave, I am pretty sure this is the type of stuff you were referring to in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10745


Nah, his opinion is ok. It wasn't personal. He just didn't agree with me and that is really ok.


Seems the same as calling someone's opinion stupid.

Your opinion is crap.

Your opinion is stupid.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:51 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
Nah, his opinion is ok. It wasn't personal. He just didn't agree with me and that is really ok.


Good. I have no reason to get personal with you.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:16 pm 
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-hello fellow dolphin fans, my first post here :yay:

I have nothing against Matt Moore, it's just I haven't seen anything good from him with the exception of one pass against the Jets two years ago. Competition is good, I just don't see it coming from him. He may be the worst practice quarterback I've ever seen. Not much Veteran help available this off-season either. Maybe we draft a mid-level second day quarterback for development reasons.

While Ryan was far from perfect last year I think it's fairly apparent the problem was in the trenches.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:32 pm 
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Ikema wrote:
-hello fellow dolphin fans, my first post here :yay:

I have nothing against Matt Moore, it's just I haven't seen anything good from him with the exception of one pass against the Jets two years ago. Competition is good, I just don't see it coming from him.


Welcome.

You didn't see anything good from him in 2011? Really? The guy was elected by his peers as the team MVP.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:04 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:

You didn't see anything good from him in 2011? Really? The guy was elected by his peers as the team MVP.

Good? Yes. A Qb that can lead a team to the promise land? Nope.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:23 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
Good? Yes. A Qb that can lead a team to the promise land? Nope.


Objectively speaking neither QB has.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:33 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Objectively speaking neither QB has.

Not what you ask.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:27 am 
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Big Dave wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
It's kind've funny though how Philbin/Ireland don't know what they're doing - accept for drafting/starting Ryan Tannehill right?


Who has said Ireland and Philben's decisions were all bad? That's twisting the truth to support your argument. I don't have a problem with any of the first round picks on Ireland's watch. In fact, I would say that he has had more first round success than any GM that we have had.

Code:
2008    1    Jake Long *    Offensive tackle    Michigan    
2009    25    Vontae Davis    Cornerback    Illinois    
2010    28    Jared Odrick    Defensive tackle    Penn State    [r]
2011    15    Mike Pouncey    Center    Florida    
2012    8    Ryan Tannehill    Quarterback    Texas A&M    
2013    3    Dion Jordan    Defensive End    Oregon    [s]



Rock Sexton wrote:
Sorry but this comes with the territory for the QB position. To absolve Tanny of any of the team's struggles last season is heresy.


Tannehill needs to continue to improve, but I will quote RotoWorld on this: "Unbelievable. Tannehill is the least of the Dolphins' problems and very arguably their biggest strength, so the notion of him losing his job is yet another reminder of the continued dysfunction in Miami." I think the problem with some of you is that Tannehill isn't Dan Marino. Don't let that one semi-deep pass that Moore completed against the Bills bewitch you . Tannehill had more deep passes completed last year than Moore had in 2011 behind a better offensive line. Of course, when you figure Tannehill played 3 more games and had more attempts, it probably balances things out.

Pro Football Focus credited Tannehill with 3 sacks last season. They credited Matt Moore with 7 in 2011 behind a better OL.

Youall are barking up the wrong tree. There are indeed holes in Tannehill's game: he has problems with the deep pass (perhaps we now have an OC that will actually practice the deep pass), he doesn't step up into the pocket (maybe if the OL would give him more time and better pocket protection he could improve this part of his game), and he doesn't use his athleticism to buy more time (I don't have an answer for that one).

Look at what he can do: quick release, makes quick decisions, put the ball in a tight area that only his receivers can catch, very accurate 10-20 yards, hits his receivers in stride, and is the best quarterback in his class to throw on the run. Let's not forget that Sherman expect Tannehill to carry the Dolphins offense without an offensive line or running game. You couldn't ask for a better prospect. I am concerned about the last two games as much as any of you, but let's be honest, the entire team took a nosedive in those last two games. If it were just Tannehill then I would be more concerned about him, but when the entire team takes a vacation playing for their lives against AFC East rivals, then it goes beyond the players.

Good Post Dave. :yay:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:44 pm 
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Just thought of this. If Philbin was so confident in Moore why didn't he use him against the Jets in the final game of the season with the playoffs on the line?

Could have used the injury excuse with Tannehill. He couldn't step into throws and his accuracy was bad. It wouldn't be a performance benching in the sense that the team lost faith in Tannehill. That type of situation is why you want a competent backup.

It would be pretty easy to blame the weather and the last minute gunslinging for Moore's interceptions in Buffalo so that shouldn't have been a deterrent. He had a nice deep pass to Hartline.

So again I ask, is this really a Tannehill vs Moore issue? Heck, you could trade Tannehill March 11th for a late 1st/early 2nd rounder and use that to nab your young guy of the future. Everyone would then say at least their being honest and proactive about the QB position.

Or is it Philbin seeing the writing on the wall with the overall state of the team and preemptively buying himself leniency with Ross?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:01 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Could have used the injury excuse with Tannehill. He couldn't step into throws and his accuracy was bad.


To use facts to make an argument when pointing out why a QB struggled is heresy!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:01 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Ikema wrote:
-hello fellow dolphin fans, my first post here :yay:

I have nothing against Matt Moore, it's just I haven't seen anything good from him with the exception of one pass against the Jets two years ago. Competition is good, I just don't see it coming from him.


Welcome.

You didn't see anything good from him in 2011? Really? The guy was elected by his peers as the team MVP.


2011 in football years that was a LONG LONG LONG time ago... he has looked like crap every chance he has been given since Rock..

Come on now I like Matt too.. My God I wanted him to be good...it's just not working out that way..


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:18 am 
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randylvc wrote:
2011 in football years that was a LONG LONG LONG time ago... he has looked like crap every chance he has been given since Rock..

Come on now I like Matt too.. My God I wanted him to be good...it's just not working out that way..


He did a pretty nice job stepping in to beat the Jets in 2012 and I'll give him a pass for the Buffalo game this year as the conditions sucked.

I did myself a favor the other day and watched some videos of him. The guy can play. If he was given a fair shot to beat out Henne in 2011 I'm not sure Miami wouldn't have been a very competitive team that year and he might still be the starting QB. (man I wish Miami still had that roster as well)

I don't know how well he fits the Philbin offense because he's a risk taker, but I think he's better than a few starting QBs out there and could take a team to the playoffs. I'd still put my money on Tannehill beating him out for the job due to a superior skill set.


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