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 Post subject: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:59 am 
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So how do you guys think this will all play out?

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Coaches at the University of Missouri divided players into small groups at a preseason football practice last year for a team-building exercise. One by one, players were asked to talk about themselves — where they grew up, why they chose Missouri and what others might not know about them.

As Michael Sam, a defensive lineman, began to speak, he balled up a piece of paper in his hands. “I’m gay,” he said. With that, Mr. Sam set himself on a path to become the first publicly gay player in the National Football League.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/10/sport ... .html?_r=0

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:15 am 
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I think a team WILL draft him...showing how "progressive" the NFL is in today's market. As far as ability, who know - I don't?

I think the biggest problem will be with the players and how they deal with knowing their teammate is gay. Plus, I Am sure some fans will not like this as well. The Media WILL love it...big stories etc. without any question. The media will also paint it as a VERY positive thing!

Personally, I am sick of peoples' religion, race, sexual deals, being more important than anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:26 am 
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Attention seeking, great he's gay!


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:55 am 
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Honestly, all of it seems to be scripted. If it makes him feel better to announce and can perform better without the weight of a secret then great.

The only analogy I can think of is the perception of athletes in the '40s, '50s and early '60s where they were good American citizens and roles models. Behind the scenes several of them were womanizers, boozers and not model citizens. This is going to be an NFL produced love fest to show they are beyond judgment of sexual orientation and this is a new age...when behind closed doors I'm sure a lot of comments will be made and many guys will have a problem with it.

We're all human and we all have our biases and dislikes. There are going to be players, coaches, execs, trainers, etc. who don't approve of homosexuality. Its reality.

The concern for me is whether a team will judge his play or his status when it comes down to the 53 man roster. Let's say he isn't worthy of a roster spot, gets cut and then argues it was done because of his sexuality. How do you prove otherwise? Or what about the reverse. What if he is kept on the roster for fear of accusations should he be released? Could go even further. What if he becomes such a media distraction that a team cuts him when he could be an asset to the team?

I just wish the politics wasn't mixed with the fun of the game.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:42 pm 
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Omar Kelly ✔ @OmarKelly RT @BlkSportsOnline BSO: Michael Sam Having Fun Dancing Shirtless at Gay Club (Video) http://bit.ly/1cq9gkN > That didn't take long.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:17 pm 
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Sounds like a 1st rounder for San Fran.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:34 pm 
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This is what happens when you bring attention to yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:47 pm 
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Rich wrote:
That didn't take long.

Obviously someone has been sitting on this.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:55 pm 
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Well from Sam's perspective it's better he do it than some hack journalist trying to land a big story. I can't imagine how many were foaming at the mouth to out the kid.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:49 pm 
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The way i see it the problem is more about his character than sexual preference. It didn't have to be a big deal but instead he made the announcement that got everything stirred up and caused contraversy. If I'm a team that was thinking of drafting Sam then I would be less likely now because of the circus that hes bringing. The only reason for him to come out like this is because he wants the attention

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:21 pm 
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Steve Zissou wrote:
The way i see it the problem is more about his character than sexual preference. It didn't have to be a big deal but instead he made the announcement that got everything stirred up and caused contraversy. If I'm a team that was thinking of drafting Sam then I would be less likely now because of the circus that hes bringing. The only reason for him to come out like this is because he wants the attention


I have hard time buying into that thesis because he hurts his own draft stock coming out now. You really think he values attention over the ability to earn with a career?

IMO it's more likely someone in the media was ready to run the story without his permission.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:27 pm 
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I agree with Rock. This sounds pressed. I personally hope he is drafted based on talent and teams don't drop his grade based on his sexuality. In today's society, it's almost a non-issue. He's a decent pass rusher and if he does drop, some team will make out with an easy pick.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:59 pm 
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Didn't hurt his stock at all. Almost every single team came out with a supportive statement. If anything it helped him because some team will take him regardless to show they are progressive. This was a calculated, smart business move on his part to guarantee he gets drafted.

Again, the problem here is how a team judges his talent. Are they afraid to not draft him because they look bad? Do they not cut him for fear of backlash? He has the ace in the hole of "they cut me because I'm gay" if he really wants to play it and the media will buy it.

I don't envy his situation and I think he's got guts to go public with it, but I really think this was a well thought out plan and he is aware that the narrative will be written for him by an eager press. It would just be better if we focus on his football talents whether than his bedroom choices.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:02 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Didn't hurt his stock at all. Almost every single team came out with a supportive statement. If anything it helped him because some team will take him regardless to show they are progressive. This was a calculated, smart business move on his part to guarantee he gets drafted.

Again, the problem here is how a team judges his talent. Are they afraid to not draft him because they look bad? Do they not cut him for fear of backlash? He has the ace in the hole of "they cut me because I'm gay" if he really wants to play it and the media will buy it.

I don't envy his situation and I think he's got guts to go public with it, but I really think this was a well thought out plan and he is aware that the narrative will be written for him by an eager press. It would just be better if we focus on his football talents whether than his bedroom choices.


How can it not hurt his stock Jammer? Now there will inevitably be teams questioning whether they want to bring him aboard because of potential media distraction, where-as before they were just scouting him based on talent and how he conducted himself.

On the Lebetard radio show they discussed how he's already slid almost 70 spots.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:58 pm 
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It's a very risky proposition for any team that drafts him, because of what has already been said about the circus that will accompany him, especially in his first year. Beyond that, the potential for fallout if he's cut or benched (as previously mentioned). Basically, where you might have been willing to reach for a guy like this a little early based on his potential as a player, now you only take him if he's at a position of need and you have him rated a LOT higher than anybody else on the board. This is not so much about his sexuality now, it's about politics, and money. Welcome to the NFL, kid.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:30 pm 
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You said....foaming at the mouth :haha


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:38 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Didn't hurt his stock at all. Almost every single team came out with a supportive statement.
And? Owners give coaches public support, then turn around & fire them. What is said for public perception is not what is said behind closed doors.

jammer wrote:
If anything it helped him because some team will take him regardless to show they are progressive. This was a calculated, smart business move on his part to guarantee he gets drafted.
He was going to get drafted regardless. He will be drafted lower now.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:33 am 
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Rich wrote:
So how do you guys think this will all play out?


He has two first names.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:45 am 
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I think it's possible he goes undrafted now.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:23 am 
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Rich wrote:
Omar Kelly ✔ @OmarKelly RT @BlkSportsOnline BSO: Michael Sam Having Fun Dancing Shirtless at Gay Club (Video) http://bit.ly/1cq9gkN > That didn't take long.


To me, this is the problem. Being gay isn't the issue on the field for management. How will players feel about having an openly gay player in the locker room, showers, the tub, etc. i wouldn't draft him due to team chemistry issues.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:02 am 
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Gareth Thomas says his teammates accepted him. Don't underestimate the ability of people to accept different things nowadays.

I think it is a good thing he let his future team know what is going on before they draft him. I do think he will slip a little in the draft, but I think coming out gives him a better chance of ending up on a team that will accept him.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:07 am 
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Steve Zissou wrote:
The way i see it the problem is more about his character than sexual preference. It didn't have to be a big deal but instead he made the announcement that got everything stirred up and caused contraversy. If I'm a team that was thinking of drafting Sam then I would be less likely now because of the circus that hes bringing. The only reason for him to come out like this is because he wants the attention


He didn't make it a big deal. He simply came out ahead of the story that would have inevitably come out because 100 teammates and 20 coaches already knew, which means people outside of Missouri already knew. Better to be upfront about it than to let rumors linger.

For all the talk about Manti Teo being a weirdo, he was still drafted high.

The only reason he wasn't drafted higher was because of his poor game against Alabama.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:22 am 
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Dphins4me wrote:
jammer wrote:
Didn't hurt his stock at all. Almost every single team came out with a supportive statement.
And? Owners give coaches public support, then turn around & fire them. What is said for public perception is not what is said behind closed doors.

jammer wrote:
If anything it helped him because some team will take him regardless to show they are progressive. This was a calculated, smart business move on his part to guarantee he gets drafted.
He was going to get drafted regardless. He will be drafted lower now.


You are downplaying this way too easily. This isn't about some head coach or GM getting a false vote of confidence. You are talking about the first openly gay player and how the media wants this narrative to be an inspirational story. And this goes beyond the sports media. Every channel, newstation, newspaper, magazine, some politicians, etc. will demand to see this guys succeed to prove a point and break barriers. NFL owners know this and the smart ones know there is profit in it for their organizations. The NFL knows the profit as well. Sam is now and will be a media sensation.

On your second point, can you prove that? All I've read is that he was a 3rd day pick at best and some had him as an undrafted free agent. He's a guy without a position in the NFL who will have to be a special teams ace, yet that is not his current role. How does that guarantee draft status?

Now he brings media love with him so an owner might say this will increase ticket sales and make us look great among the masses so draft him early and give our team the badge of honor.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:36 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
How can it not hurt his stock Jammer? Now there will inevitably be teams questioning whether they want to bring him aboard because of potential media distraction, where-as before they were just scouting him based on talent and how he conducted himself.

On the Lebetard radio show they discussed how he's already slid almost 70 spots.


I'm repeating a bit of what I just posted but I'll bet 4 or 5 owners see the profit for themselves by attracting this media attention. I know its cliche, but the NFL is a business and this guy is now a way to drive up ticket sales for people who will want to support him and jersey sales for people who support what he stand for. Not sure how you can deny that.

Seriously, how do they know how far he has slid? This is no longer about his talent but what he represents and the progressive step forward that people want to see. He went from a potential late round at best pick to probably a 3rd rounder, and will receive a thunderous applause when his name is called.

He has guaranteed his ticket to the NFL, and I applaud him for his business smarts.

If you disagree I suggest reexamining recent history. Think of how fast the media pounced and pumped up the stereotypical racist, homophobic, bullying character of Richie Incognito. Few if any tried to see what more was to the story, they just loved that a prehistoric meathead was the enemy and this sensitive, intelligent, new age Stanford athlete should be the type embraced in an NFL lockeroom. The attention then swung to the overall NFL culture being stuck in a narrow minded, crude, barbaric, alpha male world that needed some serious sensitivity training.

Outside of the Miami media and maybe a blurb on ESPN, have you seen any major discussion or segments on the morning talk shows, news networks or anywhere describing Martin as a hypocrite, drug abuser, head case or the fact that mommy is a big time work environment attorney? No, they got their narrative and are good to go. darn the full the truth.

Similar idea here in that they simply want this guy to succeed so they'll make sure the pressure is on to do so. I'm not arguing it is right or wrong, it is just the reality of the situation.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:52 am 
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I have hard time buying into that thesis because he hurts his own draft stock coming out now. You really think he values attention over the ability to earn with a career?

IMO it's more likely someone in the media was ready to run the story without his permission.



Quote:
He didn't make it a big deal. He simply came out ahead of the story that would have inevitably come out because 100 teammates and 20 coaches already knew, which means people outside of Missouri already knew. Better to be upfront about it than to let rumors linger.

For all the talk about Manti Teo being a weirdo, he was still drafted high.

The only reason he wasn't drafted higher was because of his poor game against Alabama.


Good posts Rock & Rich. There is little doubt that he will have his challenges, but IMO, it is HIS life and HIS decision to come out and be up front. I watched a highlight reel and he certainly seems to have some talent, the question will be which NFL team will draft him and I believe one will take a shot with him and then he will be the one that has to work through those challenges, but if he produces, he will be on the field in the NFL.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:58 am 
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Rich wrote:
He didn't make it a big deal.


Well actually he did. The St. Louis Dispatch sat on this story for over a year at his request. Instead of showing gratification and granting them the interview he kind of stabbed them in the back for their loyalty and went to bigger media outlets.

Plus, this story was already out to almost all scouts and personnel guys. So he didn't beat the story, he just found a good way to use it for his advantage.

I'm not knocking the guy, just highlighting how smart he was in what he pulled off. He's going to make a lot of money, be an icon and guarantee at least somewhat of an NFL career for himself.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:06 am 
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You could be right on some points Jammer, but I get the feeling that he came out to spare the potential repercussions of people finding out on their own and coming at him. At least he prepared himself and IMO, he will make his money by being a good football player on the field, sure in the beginning could he grab some extra attention, sure, but even though I have no real idea what his personal motives are, I think this guy just felt it was the right thing for him to do and however he decides to release this to whichever press, is his choice.

This topic will no doubt capture a ton of attention now, but I bet it settles down over time. I have no opinion other than it is his life and not my place to judge and I wish him well. He is one of thousands of football players trying to make it at the top level. If he plays like his highlight reel, I think he has a good chance to make a team.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:20 am 
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jammer wrote:
Rich wrote:
He didn't make it a big deal.


Well actually he did.


Only the media and the public can make something a big deal.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:34 am 
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Man I just don't think this helped him at all. There wasn't enough to gain from it. So what if someone in the media comes out with the "story"? Then at least its the media creating contraversy, not Sam. All his team mates new at Missouri & it wasn't a big deal.

If he is confronted about it then he simply answers "Yes. But I am a football player first." because if he owns it then it isn't a big story & he can move on.

Now it appears that hes made it into a big deal & teams view him, not just his sexuality, as a problem to deal with. His draft projection has dropped 70 spots already. Some teams won't be interested in drafting him at all

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:34 am 
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Rich wrote:
Only the media and the public can make something a big deal.


Agreed. But did he call a press conference and say "look here is the situation, deal with it" or did he select the largest media outlets, give a big interview Chris Connelly and opt to put himself in the national spotlight?

I feel as though I'm coming across as knocking the guy or being negative and it is not my intent. But making this announcement prior to the combine seems a bit calculated, not simply a matter of beating someone to the punch. His team, coaches, NFL scouts, the St Louis Dispatch all knew and could have said something at any time. Heck, the Dispatch could have broken during the Martin saga to create a buzz about how the NFL will now handle an openly gay athlete.

He used what was perceived as a negative to his advantage.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:37 am 
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Heres a big question;

Would the Dolphins see drafting Sam as a good PR move?

He could be gas on our dysfunctional fire. Or he could be a bold statement that the franchise uses to be progressive.

& would anyone here want him in Miami?

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:28 am 
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jammer wrote:
Rich wrote:
Only the media and the public can make something a big deal.


Agreed. But did he call a press conference and say "look here is the situation, deal with it" or did he select the largest media outlets, give a big interview Chris Connelly and opt to put himself in the national spotlight?

I feel as though I'm coming across as knocking the guy or being negative and it is not my intent. But making this announcement prior to the combine seems a bit calculated, not simply a matter of beating someone to the punch. His team, coaches, NFL scouts, the St Louis Dispatch all knew and could have said something at any time. Heck, the Dispatch could have broken during the Martin saga to create a buzz about how the NFL will now handle an openly gay athlete.

He used what was perceived as a negative to his advantage.


It will still probably drop his draft stock. The NFL is a good ole boy network and many of them will be tentative to bring in this type of distraction... unless of course he puts up some sick numbers at the combine...

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:30 am 
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Steve Zissou wrote:
Man I just don't think this helped him at all. There wasn't enough to gain from it. So what if someone in the media comes out with the "story"? Then at least its the media creating contraversy, not Sam. All his team mates new at Missouri & it wasn't a big deal.


It probably didn't help him in the short term, but I think it does in the longterm.

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His draft projection has dropped 70 spots already. Some teams won't be interested in drafting him at all


Until he runs a 4.5 at the combine....

Too early to be projecting.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:39 am 
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Rich wrote:
It will still probably drop his draft stock. The NFL is a good ole boy network and many of them will be tentative to bring in this type of distraction... unless of course he puts up some sick numbers at the combine...


Call me an optimist, but I'm just seeing the opposite. I just picture the team that gets him will have a new crowd of fans showing up to buy tickets to support him and that his jersey will be high seller. That owner and Goodell are seeing dollar signs and image improvement, especially if it is a team that struggles for support. Imagine Jaguars gear being worn in every city by people support Sam and want to cheer him on.

The media wants this and some team will oblige.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:44 am 
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jammer wrote:
Call me an optimist, but I'm just seeing the opposite. I just picture the team that gets him will have a new crowd of fans showing up to buy tickets to support him and that his jersey will be high seller. That owner and Goodell are seeing dollar signs and image improvement, especially if it is a team that struggles for support. Imagine Jaguars gear being worn in every city by people support Sam and want to cheer him on.

The media wants this and some team will oblige.


Maybe.

It depends on the culture of the team/culture of the city.

Certainly I see it more likely in Seattle or San Francisco than in Dallas or Houston.

Again, his measureables will have an impact on his draft stock, but this will as well.

I think it was wise of him to bring it out now so it's not a shock on draft day. If the story came out on draft day, it would have a bigger impact on his draft stock due to the shock factor than it will coming out now.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:00 am 
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Rich wrote:
I think it was wise of him to bring it out now so it's not a shock on draft day. If the story came out on draft day, it would have a bigger impact on his draft stock due to the shock factor than it will coming out now.


Agree 100%. If I can sit here and think of this stuff I'm quite certain owners and GMs are already doing so. They now have time to weigh the pros and cons, and someone will conclude this is a good opportunity.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:08 am 
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Rich wrote:
Steve Zissou wrote:
Man I just don't think this helped him at all. There wasn't enough to gain from it. So what if someone in the media comes out with the "story"? Then at least its the media creating contraversy, not Sam. All his team mates new at Missouri & it wasn't a big deal.


It probably didn't help him in the short term, but I think it does in the longterm.

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His draft projection has dropped 70 spots already. Some teams won't be interested in drafting him at all


Until he runs a 4.5 at the combine....

Too early to be projecting.


Good points. It does depend on how he handles things from here. If he is too loud n proud & is pushing his agenda then teams will stay away.

If he stays the course as a football player & shows his priority then people will be cheering for him, & what jammer is saying will be true too.

He's put himself in this position. & if he can't prove his character won't be an issue then he has hurt himself & his career.

On a side note, I just spent some time in Texas and Oklahoma & I found people surprisingly tolerant of homosexuality there

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:03 pm 
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Wouldn't teams rather he came out before the draft than after?

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:18 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Rich wrote:
I think it was wise of him to bring it out now so it's not a shock on draft day. If the story came out on draft day, it would have a bigger impact on his draft stock due to the shock factor than it will coming out now.


Agree 100%. If I can sit here and think of this stuff I'm quite certain owners and GMs are already doing so. They now have time to weigh the pros and cons, and someone will conclude this is a good opportunity.


You're right from a PR standpoint. & i get it, take the sting out of their punch by trying to say it before they do. But I can't help but think if Sam didn't want this to be a big issue then he didn't need to say anything. If he really wants to be treated the same as everyone else then he can let his game talk and face the attacks as they come. Answer the questions and prove its not a discussion worthy topic.

To me, & I'm sorry if this is wrong or offensive, its the trendy thing to do for high profile athletes to come out. This doesn't break down barriers but creates chaos. Its comparable to a football player admitting he has dirty fetish that a lot of the league isn't ready to accept. & the would be nothing to gain from that sort of announcement because nobody wants to hear that.

I was pissed when Buster Olney tried to compare this to Jackie Robinson. Thats complete BS! This is nothing like facing that adversity. I believe the proper way to get past boundries is to stop highlighting the differences & not look for opportunities to discuss it in the media because that keeps people from moving on. Sam has made himself a celebrity & for most of his career people will want him to talk about it publicly

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:48 pm 
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Steve Zissou wrote:
its the trendy thing to do for high profile athletes to come out.


This is the first time I've ever heard of the first person doing something described as following a trend.

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