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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:02 pm 
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Steve Zissou wrote:
I was pissed when Buster Olney tried to compare this to Jackie Robinson. Thats complete BS! This is nothing like facing that adversity.


Agree here. Robinson had little support behind him and didn't have a media looking to make him a star. He went it alone and with real threats against him.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:13 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Steve Zissou wrote:
its the trendy thing to do for high profile athletes to come out.


This is the first time I've ever heard of the first person doing something described as following a trend.


Hahaha got me! I should've said "high profile people and athletes". There was a basketball player who came out last year & he gained a lot of attention for it. & Frank Ocean used it to get famous & sell records.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:29 pm 
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Steve Zissou wrote:
Rich wrote:
Steve Zissou wrote:
its the trendy thing to do for high profile athletes to come out.


This is the first time I've ever heard of the first person doing something described as following a trend.


Hahaha got me! I should've said "high profile people and athletes". There was a basketball player who came out last year & he gained a lot of attention for it. & Frank Ocean used it to get famous & sell records.


Jason Collins? A bench warmer who wasn't and still isn't on a team?

Nah, this is different.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:48 pm 
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Dumbledore didn't come out until after he was dead.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:55 pm 
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jammer wrote:
You are downplaying this way too easily. This isn't about some head coach or GM getting a false vote of confidence. You are talking about the first openly gay player and how the media wants this narrative to be an inspirational story. And this goes beyond the sports media. Every channel, newstation, newspaper, magazine, some politicians, etc. will demand to see this guys succeed to prove a point and break barriers. NFL owners know this and the smart ones know there is profit in it for their organizations. The NFL knows the profit as well. Sam is now and will be a media sensation.
These guys are educated men. They know the correct thing to say to avoid public backlash. Public support, damnation behind the scenes. I would almost guarantee that somewhere in the NFL these words have been uttered. "I do not want that faggot on my team" Men generally do not want it in their face. I'm cool with gay men, know several. However, it turns my stomach to see both with women & men to see them making googly eye at each other. Call me homophobic, but its who am I. I guess I can use that too.

Why would team want this distraction for a marginal talented player? If it was Jadeveon Clowney then its another story. However, we are talking about a player who might be a Day 3 pick. Not someone who will be missed.

Here is a coach trying to get his team/players ready for a season being ask about a player no one would be asking about if it wasn't for his declaration of being homosexual. Being a distraction to his players. Not going over with him

I give you one name. Kerry Rhodes.

jammer wrote:
On your second point, can you prove that? All I've read is that he was a 3rd day pick at best and some had him as an undrafted free agent. He's a guy without a position in the NFL who will have to be a special teams ace, yet that is not his current role. How does that guarantee draft status?
Always enjoy when someone shares THEIR opinion & then you share YOUR opinion & they ask you to prove it. Nothing funnier.

Neither of us will know how this effected his draft status. We will never know where he would have been drafted prior to declaring his like men. Could have been higher, could be the same or could have been lower. Never will know.

jammer wrote:
Now he brings media love with him so an owner might say this will increase ticket sales and make us look great among the masses so draft him early and give our team the badge of honor.

We all saw how quickly teams tired of the Tebow circus brought. This will be the similar IMO & I cannot prove it. As you said. Sam is a marginal talent for the NFL. Teams generally do not bring a circus to town for marginally talented players. Generally you have to be special. Its why TO continued to be signed, but as soon as his talent did not meet the circus he brought. Out of the NFL.


Last edited by Dphins4me on Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:01 pm 
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Could care less if he is gay or not, one of the best athletes I've known in my life turned out to be gay. If you need him draft him and let him do his job. He's projected to go in the 3rd or 4th round, not a bad place to look for pass rushing depth. I think we'll be looking at depth on the OL in those rounds. Funny thing is while I write this they are doing a two for Tuesdays and Queen is playing Fat Bottom Girls.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:46 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
Always enjoy when someone shares THEIR opinion & then you share YOUR opinion & they ask you to prove it. Nothing funnier.


No, you said he was going to be drafted regardless. That is a statement, not an opinion. I asked you to prove that because every analyst I've read basically said he is a 3rd day pick at best with some saying he won't be drafted. So where are you getting this insight that he'll be drafted regardless?

Nothing funnier than someone changing the story to try and deliver a zinger.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:39 pm 
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How can the SEC defensive player of the year not even get drafted? You mean to tell me if he is sitting there in the 7th no one takes him? That's crazy.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:46 pm 
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"I endured so much in my past: seeing my older brother killed from a gunshot wound, not knowing that my oldest sister died when she was a baby and I never got the chance to meet her," he said. "My second-oldest brother went missing in 1998, and me and my little sister were the last ones to see him ... my other two brothers have been in and out of jail since eighth grade, currently both in jail. Telling the world I'm gay is nothing compared to that." - Michael Sam

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:50 pm 
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rodneyfaile wrote:
How can the SEC defensive player of the year not even get drafted? You mean to tell me if he is sitting there in the 7th no one takes him? That's crazy.


I'm not a draft analyst, can't answer that. I'm only repeating what I've read. He's an undersized DE who might fit as a situational pass rusher or special teams guy.

Why aren't Johnny Manziel or Teddy Bridgewater almost sure locks to go to the QB needy Texans? Both have ridiculously good tape and are Heisman candidates.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:39 pm 
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He'll bust out or be a distraction for the team...no thanks. Also, putting him in a locker room with a bunch swinging dicks is like putting me in the cheerleaders dressing room, sorry....just saying. Dudes turn him on like girls turn us on.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:50 pm 
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jammer wrote:
No, you said he was going to be drafted regardless. That is a statement, not an opinion.

I asked you to prove that because every analyst I've read basically said he is a 3rd day pick at best with some saying he won't be drafted. So where are you getting this insight that he'll be drafted regardless?
Its a statement based on my opinion. Do I really have to write IMO he will be drafted regardless? And why am I having this stupid conversation because you do not understand the difference here.

IMO He was to good in college for a team not to take a late flyer on.

BTW, You said it "Didn't hurt his stock at all." Can you prove it? You made a statement based on an assumption that teams being supportive means they are not going to downgrade him lower now & that it did not hurt his draft status. When in fact you have no clue if it hurt or helped his draft status.

jammer wrote:
Nothing funnier than someone changing the story to try and deliver a zinger.

If this made any sense then maybe I would comprehend the lame attempt to humor yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:29 pm 
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In honor of Dave's request for better behavior on the boards I'll stop before this goes any further. I suggest you reexamine your tone and the way you approach things as well.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:17 pm 
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jammer wrote:
In honor of Dave's request for better behavior on the boards I'll stop before this goes any further. I suggest you reexamine your tone and the way you approach things as well.

My tone is fine. You are the one that started this, so do not lay it on my door step.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:27 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
jammer wrote:
In honor of Dave's request for better behavior on the boards I'll stop before this goes any further. I suggest you reexamine your tone and the way you approach things as well.

My tone is fine. You are the one that started this, so do not lay it on my door step.


You made a declarative statement and I asked you to prove it. Instead of saying I meant it as an opinion and reminding me I did something similar you had to mock my approach and claim nothing is funnier. It leads to problems. I caught myself beginning to commit the same problems and stopped before I made it worse.

So again, reconsider your tone and the way you approach things. That's not a shot, just a reminder that how you think you come across isn't how others always interpret it.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:26 pm 
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jammer wrote:
You made a declarative statement and I asked you to prove it. Instead of saying I meant it as an opinion and reminding me I did something similar you had to mock my approach and claim nothing is funnier. It leads to problems. I caught myself beginning to commit the same problems and stopped before I made it worse.
I made a statement. Nothing large or controversial & nothing attacking you, just disagreeing with what you had said. My statement which was simply based on my opinion. I gave credit that it would be taken as my opinion on his draft status. You threw stones. I was like, hey wait a minute. Don't throw stones at me while previously doing the same thing.

The difference is. I knew what you were stating was simply your opinion. I did not ask for proof or anything else. I just disagreed.

My opinion & your opinion were just that. My opinion was not satisfactory for you. You took the old MB tactic of can you prove it what you are saying. Do you have inside information? Knowing full well it was just an opinion.

jammer wrote:
So again, reconsider your tone and the way you approach things. That's not a shot, just a reminder that how you think you come across isn't how others always interpret it.

There is not anything one can do on how one take you.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:57 am 
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rodneyfaile wrote:
How can the SEC defensive player of the year not even get drafted? You mean to tell me if he is sitting there in the 7th no one takes him? That's crazy.


That will be the true test to see how far the NFL has really come.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:59 am 
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Makchell wrote:
He'll bust out or be a distraction for the team...no thanks. Also, putting him in a locker room with a bunch swinging dicks is like putting me in the cheerleaders dressing room, sorry....just saying. Dudes turn him on like girls turn us on.


That's what makes this a tough situation. I can understand other players being uncomfortable.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:54 am 
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Rich wrote:
Jason Collins? A bench warmer who wasn't and still isn't on a team?

Nah, this is different.


Well I think its comparable. Making the announcement, to me, isn't a football decision or a business move. Sam & Collins want to be known as the gay guy who plays sports, not the pro athlete that happens to be gay.

Looking at percentages in America you have to figure there already are and has been gay athletes in sports &, if so, they haven't said anything. & theres two reason; 1 they're scared to admit it. &/or 2 they don't want it to matter because its not as important as achieving a successful, professional career.

& if they're scared . . well its probably because they don't want to be treated differently. Sam made his decision & for the rest of his career, good or bad, hes going to be treated differently. & thats what he wants.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:03 am 
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Makchell wrote:
He'll bust out or be a distraction for the team...no thanks. Also, putting him in a locker room with a bunch swinging dicks is like putting me in the cheerleaders dressing room, sorry....just saying. Dudes turn him on like girls turn us on.


HI-YOOOO!

Thats hysterical but very accurate. Look, if you're an NFL player right now you're about as red blooded as males come. You know how men think. & if you put a woman in that locker room for the season, almost every guy is going to sneak a peek at some point because thats what they're in to.

I'll bet theres a couple hundred players that hope Sam's not drafted to their team because they're afraid of him looking LOL & theres probably 10-20 homophobic players that are already thinking about how they will threaten him if they catch him looking.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:39 am 
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Steve Zissou wrote:
Rich wrote:
Jason Collins? A bench warmer who wasn't and still isn't on a team?

Nah, this is different.


Well I think its comparable. Making the announcement, to me, isn't a football decision or a business move. Sam & Collins want to be known as the gay guy who plays sports, not the pro athlete that happens to be gay.

Looking at percentages in America you have to figure there already are and has been gay athletes in sports &, if so, they haven't said anything. & theres two reason; 1 they're scared to admit it. &/or 2 they don't want it to matter because its not as important as achieving a successful, professional career.

& if they're scared . . well its probably because they don't want to be treated differently. Sam made his decision & for the rest of his career, good or bad, hes going to be treated differently. & thats what he wants.


He'll be treated based on his performance when it is all said and done. If he is the next coming of Lawrence Taylor, he'll get much respect and his sexuality won't be a factor to most.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:55 am 
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Makchell wrote:
He'll bust out or be a distraction for the team...no thanks. Also, putting him in a locker room with a bunch swinging dicks is like putting me in the cheerleaders dressing room, sorry....just saying. Dudes turn him on like girls turn us on.


I feel the same way, Mak, although I might have said things in a little bit different way.

:)

Athletes are young guys in a fraternity-like atmosphere loaded with a lot of money. Their hormones are on the UP scale. The media will be following him around into the gay bars every week, put their videos online, and we are to expect that the guys in the showers are just going to ignore him when he comes in because it is professional. Yeah ---- right.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:57 am 
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Makchell wrote:
He'll bust out or be a distraction for the team...no thanks. Also, putting him in a locker room with a bunch swinging dicks is like putting me in the cheerleaders dressing room, sorry....just saying. Dudes turn him on like girls turn us on.


The ones that will feel most uncomfortable will be the ones that are most tempted.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:04 am 
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Mak & Dave,

Yeah, I guess it may bother a few players in the locker room if Woody Wood Pecker is walking around at attention.

On the field he was the SEC co-defensive player of the year and his highlight reel shows talent.

I just get the feeling there will be a team willing to draft him and I wouldn't be surprised if he goes in that 3rd round, but his style of play will have to be a fit, but he does have a motor and you can always use depth at the pass rush.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:32 am 
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Yeah, I guess it may bother a few players in the locker room if Woody Wood Pecker is walking around at attention.

LOL!!!



On the field he was the SEC co-defensive player of the year and his highlight reel shows talent.

This is good. At least he isn't afraid to break a nail and get dirty...well, he does get dirty. J/K Best of luck to him.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:18 am 
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I wonder if the NFL has thought this through completely. If a guy likes what he sees and makes a pass could a claim sexual harassment be made. Defense would be what do you expect when you put a guy who is attracted to guys in the same room with a bunch of naked guys. It is not his fault but the NFL/Team for putting him in that situation and not providing different accommodations.

Will probably never happen but then I never thought the Martin thing would happen either.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:45 pm 
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Rich wrote:
The ones that will feel most uncomfortable will be the ones that are most tempted.

Disagree. Just because someone does not want to see it or be around it, does not mean they have secret desires.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:59 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
I wonder if the NFL has thought this through completely. If a guy likes what he sees and makes a pass could a claim sexual harassment be made. Defense would be what do you expect when you put a guy who is attracted to guys in the same room with a bunch of naked guys. It is not his fault but the NFL/Team for putting him in that situation and not providing different accommodations.


See that's what I find sort've odd about all of this. Inherently Sam is going to be attracted to at least some of the guys in there .... I mean you're talking about athletes in pinnacle shape. In the same regard, would they let a woman shower in there with the guys? The answer is no. But isn't this a similar situation?

Albeit, correct me if I'm wrong don't female reporters get into the locker room some times and guys walk around with their junk swinging everywhere?

This is definitely uncharted territory and I doubt it will be a seamless transition with it being the first openly active gay player.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:01 pm 
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I would think Sam already being open to his college team-mates, he knows how to act in a locker room to not call (un-wanted) attention to himself, by "checking out" team-mates. I think if anything, he will go out of his way to not "look" at anyone.

Personally I don't want him on our team, because of the media circus that I am sure will come with him when/if he makes an NFL team.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:03 pm 
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How can the SEC defensive player of the year not even get drafted? You mean to tell me if he is sitting there in the 7th no one takes him? That's crazy


Because most of his sacks and big plays came against non sec teams except the Gators and we all know their OL blows. He's undersized and disappeared playing "good" teams and yes, he's gay, sorry but it's the truth and I'm not know to be politically correct.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:53 pm 
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Finhead34 wrote:
On the field he was the SEC co-defensive player of the year and his highlight reel shows talent.


I'm trying to figure out how a SEC co-defensive POY is rated a 3rd round pick anyways ... and this was before he came out as gay.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/play ... ichael-sam

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:32 pm 
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I'm trying to figure out how a SEC co-defensive POY is rated a 3rd round pick anyways ... and this was before he came out as gay.

Cause most of his sacks came against inferior competition and he is undersized.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:44 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
I'm trying to figure out how a SEC co-defensive POY is rated a 3rd round pick anyways ... and this was before he came out as gay.

Cause most of his sacks came against inferior competition and he is undersized.


He's not undersized to play OLB in a 34.

He's projected in the third round because he's a one year wonder.

Again, let's see his numbers after the comebine and we'll talk.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:47 pm 
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Kony Ealy is the real NFL talent in Mizzou and he drew away the attention of the offensive lines from Sam.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:55 pm 
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MissHell wrote:
Personally I don't want him on our team, because of the media circus that I am sure will come with him when/if he makes an NFL team.


Don't worry about it. The defensive line is an obvious strength of the team, and with a strong need at offensive line (and RB), you won't see Miami drafting this guy. I personally hope he goes to the Jets, it would be SO fitting.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:37 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
I'm trying to figure out how a SEC co-defensive POY is rated a 3rd round pick anyways ... and this was before he came out as gay.

Cause most of his sacks came against inferior competition and he is undersized.


So, I am looking at his game-by-game stats and do see 9 sacks against the terrible teams, and this was done in the first 7 games of the season. In the last 7 games of the season he had 2.5 sacks.

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http://espn.go.com/college-football/pla ... ichael-sam

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:48 pm 
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Sacks can be misleading.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:10 am 
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Boy I hate to see all of you arguing about this.
We don't even know what team he's going to play on.
We don't know how other players are going to react.
I don't know how many players are out there, refs. coaches etc., but some how, some way it's going to be a big deal.
The press will make sure of that.

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Michael Sam
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:08 am 
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Phinfever Legend
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Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:59 pm
Posts: 5117
Here is how I evaluate the guy from a talent standpoint. He's a "tweener" (DE/OLB) with good pass rush abilities. The draft site I visit rates him as a 3rd to 4th round pick (before all of this came out). This means the kid will likely go sometime after the 4th round, or potentially not at all because of his statements.

From the Dolphins perspective, Koa Misi had a down year. I think the team will give him one more season to prove he can be a long term outside linebacker. This Sam kid is built more like an outside linebacker than a defensive end size wise. I think the Dolphins could use him in pass rush situations and on special teams right away.

If he goes undrafted, it might be worth taking a flyer on the kid and inviting him to training camp. If the distraction proves to be too much, you simply cut him. No harm, no foul.


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