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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:19 pm 
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I think it's pretty obvious that Angelo thinks very little of Ryan Tannehill. He rated him 6.3, gave rookie Mike Glennon the same grade, and rookie Geno Smith was rated 6.2. I posted the 6 quarterbacks from the 2012 draft, but you can see all of his QB evaluations at the following link.

http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/ ... nfl-season

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:02 pm 
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After what he said about my QB, I don't really give a f@#% about anything else he has to say. Former Bears GM? He definitely built something over there for sure...I'd rather have Ireland (minus the personal relations issues). "An athlete trying to develop into a QB"? Hey broski, the kid had the least amount of snaps at the position in college for a top 10 pick ever, and has only completed two NFL seasons. Your opinion is as worthless as your drafting, hence the word "former" GM.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:16 pm 
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Wow, that's a rough evaluation. Thought I was reading Jake Locker's evaluation.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:36 pm 
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Wow all of a sudden this guy is all over...


um last i checked during his time he damm near got his QB killed with a crap O-line he put together... recruited Jay (the same QB he just blasted in another post) and tore the bears Def apart...


if this guy is so good why didn't we hear about the gm offers he got this season?


my god i think reporters try way to hard to find someone who will say something they can get a rise out of...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:52 pm 
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I don't have sour grapes towards Angelo for his poor evaluation of Tannehill, but I will say that he has a poor draft record.

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bears ... t-history/

As far as QBs, he drafted Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton. Then he traded Orton, 2 first round picks, and a third round pick for Jay Cutler where there was a lot of tape on him. Then he criticized Cutler in his evalution of him:

"Has all the physical tools, but inconsistent in the clutch. Mostly due to a lack of poise. He’s not comfortable reading defenses and consequently locks onto a favorite or pre-determined target, that may or may not be the right choice. The less he’s asked to see the better he is. A better half field general, than a full field one."

For all you Matt Moore supporters, don't get too thrilled. He gave Moore and Henne the same score (5.8 grade).

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:38 pm 
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If you read each QB's review he is almost negative across the board outside of 4 or 5 guys. He makes anyone non-elite sound like garbage. I don't find it to be a useful or helpful article unless I'm dying to replace the current QB on my team


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:11 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
I don't have sour grapes towards Angelo for his poor evaluation of Tannehill, but I will say that he has a poor draft record.

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bears ... t-history/

As far as QBs, he drafted Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton. Then he traded Orton, 2 first round picks, and a third round pick for Jay Cutler where there was a lot of tape on him. Then he criticized Cutler in his evalution of him:

"Has all the physical tools, but inconsistent in the clutch. Mostly due to a lack of poise. He’s not comfortable reading defenses and consequently locks onto a favorite or pre-determined target, that may or may not be the right choice. The less he’s asked to see the better he is. A better half field general, than a full field one."

For all you Matt Moore supporters, don't get too thrilled. He gave Moore and Henne the same score (5.8 grade).


Turning this into a Matt Moore conversation because of Ryan's grade? Oh Dave.

I don't care what Jerry's track record is, he's spot on with that evaluation of Tannehill.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:08 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
I don't care what Jerry's track record is, he's spot on with that evaluation of Tannehill.


Not sure saying he's an athlete trying to be a QB is very accurate. That is like Tim Tebow/Kordell Stewart territory. Tannehill may have trouble with deep passes but otherwise he's pretty accurate and makes good decisions. That is a quarterback developing.

Tannehill couldn't make up for a crap line and zero running game. I think that is more a sign that he isn't and probably won't be elite, but from everything else we saw he can be a good QB. Heck, I think he needs to be more of an athlete at the position.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:16 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Not sure saying he's an athlete trying to be a QB is very accurate. That is like Tim Tebow/Kordell Stewart territory. Tannehill may have trouble with deep passes but otherwise he's pretty accurate and makes good decisions. That is a quarterback developing.

Tannehill couldn't make up for a crap line and zero running game. I think that is more a sign that he isn't and probably won't be elite, but from everything else we saw he can be a good QB. Heck, I think he needs to be more of an athlete at the position.


:yay:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:33 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Big Dave wrote:
I don't have sour grapes towards Angelo for his poor evaluation of Tannehill, but I will say that he has a poor draft record.

http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bears ... t-history/

As far as QBs, he drafted Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton. Then he traded Orton, 2 first round picks, and a third round pick for Jay Cutler where there was a lot of tape on him. Then he criticized Cutler in his evalution of him:

"Has all the physical tools, but inconsistent in the clutch. Mostly due to a lack of poise. He’s not comfortable reading defenses and consequently locks onto a favorite or pre-determined target, that may or may not be the right choice. The less he’s asked to see the better he is. A better half field general, than a full field one."

For all you Matt Moore supporters, don't get too thrilled. He gave Moore and Henne the same score (5.8 grade).


Turning this into a Matt Moore conversation because of Ryan's grade? Oh Dave.

I don't care what Jerry's track record is, he's spot on with that evaluation of Tannehill.


You're absolutely right, Tannehill won eight games because of his athleticism. It was pure athleticism that helped him throw for over 20 touchdowns and nearly 4,000 yards. There was absolutely zero IQ involved. Tannehill tanked our season, that's why we went 8-8. It had nothing to do with the stable of mediocre runningbacks who failed to crack 4.0 yards per carry as a unit, and an offensive line built of popsicle sticks that gave up a team record number of sacks (23 more than the previous season when Jake Long was the left tackle).

:hithead:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:51 am 
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:haha


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:08 am 
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wkloiber13 wrote:
You're absolutely right, Tannehill won eight games because of his athleticism. It was pure athleticism that helped him throw for over 20 touchdowns and nearly 4,000 yards. There was absolutely zero IQ involved. Tannehill tanked our season, that's why we went 8-8. It had nothing to do with the stable of mediocre runningbacks who failed to crack 4.0 yards per carry as a unit, and an offensive line built of popsicle sticks that gave up a team record number of sacks (23 more than the previous season when Jake Long was the left tackle).

:hithead:


I don't think that is what he was saying at all. He was just agreeing about Tannehill's pocket presence and inability to mask the problems of his other teammates. Again, I think that hints more at him being a Joe Flacco type than a future Tom Brady.

Angelo just came across as overly negative and laid it on a little think with his criticisms.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:03 am 
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wkloiber13 wrote:
You're absolutely right, Tannehill won eight games because of his athleticism. It was pure athleticism that helped him throw for over 20 touchdowns and nearly 4,000 yards. There was absolutely zero IQ involved. Tannehill tanked our season, that's why we went 8-8. It had nothing to do with the stable of mediocre runningbacks who failed to crack 4.0 yards per carry as a unit, and an offensive line built of popsicle sticks that gave up a team record number of sacks (23 more than the previous season when Jake Long was the left tackle).

:hithead:


Melodramatic much?

It's funny you mention the lack of run game in contrast with his "nearly 4,000 yards". Part of the problem was in fact dropping Tannehill back to pass too much so that yardage is a bit skewed to begin with. Dude was 7th in the league in attempts and a piddly 28th in Y/C and 27th in Y/A. His 24 TD's were in improvement over last year, but his INT's were still too high at 17.

You make Tanny sound like he's some cerebral QB out there and you seem to think that people (GM's, scouts, fans) are incapable of doing their own analysis on the player sans the O-line. I don't recall anything in Angelo's assessment saying that Tanny played with the best offensive unit in football. In fact he specifically said "protection is one thing, FEEL is another". That's been a major point of contention for those of us who see him nothing more than inconsistent right now.

All things considered if we had run the ball more and his pocket presence was a little better, my guess is those sack totals come down a bit. Instead we just had him heaving the ball like he was Drew Brees.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:56 am 
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It's so annoying. One week Rt looks like a true franchise QB and other weeks he looks like Henne. Either way, he needs to be more consistant or he's gone. I hate to say it (cause I want RT to be the franchise QB), but JA is right on. His feel in the pocket sucks, his deep ball sucks, and he holds the ball too long. He was 7th in attempts, so his yardage is skewed. TD/INT ratio is what it is. Some blame it on hail marys and "garbage time" but my thought is if you scored more TDs during the game, you wouldn't be in that situation to air it out at the end.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:20 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
It's so annoying. One week Rt looks like a true franchise QB and other weeks he looks like Henne. Either way, he needs to be more consistant or he's gone. I hate to say it (cause I want RT to be the franchise QB), but JA is right on. His feel in the pocket sucks, his deep ball sucks, and he holds the ball too long. He was 7th in attempts, so his yardage is skewed. TD/INT ratio is what it is. Some blame it on hail marys and "garbage time" but my thought is if you scored more TDs during the game, you wouldn't be in that situation to air it out at the end.


While I find him far too rigid as a QB evaluator, I think Omar Kelly is correct in saying Tannehill had great games (Indy, Pitt, NE), bad games (Buf 2nd, NY 2nd, NO) and a lot in the middle. The truth of his game is somewhere in the middle. He's good enough to help you win games but not enough to consistently take over games. I think he's shown he can reach that next level and with a decent supporting cast can take the team pretty far.

He'll get his 3rd year to prove it so trying to define him right now is kind of pointless. I don't think anyone will agree that he has peaked or hit his ceiling.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:45 pm 
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He'll get his 3rd year to prove it so trying to define him right now is kind of pointless. I don't think anyone will agree that he has peaked or hit his ceiling

I agree with this. There are too many variables agasint him whether it's coaching, no running game, Wrs dropping passes, and a a horrible OL to give up on him. This is a huge year for RT and I wouldn't mind drafting a QB.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:18 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
I wouldn't mind drafting a QB.


You look at Hickey's history and he grabbed Josh Freeman and Mike Glennon, two very big QBs. Have to wonder if David Fales is on his mind as a contingency plan.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:35 pm 
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You look at Hickey's history and he grabbed Josh Freeman and Mike Glennon, two very big QBs. Have to wonder if David Fales is on his mind as a contingency plan.

Also, Lazer worked wonders with Foles and he was a later rd pick. Garappolo anyone? Carr?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:45 pm 
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I would take Fales is if he slips to round 4.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:08 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
You're absolutely right, Tannehill won eight games because of his athleticism. It was pure athleticism that helped him throw for over 20 touchdowns and nearly 4,000 yards. There was absolutely zero IQ involved. Tannehill tanked our season, that's why we went 8-8. It had nothing to do with the stable of mediocre runningbacks who failed to crack 4.0 yards per carry as a unit, and an offensive line built of popsicle sticks that gave up a team record number of sacks (23 more than the previous season when Jake Long was the left tackle).

:hithead:


Melodramatic much?

It's funny you mention the lack of run game in contrast with his "nearly 4,000 yards". Part of the problem was in fact dropping Tannehill back to pass too much so that yardage is a bit skewed to begin with. Dude was 7th in the league in attempts and a piddly 28th in Y/C and 27th in Y/A. His 24 TD's were in improvement over last year, but his INT's were still too high at 17.

You make Tanny sound like he's some cerebral QB out there and you seem to think that people (GM's, scouts, fans) are incapable of doing their own analysis on the player sans the O-line. I don't recall anything in Angelo's assessment saying that Tanny played with the best offensive unit in football. In fact he specifically said "protection is one thing, FEEL is another". That's been a major point of contention for those of us who see him nothing more than inconsistent right now.

All things considered if we had run the ball more and his pocket presence was a little better, my guess is those sack totals come down a bit. Instead we just had him heaving the ball like he was Drew Brees.


You're right, that was a bit over the top (sorry about that). But I was trying to prove a point that I think you're being a bit overcritical of the kid. All things considered, he improved quite a bit this season. I think I saw somewhere that he finished top 12 in the NFL in completions, yards, and touchdowns. That means he's getting awfully close to being a top ten quarterback, which is a very nice change considering all of the poor quarterbacking we've seen over the past decade plus.

As far as Tannehill being an intelligent quarterback, he absolutely is. He had the second highest Wonderlic score coming out of college (behind only Luck). He's been learning NFL style offenses under under an NFL coach since he was a college freshman. I absolutely think he has what it takes "between the ears". I don't buy that athlete playing QB stuff for one minute. That kid has looked like a quarterback on the field from day one since he arrived in Miami.

Also, nobody is talking about it, but if you look at our season, Tannehill basically carried us the entire season. We lived and died each week on his performance. That is a heck of a lot to ask of a second year quarterback. Of all the young quarterbacks in the NFL, can you think of any player who did more with less? I could see an argument for Luck, but Luck wasn't playing behind that offensive line (and Tannehill beat Luck in Indy).

When it comes to the sacks, I think someone posted on another thread that Pro Football Focus only charged Tannehill with three sacks this season. That being the case, I really can't blame him much for the other 55 sacks the line were charged with. If anything, I feel that Tannehill doesn't hold on to the ball long enough (could be related to the number of sacks he was taking).

The run game to be honest with you had to do with a couple of things. I feel the first and biggest impediment to our run game was the offensive line. We simply weren't opening up the holes. I think that if we improve the line, you'll see Miller, Thomas, and Gillislee crack that 4.0 ypc mark. The second issue, was that we were playing from behind a lot. We started slow in a lot of games. This put us in situations where Tannehill basically had to sling it most of the game.

I 100% will agree with you that the kid needs to be pushed this season. It really is a make or break season for the team. If we don't keep moving forward, then it all could come crashing down. I think we all understand that our owner isn't afraid to push the restart button if we don't do better than 8-8. Long story short, 2014 is the year that Tannehill has to put all doubts to rest and prove he's the guy. Just being good isn't good enough. The kid has to prove he has the stuff to be great.

That said, try to cut him a little slack. He's developing just like he should. I don't think anybody will be surprised when Tannehill improves again in 2014 and the team takes another step forward.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:10 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
You're absolutely right, Tannehill won eight games because of his athleticism. It was pure athleticism that helped him throw for over 20 touchdowns and nearly 4,000 yards. There was absolutely zero IQ involved. Tannehill tanked our season, that's why we went 8-8. It had nothing to do with the stable of mediocre runningbacks who failed to crack 4.0 yards per carry as a unit, and an offensive line built of popsicle sticks that gave up a team record number of sacks (23 more than the previous season when Jake Long was the left tackle).

:hithead:


Melodramatic much?

It's funny you mention the lack of run game in contrast with his "nearly 4,000 yards". Part of the problem was in fact dropping Tannehill back to pass too much so that yardage is a bit skewed to begin with. Dude was 7th in the league in attempts and a piddly 28th in Y/C and 27th in Y/A. His 24 TD's were in improvement over last year, but his INT's were still too high at 17.

You make Tanny sound like he's some cerebral QB out there and you seem to think that people (GM's, scouts, fans) are incapable of doing their own analysis on the player sans the O-line. I don't recall anything in Angelo's assessment saying that Tanny played with the best offensive unit in football. In fact he specifically said "protection is one thing, FEEL is another". That's been a major point of contention for those of us who see him nothing more than inconsistent right now.

All things considered if we had run the ball more and his pocket presence was a little better, my guess is those sack totals come down a bit. Instead we just had him heaving the ball like he was Drew Brees.


You're right, that was a bit over the top (sorry about that). But I was trying to prove a point that I think you're being a bit overcritical of the kid. All things considered, he improved quite a bit this season. I think I saw somewhere that he finished top 12 in the NFL in completions, yards, and touchdowns. That means he's getting awfully close to being a top ten quarterback, which is a very nice change considering all of the poor quarterbacking we've seen over the past decade plus.

As far as Tannehill being an intelligent quarterback, he absolutely is. He had the second highest Wonderlic score coming out of college (behind only Luck). He's been learning NFL style offenses under under an NFL coach since he was a college freshman. I absolutely think he has what it takes "between the ears". I don't buy that athlete playing QB stuff for one minute. That kid has looked like a quarterback on the field from day one since he arrived in Miami.

Also, nobody is talking about it, but if you look at our season, Tannehill basically carried us the entire season. We lived and died each week on his performance. That is a heck of a lot to ask of a second year quarterback. Of all the young quarterbacks in the NFL, can you think of any player who did more with less? I could see an argument for Luck, but Luck wasn't playing behind that offensive line (and Tannehill beat Luck in Indy).

When it comes to the sacks, I think someone posted on another thread that Pro Football Focus only charged Tannehill with three sacks this season. That being the case, I really can't blame him much for the other 55 sacks the line were charged with. If anything, I feel that Tannehill doesn't hold on to the ball long enough (could be related to the number of sacks he was taking).

The run game to be honest with you had to do with a couple of things. I feel the first and biggest impediment to our run game was the offensive line. We simply weren't opening up the holes. I think that if we improve the line, you'll see Miller, Thomas, and Gillislee crack that 4.0 ypc mark. The second issue, was that we were playing from behind a lot. We started slow in a lot of games. This put us in situations where Tannehill basically had to sling it most of the game.

I 100% will agree with you that the kid needs to be pushed this season. It really is a make or break season for the team. If we don't keep moving forward, then it all could come crashing down. I think we all understand that our owner isn't afraid to push the restart button if we don't do better than 8-8. Long story short, 2014 is the year that Tannehill has to put all doubts to rest and prove he's the guy. Just being good isn't good enough. The kid has to prove he has the stuff to be great.

That said, try to cut him a little slack. He's developing just like he should. I don't think anybody will be surprised when Tannehill improves again in 2014 and the team takes another step forward.

P.S. I too would like to see us take some pressure off of Tannehill and get the ground game going. I think a more balanced attack would extend his career. At the rate he's taking sacks, he won't last ten years in the league. I think this kid has a bright future. I really hope it doesn't get ruined by a lack of protection (i.e. injury).


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:02 am 
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wkloiber13 wrote:
You're right, that was a bit over the top (sorry about that). But I was trying to prove a point that I think you're being a bit overcritical of the kid. All things considered, he improved quite a bit this season. I think I saw somewhere that he finished top 12 in the NFL in completions, yards, and touchdowns. That means he's getting awfully close to being a top ten quarterback, which is a very nice change considering all of the poor quarterbacking we've seen over the past decade plus.


Heck, no need to apologize. I find a lot of the criticism on Tannehill to be melodramatic. Tannehill did drop back to pass a heck of a lot, but he completed a lot of passes for a lot of yards despite having little time to pass the ball. How he completed 60.4% of his passes surprises me. Mentally he is pretty sharp and has a quick release. He has a command of the offense and improved in his decision-making, has a strong mind as he was not intimated by all the hits he took, and did not mind carrying the offense when there was no running game. You can't totally blame the backs they were constantly hit behind the line of scrimmage.

Has he shown us that he is a franchise quarterback? Not yet, but as you said he is showing good progress. I mean, how can he develop any pocket presence when he does not have a pocket to step into? How can he complete a deep pass when he doesn't practice it much in practice, and he is rushing his throws due to a folding offensive line?

I think you and I know his strengths and his weaknesses, and we do not expect him to be the next Dan Marino. I think year 3 will tell us a lot about Tannehill, and I am actually excited to see what he will do this year. I don't think people really realize how much he missed having Brandon Gibson in the slot. Look at how long it took for Andrew Luck to adjust losing Reggie Wayne.

I will quote a national media quote, "Unbelievable. Tannehill is the least of the Dolphins' problems and very arguably their biggest strength".

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:27 pm 
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No way Dave let's run him out of town before giving him any real chance to develop into a starting quarterback.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:54 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
You're right, that was a bit over the top (sorry about that). But I was trying to prove a point that I think you're being a bit overcritical of the kid. All things considered, he improved quite a bit this season. I think I saw somewhere that he finished top 12 in the NFL in completions, yards, and touchdowns. That means he's getting awfully close to being a top ten quarterback, which is a very nice change considering all of the poor quarterbacking we've seen over the past decade plus.


Heck, no need to apologize. I find a lot of the criticism on Tannehill to be melodramatic. Tannehill did drop back to pass a heck of a lot, but he completed a lot of passes for a lot of yards despite having little time to pass the ball. How he completed 60.4% of his passes surprises me. Mentally he is pretty sharp and has a quick release. He has a command of the offense and improved in his decision-making, has a strong mind as he was not intimated by all the hits he took, and did not mind carrying the offense when there was no running game. You can't totally blame the backs they were constantly hit behind the line of scrimmage.

Has he shown us that he is a franchise quarterback? Not yet, but as you said he is showing good progress. I mean, how can he develop any pocket presence when he does not have a pocket to step into? How can he complete a deep pass when he doesn't practice it much in practice, and he is rushing his throws due to a folding offensive line?

I think you and I know his strengths and his weaknesses, and we do not expect him to be the next Dan Marino. I think year 3 will tell us a lot about Tannehill, and I am actually excited to see what he will do this year. I don't think people really realize how much he missed having Brandon Gibson in the slot. Look at how long it took for Andrew Luck to adjust losing Reggie Wayne.

I will quote a national media quote, "Unbelievable. Tannehill is the least of the Dolphins' problems and very arguably their biggest strength".


We'll never fully find out what we have in Tannehill until we get a group out there that is capable of giving him at least mediocre protection. For me, it starts with firing Jim Turner. The man has done nothing to keep his job the past two years. If anything, his actions can be directly contributed to the bullying scandal that hurt our season.

When it comes to adding talent to the o-line. Some teams need new blood. This group needs a transfusion. Other than a couple of players like Pouncey, Gardner, Thomas, and Yeatman, the rest can go as far as I'm concerned. If we decide to keep Martin around (which I doubt), he can compete for the RT job, or sit the bench. But at the end of the day, I think we need at a bare minimum at least two significant free agents and two draft picks in the first three rounds to solve the kind of problems we have.


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