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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:57 am 
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Total Snaps: 339
Defensive Right End: 236 (69.6%)
Defensive Left End: 22 (6.5%)
Linebacker: 79 (23.3%)
Defensive Tackle: 2 (0.6%)

Heading into the draft, most analysts had Jordan pegged as a 3-4 outside linebacker, or even a Von Miller-like role in a 4-3 where he could play SAM linebacker in base packages while coming off the edge to rush the passer in sub packages. When the Dolphins moved up to take him at No. 3 overall, the speculation began as to Jordan’s best fit. Would he become a movable chess piece to offset New England’s matchup nightmares at tight end? Would he become the edge rushing presence the Dolphins have lacked opposite DE Cameron Wake?

The Dolphins initial plan was to use Jordan mostly as a pass rushing defensive end to complement Wake on passing downs, but his inconsistency combined with the emergence of DE Olivier Vernon limited Jordan’s opportunities. He dabbled in a stand-up linebacker role on passing downs, often showing the athleticism that had scouts drooling prior to the draft.

Pass Rushing

Grade: -1.8
Pass Rush Snaps: 206
Total Pressures: 24
Sacks: 2
Hits: 4
Hurries: 18
Pass Rushing Productivity: 9.2

Opportunities were scarce for Jordan who only rushed the passer at least 20 times in a game once, and it happened to be his best effort in Week 3 against the Atlanta Falcons. He abused left tackle Lamar Holmes on a number of occasions, including a pressure off the edge that lead to the game-clinching interception. His +3.7 pass rush grade was by far his best of the season, and it represented one of only four games in which he graded positively as a rusher. He was non-existent in a number of other games, including four in which he was completely shut out.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... on-jordan/

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:54 pm 
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Interesting article. Jordan certainly looks like a better fit at OLB if you want to get him on the field and take advantage of his athleticism. He seems like a liability at DE because of his trouble stopping the run. I would much rather see him protected by D linemen on run plays and flowing to the ball. On pass rushing downs, he can line up at end or be moved around and rush the passer. I would love or see Wake and Vernon at DE with Jordan also rushing from unpredictable LB slots.....

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:12 am 
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DJ is very athletic and a fluid athlete, but he lacks a lot of strength/leverage, my concern is will he be able to strengthen up as much as he needs to, when I watched his college tape I saw him get handled by TE's consistently, blocking that is, and the same troubling deficiency was evident at the NFL level, this is what also holds him back rushing the passer, fast isn't enough, it's always a combination of speed/strength, and he needs to get his strength much higher.

He had a shoulder injury last year which kept him from bulking up, lets hope that this year he can bulk up enough to be an impact player, which is what drafting 3rd overall kind of demands, or else he's unfortunately a bust.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:32 pm 
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I watched his college tape I saw him get handled by TE's consistently, blocking that is, and the same troubling deficiency was evident at the NFL level, this is what also holds him back rushing the passer, fast isn't enough, it's always a combination of speed/strength, and he needs to get his strength much higher.

He had a shoulder injury last year which kept him from bulking up, lets hope that this year he can bulk up enough to be an impact player, which is what drafting 3rd overall kind of demands, or else he's unfortunately a bust.


Bingo, that's the problem. We traded up for "potential" while other teams found starters in the later rds at LT (Saints) and LB (NE). I know the draft is a crapshoot, but every freaking pick isn't starting. BTW, welcome to the boards.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:46 pm 
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Finster wrote:
and the same troubling deficiency was evident at the NFL level


I'm not sure how you can deem the deficiency "evident" when he only played against the run on 87 snaps (certainly not a sizeable sample size by any means) and had an average grade in those 87 snaps.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:15 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I'm not sure how you can deem the deficiency "evident" when he only played against the run on 87 snaps (certainly not a sizeable sample size by any means) and had an average grade in those 87 snaps.


Nobody is singing his praises for the other side of the argument either.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:44 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
I watched his college tape I saw him get handled by TE's consistently, blocking that is, and the same troubling deficiency was evident at the NFL level, this is what also holds him back rushing the passer, fast isn't enough, it's always a combination of speed/strength, and he needs to get his strength much higher.

He had a shoulder injury last year which kept him from bulking up, lets hope that this year he can bulk up enough to be an impact player, which is what drafting 3rd overall kind of demands, or else he's unfortunately a bust.


Bingo, that's the problem. We traded up for "potential" while other teams found starters in the later rds at LT (Saints) and LB (NE). I know the draft is a crapshoot, but every freaking pick isn't starting. BTW, welcome to the boards.


The number three overall pick should not be based on potential. He needs to come in and be an impact starter from day one. His inability to get on the field (along with most of the 2013 draft class being in the same boat), is a big reason why Jeff Ireland is no longer the GM of the Miami Dolphins and may never get another front office job again.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:49 pm 
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TommyNoleFin wrote:
His inability to get on the field (along with most of the 2013 draft class being in the same boat), is a big reason why Jeff Ireland is no longer the GM of the Miami Dolphins and may never get another front office job again.


Dion Jordan's inability to get on the field is Ireland's fault, absolutely.

Because Ireland also drafted Olivier Vernon.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:03 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
and the same troubling deficiency was evident at the NFL level


I'm not sure how you can deem the deficiency "evident" when he only played against the run on 87 snaps (certainly not a sizeable sample size by any means) and had an average grade in those 87 snaps.


He was up against TE's a lot in the run game and he was handled nearly all the time, I think PFF is interesting, especially the stats, but I'm not a big believer in their "grading system", it's a lot of data input people judging what was pass or fail on a given play and they are not necessarily football experts so they might not know what is pass or fail, and there is no differentiating between a OT or a TE in their grading system, so for instance Wake was almost never against a TE on run plays to his side because that is suicide, TE's can't block him, so he is graded against mostly OT's while DJ was up against TE's probably more than 50% of the time (just on memory), so how does that grading system take account for that... it doesn't, that is 2 of the several problems that their grading system has.

So where I do think it's an interesting site, I take their grading system with a grain of salt, they had Tanne as the 7th best QB in the league if memory serves, that is simply not true at this point, and I did watch every single play of DJ's and imo he was awful against the run and was not close to average for a DE, again imo.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:12 pm 
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TommyNoleFin wrote:
Makchell wrote:
I watched his college tape I saw him get handled by TE's consistently, blocking that is, and the same troubling deficiency was evident at the NFL level, this is what also holds him back rushing the passer, fast isn't enough, it's always a combination of speed/strength, and he needs to get his strength much higher.

He had a shoulder injury last year which kept him from bulking up, lets hope that this year he can bulk up enough to be an impact player, which is what drafting 3rd overall kind of demands, or else he's unfortunately a bust.


Bingo, that's the problem. We traded up for "potential" while other teams found starters in the later rds at LT (Saints) and LB (NE). I know the draft is a crapshoot, but every freaking pick isn't starting. BTW, welcome to the boards.


The number three overall pick should not be based on potential. He needs to come in and be an impact starter from day one. His inability to get on the field (along with most of the 2013 draft class being in the same boat), is a big reason why Jeff Ireland is no longer the GM of the Miami Dolphins and may never get another front office job again.


Hey Tommy, how's it going, it's been a while, but I do agree with you and Makchell, I'm not a big believer in drafting projects at 3rd overall, and less of a believer in trading up for one, if I'm trading up to 3rd then I basically want a fire breathing dragon in return or the risk is just too high.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:37 pm 
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Finster wrote:
He was up against TE's a lot in the run game and he was handled nearly all the time


He played 87 snaps against the run, so how could he be up against TE's "a lot in the run game"? 87 snaps is nothing.

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So where I do think it's an interesting site, I take their grading system with a grain of salt


They shared their data with 5 NFL teams, those 5 NFL teams compared PFF's data to their own data and found it to be 99.8% accurate.

So either we take the analysis of NFL teams with a grain of salt as well, or PFF's analysis is pretty spot on.

Either way, I have still to find a better a better compilation of analysis anywhere else.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:46 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Rich wrote:
I'm not sure how you can deem the deficiency "evident" when he only played against the run on 87 snaps (certainly not a sizeable sample size by any means) and had an average grade in those 87 snaps.


Nobody is singing his praises for the other side of the argument either.


I'm not really sure what that means.

I do however recall, during the season, several people noting that Jordan was very effective at rushing the passer the few times he got in and wondering why we weren't figuring out how to get him in more. On at least two ocassions, his pressures late in games led to game clinching interceptions (against the Falcons and Colts).

Oregon's academic schedule along with Jordan's lingering shoulder injury prevented him from strength training and full participation, which along with Olivier Jordan's immense development, prevented him from seeing the field. Not his talent.

Let's not forget, the two surefire offensive tackles taken before him struggled their rookie seasons (one with season ending injury). Tackle is supposed to be the safest position to draft and these guys were supposed to come right in and be effective.

They sucked.

So did the guy taken after Jordan and so did the defensive end taken 6th overall. The defensive end taken 5th overall put up nice sack numbers, but he is another example of stats being misleading.

Actually, if you base it on their first year, the top 10 picks in the draft were pretty much a failure overall, so let's keep things in perspective.

No one will care about how Jordan was acquired and how he did his rookie year if he turns into the player he is expected to turn into.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:50 pm 
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Rich wrote:
which along with Olivier Jordan's immense development, prevented him from seeing the field. Not his talent.


Regardless of him leading the team in sacks, I vaguely remember PFF rating Vernon overall as a DL poorly, not even top 30. I agree with you on grading him out via the long term as last year's top picks had relatively miserable debuts.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:55 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Rich wrote:
which along with Olivier Jordan's immense development, prevented him from seeing the field. Not his talent.


Regardless of him leading the team in sacks, I vaguely remember PFF rating Vernon overall as a DL poorly, not even top 30. I agree with you on grading him out via the long term as last year's top picks had relatively miserable debuts.


Just another example of sacks being misleading. And we saw it with our own eyes. Vernon would disappear for stretches and then get a sack on a guy who Wake had flushed out in Vernon's direction.

Vernon had 11 sacks, but only 32 pressures. He was terrible against the run early in the season but got better as the season went on.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:19 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
He was up against TE's a lot in the run game and he was handled nearly all the time


He played 87 snaps against the run, so how could he be up against TE's "a lot in the run game"? 87 snaps is nothing.

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So where I do think it's an interesting site, I take their grading system with a grain of salt


They shared their data with 5 NFL teams, those 5 NFL teams compared PFF's data to their own data and found it to be 99.8% accurate.

So either we take the analysis of NFL teams with a grain of salt as well, or PFF's analysis is pretty spot on.

Either way, I have still to find a better a better compilation of analysis anywhere else.


What I meant was that of those 87 plays a lot of them were against TE's, he should win that match at least most of the time and he didn't.

What PFF shared with those NFL teams was stats, not their grading system.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:54 pm 
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if he turns into the player he is expected

If, if, if. That's the point. You don't trade up to #3 overall on if, if, if. Yes, you are right though, if he blows up, awesome, no one will care. We can only go by right now, this day, and he is a bust so far.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:14 pm 
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Finster wrote:
What PFF shared with those NFL teams was stats, not their grading system.


No, it was player participation and play by play analysis for each player.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:17 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
if he turns into the player he is expected

If, if, if. That's the point. You don't trade up to #3 overall on if, if, if. Yes, you are right though, if he blows up, awesome, no one will care. We can only go by right now, this day, and he is a bust so far.


You have to expect more from a 3rd overall pick than we have seen so far.
Until proven otherwise, he is disappointing, but I think it is too early to call him a bust.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:31 pm 
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I see people want to grade him as a number three pick but shouldnt we be comparing him to jamal fletcher or eddie moore lol
Jk but I think Jordon will be very good for us and the defense will be steller


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:18 pm 
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This is the argument against blindly picking the best player available..... what happens when you don't have a place to put him or don't know how to use him correctly??

It should be best player available, that fits the system, at a postiion of need.
And that's why so many GM's happen to believe the best player available just coincidentally happens to be a guy at a position they need.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:36 am 
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Finster wrote:
Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
and the same troubling deficiency was evident at the NFL level


I'm not sure how you can deem the deficiency "evident" when he only played against the run on 87 snaps (certainly not a sizeable sample size by any means) and had an average grade in those 87 snaps.


He was up against TE's a lot in the run game and he was handled nearly all the time, I think PFF is interesting, especially the stats, but I'm not a big believer in their "grading system", it's a lot of data input people judging what was pass or fail on a given play and they are not necessarily football experts so they might not know what is pass or fail, and there is no differentiating between a OT or a TE in their grading system, so for instance Wake was almost never against a TE on run plays to his side because that is suicide, TE's can't block him, so he is graded against mostly OT's while DJ was up against TE's probably more than 50% of the time (just on memory), so how does that grading system take account for that... it doesn't, that is 2 of the several problems that their grading system has.

So where I do think it's an interesting site, I take their grading system with a grain of salt, they had Tanne as the 7th best QB in the league if memory serves, that is simply not true at this point, and I did watch every single play of DJ's and imo he was awful against the run and was not close to average for a DE, again imo.


Don't get us started on PFF again. LOL


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:49 am 
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Not trying to make a statement regarding religion, just an analogy. Sports stats are kinda like the bible. People can read the same verse and interpret it completely different. PFF is not science, its just another religion.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:29 am 
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rodneyfaile wrote:
Not trying to make a statement regarding religion, just an analogy. Sports stats are kinda like the bible. People can read the same verse and interpret it completely different. PFF is not science, its just another religion.


That's a great analogy... except for the fact that PFF isn't about stats.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:54 am 
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PFF is just another tool. Jordan graded high when he played but obviously the coaches saw something else (which tells me he should have played more..lol).


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:19 am 
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Makchell wrote:
PFF is just another tool.


It is a tool, and no one is saying otherwise.

But it is a very credible tool (at least the NFL teams, agents and reporters who pay for their services think so). Is it perfect? No. No one has said this either.

Although some pretend that someone has said this and others keep calling it stats when it is not. A lot of people don't understand the work that goes into it both from time spent and from analysis done.

I can tell you it is extremely extensive.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:18 am 
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Can we ban the term "PFF" from Phinfever? I sincerely apologize for making this thread.

:hithead:

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