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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 7:13 am 
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Man, this rumor just will not go away. Where this is smoke ... I just find it hard to believe that we cannot use this guy. You just don't move away from pass rushing specialists and players that could be real a nightmare for quarterbacks. I just don't get it, and I hope it isn't true.

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6. Dion Jordan, DE/LB, Dolphins: Jordan has been connected to Graham in trade talks that reportedly went nowhere between the Eagles and Dolphins. Whether it's true or not, there is persistent speculation in league circles that Jordan is available for the right price because new general manager Dennis Hickey doesn't value him nearly as high as former boss Jeff Ireland did. It doesn't help that Jordan remains without an obvious position in the Dolphins' 4-3 defense.

Potential landing spots: Eagles, Colts, Jets, Saints, Titans


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200000 ... candidates

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:24 am 
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If Miami trades him, then they will continue the trend of making the wrong choice. Will not be surprised if Miami ends up giving him away just like they did Marshall.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 11:21 am 
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The possibility of it makes perfect sense, Hickey did not draft him, Hickey may be of the opinion that DJ isn't NFL star material and that he is more valuable now than he ever will be, if that was his opinion then I would agree with him, I don't think he's ever going to be a special player and by the end of this year you'd be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for him.

He got dominated by TEs in the run game in college and the trend didn't change at the NFL level, and he didn't get a lot of sacks in college, how often do pass rushing specialists come out of college with low sack totals, also low TFL totals, so he wasn't what you'd call "playing in the backfield", and there is a lot of talk about all the coverage he did in college but no #s to back that up, he had very avg college stats and for the life of me cannot understand why he was so highly touted.

If I could get a 1st for him I'd take it in a min, because imo this is the last time he'll be worth it, sad to say.

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 11:34 am 
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Finster wrote:
The possibility of it makes perfect sense, Hickey did not draft him, Hickey may be of the opinion that DJ isn't NFL star material and that he is more valuable now than he ever will be, if that was his opinion then I would agree with him, I don't think he's ever going to be a special player and by the end of this year you'd be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for him.

He got dominated by TEs in the run game in college and the trend didn't change at the NFL level, and he didn't get a lot of sacks in college, how often do pass rushing specialists come out of college with low sack totals, also low TFL totals, so he wasn't what you'd call "playing in the backfield", and there is a lot of talk about all the coverage he did in college but no #s to back that up, he had very avg college stats and for the life of me cannot understand why he was so highly touted.

If I could get a 1st for him I'd take it in a min, because imo this is the last time he'll be worth it, sad to say.


Perfect example of not watching tape and jumping to conclusions off the stat sheet. Players don't get a 3rd overall grade due to lazy scouting. The kid has talent, and played injured all last season out of his natural defensive scheme.

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 11:54 am 
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Players don't get a 3rd overall grade due to lazy scouting. The kid has talent, and played injured all last season out of his natural defensive scheme.



I agree. The question is not his talent, he has that, but will Miami utilize him and his strengths to maximize selecting him as the third player overall? I am not making a direct comparison, but he has IMO, Von Miller like traits at outside LB and he can get after the QB in a hurry. EAST, he absolutely played hurt last season and all through the year I don't believe his shoulder was ever 100%.

I am excited to see him out there healthy and just hope the staff uses him correctly.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 12:03 pm 
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Most agreed that Jordan was a better prospect than Anthony Barr, and alot of analysts are saying Barr should have a great NFL future.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 3:33 pm 
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Even if it were true, we couldn't possibly get any comparable value in a trade

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 3:35 pm 
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Also, Dion was coming in with a shoulder that had surgery. Not being able to lift and get stronger certainly did not help him last year.

He is coming into this year completely healthy, and should be very hungry.

As I recall, Miami was suppose to be trading Mike Wallace also. Neither has happened yet and I would hope this would not happen.

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 4:17 pm 
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Hopefully he is healthy, heavier and stronger this season. It would be great to be able to rotate him into the line up more often with Olivier and Wake.


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 6:51 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Finster wrote:
The possibility of it makes perfect sense, Hickey did not draft him, Hickey may be of the opinion that DJ isn't NFL star material and that he is more valuable now than he ever will be, if that was his opinion then I would agree with him, I don't think he's ever going to be a special player and by the end of this year you'd be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for him.

He got dominated by TEs in the run game in college and the trend didn't change at the NFL level, and he didn't get a lot of sacks in college, how often do pass rushing specialists come out of college with low sack totals, also low TFL totals, so he wasn't what you'd call "playing in the backfield", and there is a lot of talk about all the coverage he did in college but no #s to back that up, he had very avg college stats and for the life of me cannot understand why he was so highly touted.

If I could get a 1st for him I'd take it in a min, because imo this is the last time he'll be worth it, sad to say.


Perfect example of not watching tape and jumping to conclusions off the stat sheet. Players don't get a 3rd overall grade due to lazy scouting. The kid has talent, and played injured all last season out of his natural defensive scheme.


I actually watched all the tape I could on DJ and came to the same conclusion, thats how I know he got dominated by TEs, thats what I saw watching the tape, and the stats tell the story I watched, he didn't make a lot of plays, that is a fact, and when you watch him in college you see a guy that almost made plays, didn't get there in time but almost, and that usually doesn't translate at the NFL level, imo he is another Vernon Gholston, a player drafted on physical specs alone.

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 9:49 pm 
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Oregon did not use Dion purely as a pass rusher, as he had the ability to drop into coverage as well. Something Vernon Gholston could never do and a comparison that is not a good one.

Big year for Dion for sure though.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 12:59 am 
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I really cant see the vernon golston comparison at all. Dion came to oregon as a WR and has 4 inches on vernon. Dion had 40 more tackles at Oregon and 30 more solo tackles he flies all over the field while golston only excelled in pass rushing situations and never went into coverage. and at 6'7" jordan is so much more explosive. the 20 yard shuttle is for quickness and change of direction and jordan had a 4.35 despite being 4 inches taller than golston who ran a 4.40
He has the body and physicality of a jason taylor, NOT vernon gholston. does he have the desire and work ethic of taylor remains to be seen.


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 1:00 am 
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also I dont buy all this stuff that he needs to be heavier. jason taylor played at 245 and was just fine. Jordan needs to play at whatever weight he feels the best suits his game, not what everyone else thinks. Length and good hand placement beats weight every day of the week


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 5:03 am 
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phinsfansc wrote:
Oregon did not use Dion purely as a pass rusher, as he had the ability to drop into coverage as well. Something Vernon Gholston could never do and a comparison that is not a good one.

Big year for Dion for sure though.


Gholston also shot up due to what he did at the Senior Bowl.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:07 am 
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For those continuing to live in Fantasyland... trading Dion Jordan would be an 8 figure cap hit.

Drop it already.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 8:23 am 
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Quote:
Vernon Gholston,


Finster, I respect your opinion, but a Vernon Gholston comparison? This kid was basically injured all of last season, if he is used right, Jordan can become an impact player on defense. Gholston was a huge flop and I sure hope Dion doesn't end up in the same breath as that guy.


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 8:39 am 
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Finhead34 wrote:
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Vernon Gholston,


Finster, I respect your opinion, but a Vernon Gholston comparison? This kid was basically injured all of last season, if he is used right, Jordan can become an impact player on defense. Gholston was a huge flop and I sure hope Dion doesn't end up in the same breath as that guy.


Vernon Gholston was a one trick pony. He had speed. That's it.

Jordan has shown the ability to cover elite tight ends and bring pressure off the edge.

A good defensive coordinator finds a role for him.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 12:03 pm 
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In the limited snaps I watched him play, he would've had 15 sacks easy as a starter. Not sure why Coyle has him on the bench. When asked last year, it had to do with stopping the run; however, in the film I saw, he was rarely out of position and held his own at the LOS. Not sure what Coyle is missing but his sorry defense makes me think it is more him than Jordan.


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 12:09 pm 
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When was the last time a player was traded during the summer?

I still wish they tried having Jordan beat out Wheeler. Maybe I'm wrong but he seems more like a linebacker than edge setting defensive end.


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 5:27 pm 
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The kid showed a lot of hard work and dedication in the offseason. Why would they cut this?

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Dolphins second-year DE Dion Jordan is up to 265 pounds. Jordan weighed in at 248 at the Combine two Februaries ago. Dolphins beat writers observed that it looks like Jordan took an "air pump" to his arms and shoulders over the winter. At this time last year, Jordan was rehabbing a shoulder injury which didn't allow him to work out. He's 100 percent healthy now and has been at the Dolphins facility for over a month. The Dolphins are expecting a big sophomore leap from last year's No. 3 overall pick.

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:08 pm 
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Manhattan wrote:
also I dont buy all this stuff that he needs to be heavier. jason taylor played at 245 and was just fine. Jordan needs to play at whatever weight he feels the best suits his game, not what everyone else thinks. Length and good hand placement beats weight every day of the week


Jason Taylor didn't get owned when playing against the run. Jordan can play at what ever weight it takes to be solid in run defense or he isn't getting on the field. Who knows maybe he will be much better this year at the same weight with a healthy shoulder.


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 6:54 am 
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Jordans biggest fault is that he is an Ireland guy. Use him right & if he is healthy he will be a difference maker. If Philbin & co. are still so anal with their Ireland power struggle feud , do trade him & let him have a decent career elsewhere.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 7:54 am 
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bobby0112 wrote:
Jason Taylor didn't get owned when playing against the run.


In his first few years he didn't get owned, but it was a weakness in his game that he had to work on. Sports writers wrote about it his first couple of years. I didn't see it myself back then.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:04 am 
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bobby0112 wrote:
Jason Taylor didn't get owned when playing against the run.


He did early in his career...

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:52 am 
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Rich wrote:
...

Jordan has shown the ability to cover elite tight ends and bring pressure off the edge.

A good defensive coordinator finds a role for him.


I agree with this completely.


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:05 am 
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Rich wrote:
bobby0112 wrote:
Jason Taylor didn't get owned when playing against the run.


He did early in his career...


That isn't true, he had normal difficulties that any DE can have but he got that squared away early in his rookie year thgen he became the starter and was actually very good against the run, early in his career that was his strength, passrushing is what took him a couple years to get.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:14 am 
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AQNOR wrote:
Rich wrote:
...

Jordan has shown the ability to cover elite tight ends and bring pressure off the edge.

A good defensive coordinator finds a role for him.


I agree with this completely.


The problem for me is very simple, a player you trade up to 3rd overall to get should not need a "good D coordinator" to "find a roll" for him.

I continue to ask the same question about DJ, if he didn't produce at the college level, why am I supposed to believe that he will produce at the NFL level, a higher level of competition, for the vast majority of players their per game production goes down from college not up, extremely rare for it to be the other way.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:23 am 
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Finster wrote:
Rich wrote:
bobby0112 wrote:
Jason Taylor didn't get owned when playing against the run.


He did early in his career...


That isn't true, he had normal difficulties that any DE can have but he got that squared away early in his rookie year thgen he became the starter and was actually very good against the run, early in his career that was his strength, passrushing is what took him a couple years to get.


You're wrong. His first couple of seasons, Jason Taylor was not good at the point of attack against the run. His weight was always brought up as the issue.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:29 am 
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Finster wrote:
The problem for me is very simple, a player you trade up to 3rd overall to get should not need a "good D coordinator" to "find a roll" for him.


Every player needs a role. You don't just wander around aimlessly on the field and all of a sudden produce.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:15 am 
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Most of these guys have talent, so yes, it's up to coaches to get the best out of them. We we sould be DUMB to trade him at this point with his cap hit and "potential".


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