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 Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up 
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
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No, of course not. What happened in 2010 by the way...?

No Lebron , No bandwagon jumpers.

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Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:54 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
FINesse wrote:
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No, of course not. What happened in 2010 by the way...?

No Lebron , No bandwagon jumpers.


Regardless of when I started rooting for the team, I'm a South Florida native. The "bandwagon" label is completely null. They're my hometown team, and I am an all around S. Fla guy.I don't root for any other team outside of Palm Beach, Broward, Miami Dade County. If anything it's called being a fair weather fan, which obviously doesn't hold much truth being that my 'Fins fan hood began during their worst era in its history. Still a fan, always will be.

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Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:48 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
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One of the biggest names in the NFL from last season has faded into obscurity. Indeed, Jonathan Martin has become so irrelevant that no one really noticed that he missed three weeks of offseason workouts due to mononucleosis.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... with-mono/



I wonder if he should have just drunk some gatorade and got back out there?


Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:28 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
swerve13 wrote:
Miami wouldn't coast to the finals every year if they had to play in the west. Too many pitfalls to trip you up.


It was only two seasons ago that the top teams in the East were as good as the top teams in the West and Miami still made it to the finals. Same thing for the season before that as the Bulls had the best record in the league in 2011.

Also, Miami does relatively well against Western Conference teams. The only team that really gives Miami problems is San Antonio. They usually do well against the Clippers, Memphis and the Trailblazers and they dominated the Thunder in the Finals two years ago.

The East was down this season, but in years past they've had 4-5 teams that were contenders when Derrick Rose was healthy and the Celtics were still together.

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Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:12 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
TommyNoleFin wrote:
Mark Jackson said it best, "The great ones have to find a way to tell their body Not now. After the game." He couldn't do it.


Lebron wanted to go back in the game, Spo wouldn't let him.

And Michael Jordan asked to be taken out of a Finals game against the Jazz in 1998 because of cramps.

Does that mean we should stop considering Jordan great?

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Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:14 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
FINesse wrote:
The Heat coast to the finals in the east. Whoever comes out of the west is a bit battle worn & bruised. The west is a dog fight. Another reason why I think the Heat have the edge. In the east the regular season does not mean a thing , Miami proved that by giving home court to Indiana.
While Lebron still might be the best player in the league ... the other "teams" in the west would overcome him & the Heat being in the finals would not be the lock it is now while they are in the east.


You're looking at one season in a vacuum.

What about in 2010 when the Bulls had the best record in the league or in 2011 when the East playoff teams had a better cumulative record than the West playoff teams and you had the Celtics, Knicks, Bulls and Pacers all slated as contenders along with the Heat?

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Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:17 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
well the Mavericks almost beat the Spurs in that playoff series a month ago, and the Heat couldn't even hang with the Spurs in this finals series. West is too good.

There were 2 teams in the East that had 50 or more wins this year and 7 teams in the West.


Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:48 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
I think the Heat just ran into a better team with an elite coach who knew enough to give his guys just enough minutes through out the playoffs so they would not run out of gas in the finals. They really came close to sweeping them. I was very surprised as I had the Heat to win. Talk about building through the draft ... the Spurs are the poster child for that. What a franchise from top to bottom. Imagine a big 3 all from the draft.
Will be interesting to see if Pat Riley could get down on his knees once again to see if his stars will take less so he can sign guys like Anthony to once again have a strangle hold on the East.
But Wade was exposed & lets face it his health is an issue & Bosh is a nice role player. Their bench was non existant & while Lebron had his points he was contained & alot of those points was when the Heat were well behind. And its clear the Heat will go as far as Lebron can take them.
BTW ... Lebron stays, there is no way he will want to be scrutinized again for leaving a team.

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Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:27 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
swerve13 wrote:
well the Mavericks almost beat the Spurs in that playoff series a month ago, and the Heat couldn't even hang with the Spurs in this finals series. West is too good.

There were 2 teams in the East that had 50 or more wins this year and 7 teams in the West.


Yes, but it is inaccurate to say that the Heat has won two championships and been to four NBA Finals because they are in a weaker east. The East was only significantly weaker this season and it was stronger only two seasons ago.

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Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:59 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
5 of the 15 players currently listed on the Spurs roster were drafted by them. But of those 5 they include the big three. Kawhi Leonard was drafted by another team but soon after traded to SA.


Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:42 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
The East doesnt have any depth Rich, never does. West playoffs are always deep. Besides those old Celtics teams with Pierce/Garnett and the Bulls when Rose was actually healthy, there is never much there to talk about.


Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:43 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
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Many basketball fans are wondering why the Western Conference is so much stronger than the Eastern Conference this season. The truth is that the West has always been a stronger conference than the East, going back to the Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal glory days.
The West is deeper, stronger and has better all-around athletes than the East.
While there are plenty of arguments for either side, the fact remains that the Western Conference has won an astonishing 10 of the last 13 NBA Finals.
"Half of those 10 went to the Lakers who are about as big a powerhouse in the NBA as there ever was," said Ramapo junior Arseniy Leontyev. "The West is the stronger conference mostly because no one likes a powerhouse. All the teams in L.A.'s conference see them contend every year and strive to knock them off every season."
However, over the past few years, the Eastern Conference has made some sort of resurrection, with the return to prominence seen in teams like the Boston Celtics, Miami Heat, Washington Wizards, Toronto Raptors and the Brooklyn Nets. However, the West is still the class of the NBA.
The most intriguing part about this discussion is not whether the West really is better, but why?


http://www.ramaponews.com/news/view.php ... ominance-O

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The superstar power of the Western Conference has also been superior to that of the East.
Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal, two future Hall of Famers, won three championships together for the Lakers. Bryant won two more championships with the Lakers, as well as Pau Gasol after O'Neal's departure. Gasol is another one that will go down as one of the best seven footers in the history of the game.
Fans can't forget about the old dog Tim Duncan, who may be the greatest power forward to ever play the game.
The West also boasts one of the best sixth men to come off the bench with Argentinean shooting guard Manu Ginobili of the San Antonio Spurs. His close friend, French point guard, Tony Parker joined the Spurs and the team won a second title in 2003. Duncan and his fellow Spurs went on to winning two more championships in 2005 and 2007.
When you think about superstars on the teams in the West, the East can't come close.
Granted, LeBron James is impressive, but on the other hand, there's Chris Paul and Blake Griffin for the Los Angeles Clippers, Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook for the Thunder, Dirk Nowitzki and Monte Ellis for the Dallas Mavericks, and Rubio and Kevin Love for the Minnesotta Timeberwolves.


Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:49 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
swerve13 wrote:
The East doesnt have any depth Rich, never does. West playoffs are always deep. Besides those old Celtics teams with Pierce/Garnett and the Bulls when Rose was actually healthy, there is never much there to talk about.


Go back and do a side by side comparison of the conferences from 2010-2012.

You're simply wrong on this one.

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Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:16 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
swerve13 wrote:
Quote:
Many basketball fans are wondering why the Western Conference is so much stronger than the Eastern Conference this season. The truth is that the West has always been a stronger conference than the East, going back to the Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal glory days.
The West is deeper, stronger and has better all-around athletes than the East.
While there are plenty of arguments for either side, the fact remains that the Western Conference has won an astonishing 10 of the last 13 NBA Finals.
"Half of those 10 went to the Lakers who are about as big a powerhouse in the NBA as there ever was," said Ramapo junior Arseniy Leontyev. "The West is the stronger conference mostly because no one likes a powerhouse. All the teams in L.A.'s conference see them contend every year and strive to knock them off every season."
However, over the past few years, the Eastern Conference has made some sort of resurrection, with the return to prominence seen in teams like the Boston Celtics, Miami Heat, Washington Wizards, Toronto Raptors and the Brooklyn Nets. However, the West is still the class of the NBA.
The most intriguing part about this discussion is not whether the West really is better, but why?


http://www.ramaponews.com/news/view.php ... ominance-O

Quote:
The superstar power of the Western Conference has also been superior to that of the East.
Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal, two future Hall of Famers, won three championships together for the Lakers. Bryant won two more championships with the Lakers, as well as Pau Gasol after O'Neal's departure. Gasol is another one that will go down as one of the best seven footers in the history of the game.
Fans can't forget about the old dog Tim Duncan, who may be the greatest power forward to ever play the game.
The West also boasts one of the best sixth men to come off the bench with Argentinean shooting guard Manu Ginobili of the San Antonio Spurs. His close friend, French point guard, Tony Parker joined the Spurs and the team won a second title in 2003. Duncan and his fellow Spurs went on to winning two more championships in 2005 and 2007.
When you think about superstars on the teams in the West, the East can't come close.
Granted, LeBron James is impressive, but on the other hand, there's Chris Paul and Blake Griffin for the Los Angeles Clippers, Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook for the Thunder, Dirk Nowitzki and Monte Ellis for the Dallas Mavericks, and Rubio and Kevin Love for the Minnesotta Timeberwolves.


Try to focus on what I am saying rather than injecting irrelevant information into the discussion.

The Heat have won the Eastern Conference 4 times and three of the times they did the team with the best record in the NBA was in the East and the East was 5-6 teams deep.

The East was not deep this year or during the Laker years, but that is irrelevant to my point.

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Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:21 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
AQNOR wrote:
5 of the 15 players currently listed on the Spurs roster were drafted by them.


Did you know that 4 of the 15 players currently on the Heat roster were drafted by them and one was signed as a rookie free agent?

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Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:23 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
Funny how the entire sporting world has known for years that the West has been way better than the East for years and years but you somehow know better than them. It's not even worth the discussion.


Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:30 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
swerve13 wrote:
It's not even worth the discussion.


It definitely is not when you're having one conversation and I am having another. :hithead:

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Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:32 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
Rich wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
5 of the 15 players currently listed on the Spurs roster were drafted by them.


Did you know that 4 of the 15 players currently on the Heat roster were drafted by them and one was signed as a rookie free agent?


I had no idea. I was responding to a post that said Spurs built through the draft and I have a mixed opinion of that and put the info out there to further a discussion if any was desired.


Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:42 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
I should know better than to engage in this topic but since its the off season for football in what is going to be a very boring year on this site because the Dolphins are going to run the table & win the super bowl , I will.
When comparing the East to the West you cannot just go by record. The West is a much more physical , grueling style of play. Wade who missed 28 games this season would have been beaten down much worse , and lets face it , that is where the big games need to come from. Lebron cannot always carry this team & Bosh (I dont care what stats say) is not the guy he was in Toronto.
Look , this Heat thing was a success ... 4 straight final appearances is something but they are not the Jordan Bulls , the Chamberlan Lakers , the Bird Celtics or the Showtime Lakers.
The word haters has been tossed around. Well take it from this Yankee fan it goes with the territory when you appear to try to buy a title. Heat fans gets used to it. You paraded this big 3 out (although we now know it is a big 1) in a hip hop like atmosphere , cramming it down the worlds face with these guys proclaiming that 7 titles would not be enough.
This loss was in no way on Lebron , its just that they faced a team where he could not carry his team on his back.
The Spurs ... 5 out of 15 thru the draft is still impressive. The trade for Leonard was a ballsy , gutsy move. It was thought Indiana hosed San Antonio. The Spurs could be the best run Sports franchise. This run is quite impressive.
The Heat will be back because the East is that bad. Even from a few years ago , the Bulls , Knicks , Pacers or whoever else were & are mere pretenders. In the East the regular season does not matter .... was there ever any doubt the Heat would beat the Nets in the playoffs while being swept by them in the regular season.
And yes as a Knick fan I know my team has done very little ... thank you Isiah Thomas.
But when the Heat fail to live up to their own hype , you cannot cry from the hate. You take it like a Yankee or Patriot fan.
You knew however that the series was over after game 4 when once again in the press conference just as he did after the Dallas loss a few years ago Lebron went back to how good his life is , win or lose & this is just Basketball. Well we all know that but we want our stars to have a bit more fight in them and a bit less complacency.
Anyway , once again big difference between playing a East schedule from a West schedule.

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Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:36 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
5 or 6 out of 15 from your own draft does not sound all that impressive to me but maybe it is. I have not been able to find much info and analysis along those lines yet.

Here is one site that gives stats about NBA teams and rosters. The teams that currently look impressive to me by building effectively through draft are: Oklahoma City Thunder - 9 in draft and Portland Trail Blazers - 9 in draft.

This site has the Spurs listed as having 6 through draft. The average for the league this year is 4.933. To me it seems as if the Spurs are only a bit above league average but some of their most valuable players are in that group and they have been good for a long time so it would be harder to draft quality players when you are picking consistently late in the draft.

Of the 9 teams that won 50 or more games in the NBA this year 6 of them had 4 or fewer players on the team that they drafted. The others Thunder and Blazers had 9 and the Spurs 6.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/transa ... ion_search


Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:35 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
I agree Aqnor but the bottom line is the West is tons more better than the East , the Heat are really the only team who CAN come out of the East , Heat fans should not be surprised by the "haters" , the Spurs are the best franchise in the NBA (not only because they just won the title).
I have to wonder though .... what is Pat Riley going to do with all the 3 peat merchandise he had made up?

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:35 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
The Heat did, imo, invite criticism when they did the whole production and seem to promise what 5, 6 no 7? rings and have not delivered and does not look like they will.


Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:12 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
FINesse wrote:
When comparing the East to the West you cannot just go by record. The West is a much more physical , grueling style of play.


You're wrong here. The West is not known for its physicality. It is known for wide-open, offensive basketball. 7 of the top 10 defensive teams are in the East. All of the top 10 offensive teams are in the West.

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Wade who missed 28 games this season would have been beaten down much worse


Actually, I think its quite the opposite. A player like Wade would benefit more from the wide-open offensive style played in the West versus the grind it out, half court style played in the East. So would a player like Bosh.

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Even from a few years ago , the Bulls , Knicks , Pacers or whoever else were & are mere pretenders.


Based on your logic, OKC are pretenders as well. So are Memphis, Portland, Houston and LA. Remember how easily the Heat handled the Thunder a couple of years ago in the Finals?

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And yes as a Knick fan


Well, this says it all doesn't it...

Quote:
Anyway , once again big difference between playing a East schedule from a West schedule.


This season, but the East was much deeper and stronger from 2010-2012. Derrick Rose's injury has changed the dynamic quite a bit. The Celtics getting older and breaking up has changed the dynamic as well. The Knicks not sticking to one plan, the Pacers locker room dissolving into chaos. The other teams in the East haven't fallen off because of lack of talent.

And then look at the young, up and coming teams like Toronto, Washington and Atlanta.

Meanwhile, out West, the Lakers have fallen apart, Dallas is closing in on the end with Dirk, Oklahoma City is not a mentally tough team, Houston can't play defense, neither can Portland (although at least Portland is up and coming), the Clippers are trying to "buy" a championship, just like the Heat and San Antonio's run with their Big Three has to come to and end at some point.

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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
AQNOR wrote:
The Heat did, imo, invite criticism when they did the whole production and seem to promise what 5, 6 no 7? rings and have not delivered and does not look like they will.


So quick to write off a team with 2 titles and 4 finals appearances because of one bad series?

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:28 am
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
Nobodys writing them off. Like I said they should still come out of the East for the next few years. But like the Yankees and Patriots its much bigger news when you lose. Tough pill to swallow.

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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
Rich wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
The Heat did, imo, invite criticism when they did the whole production and seem to promise what 5, 6 no 7? rings and have not delivered and does not look like they will.


So quick to write off a team with 2 titles and 4 finals appearances because of one bad series?



They looked like a one man team in that final series. Wade is not what he used to be. Allen is done. Bosh sends ti have disappeared. Watch LeBron take his talents to NY or LA and those sold out season tickets will easily become a half filled arena

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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
FINesse wrote:
Heat fans gets used to it. You paraded this big 3 out (although we now know it is a big 1) in a hip hop like atmosphere , cramming it down the worlds face with these guys proclaiming that 7 titles would not be enough.


Ugh, what? You must have me confused with LeBron James...you know, the guy who actually said that.

Rich wrote:
You're wrong here. The West is not known for its physicality. It is known for wide-open, offensive basketball. 7 of the top 10 defensive teams are in the East. All of the top 10 offensive teams are in the West.


I was going to say the same thing until I saw you comment on that. The East is by far and away the better defensive conference, he had his words completely mixed up, and the opposite of the truth in that regard.

TommyNoleFin wrote:
Watch LeBron take his talents to NY or LA and those sold out season tickets will easily become a half filled arena


Says the disgruntled Knicks fan. Your team couldn't even make it out of a historically bad Eastern Conference where more than half of its teams makes the post season. LOL

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:25 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
TommyNoleFin wrote:
They looked like a one man team in that final series.


On the offensive side it was pretty much the same thing last year.

This series came down to effort. The Spurs had a chip on their shoulder from last year and the Heat seemed content to only play defense for half a shot clock.

Sometimes losing is the best medicine, again see Spurs last year.

Quote:
Wade is not what he used to be.


And yet for the most part, he looked better in these playoffs than he did last year until the Finals. But Wade has to change his game. Hopefully he spends all offseason working on his set shots because he cannot attack the rim like he used to.

Quote:
Allen is done.


Allen was fine, he did what he was brought here to do. He's never been a good defender.

Quote:
Bosh sends ti have disappeared.


Well if they would pass him the ball....

He does well when he gets 20+ touches. This is on the coaching staff not realizing Bosh needs to move to the #2 option and Wade needs to move to the #3 option.

Quote:
Watch LeBron take his talents to NY or LA and those sold out season tickets will easily become a half filled arena


James is not going to your crappy Knicks team.

Might be the other way around...

But hey... you ALMOST made the playoffs. You should be proud.

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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
FINesse wrote:
Nobodys writing them off.


Except the guy I quoted...

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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
Rich wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
The Heat did, imo, invite criticism when they did the whole production and seem to promise what 5, 6 no 7? rings and have not delivered and does not look like they will.


So quick to write off a team with 2 titles and 4 finals appearances because of one bad series?


I don't think the big 3 will deliver 7 rings to the heat. If that is writing them off then yes, I have.


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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
AQNOR wrote:
Rich wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
The Heat did, imo, invite criticism when they did the whole production and seem to promise what 5, 6 no 7? rings and have not delivered and does not look like they will.


So quick to write off a team with 2 titles and 4 finals appearances because of one bad series?


I don't think the big 3 will deliver 7 rings to the heat. If that is writing them off then yes, I have.


Doesn't have to be the Big Three. Lebron will do.

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:09 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
Rich wrote:

Doesn't have to be the Big Three. Lebron will do.


Maybe we are talking about two different things.


Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:18 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
AQNOR wrote:
Maybe we are talking about two different things.


Well, if we want to be factual and accurate:

Quote:
The Heat did, imo, invite criticism when they...seem to promise what 5, 6 no 7?


Lebron was the one that said 5, 6 or 7. No one else did.

We've already had one guy attribute this to the fans and now you attribute it to the entire team.

One dude said it.

So let's focus on the dude that said it.

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Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:22 pm
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Post Re: Jonathan Martin, yes, that one, urges LeBron to toughen up
As I remember it he was asked a question on what the three of them would do together and the other two did not dispute his statement.

Is that accurate and factual in your opinion?


Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:32 pm
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