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 Dallas Thomas still a problem 
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Post Dallas Thomas still a problem
Let's face it ... Dallas Thomas is better than he was last year, but he is still a bench warmer. Chance are that Billy Turner may not be much better as he was projected as a project and is an converted OT, but the Dolphins love his nasty attitude.

Dave Hyde wrote:
Expect rookie Billy Turner to get a longer look this week at right guard after the way Dallas Thomas was handled by Tampa Bay's Gerald McCoy. Now, McCoy is perhaps the best tackle in the league. And the question will be how this line holds up against the great players they'll see - New England's Vince Wilfork, the Bills' Mario Williams, the Jets' entire defensive line and Detroits Ndamugkong Suh are there for seven of the games.

Of Thomas' play, Philbin said, "There are a couple of plays he has to block better."


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/dave ... 2514.story


Barry Jackson wrote:
### You don’t want to overreact to Dallas Thomas’ horrific night because he isn’t going to face players of McCoy’s quality all that often. And yes, it was horrific --- beaten for a strip sack (Samson Satele provided no help), beaten for a quarterback hurry, beaten on at least two running plays for losses, and a holding penalty thrown in for good measure.


Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-b ... rylink=cpy

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Is Shelley Smith an option at RG? I am worried about the lack of a running game.

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
bobby0112 wrote:
Is Shelley Smith an option at RG? I am worried about the lack of a running game.


Not good news on Shelly Smith last night.

Barry Jackson wrote:
It’s worth noting that Shelley Smith, who cannot crack the starting lineup, is considered one of Miami’s best run-blockers. But he was partly to blame on a six-yard loss by Damien Williams on one running play.


Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-b ... rylink=cpy

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
A Pro Bowl DT and one of the best in the NFL manhandled a player getting some of his first NFL action. Time to panic.


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Dphins4me wrote:
A Pro Bowl DT and one of the best in the NFL manhandled a player getting some of his first NFL action. Time to panic.


Normally not but this is a guy who was drafted by Jeff Ireland and couldn't crack the lineup in last year's sorry excuse for an o-line

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
The guards were a huge issue last night. Better in pass protection but still lousy and it wasn't just a pro bowler making them look silly. When that guy went to the bench it wasn't a few plays later his sub made a play behind the LOS. Miami needs to get some veteran guards on the phone asap. The guys they have starting would be cut by most teams


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
There is this guy in San Fran..... :angry:


Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:42 am
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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
TommyNoleFin wrote:
Normally not but this is a guy who was drafted by Jeff Ireland and couldn't crack the lineup in last year's sorry excuse for an o-line

Being drafted by Ireland is not relevant. The fact he did not play last yr is not relevant. He was a 3rd Rd pick being ask to change positions, plus missed most of camp with an injury. I fully expect him to be abused by an All-Pro. Its how he responds that will be the determining factor for him. What did he learn from it. What can he do to improve on it will be the key things.


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Quote:
I fully expect him to be abused by an All-Pro.
how about abused by the all-pro's backup?


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
NFLJunkie wrote:
how about abused by the all-pro's backup?

Will have to watch the game. Was it one play he lost on & won the rest or was he abused on every play is what needs to be seen. Every player wins some & loses some. Thomas is just now starting to get some field action & I for one fully expect some good player & bad plays while he learns.

Hopefully his ability is there & he will figure somethings out.


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
I think the bottom line here is the OL remains a problem particularly at the guard position. It needs to be addressed and waiting for a guy to figure things out isn't the answer.


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
NFLJunkie wrote:
I think the bottom line here is the OL remains a problem particularly at the guard position. It needs to be addressed and waiting for a guy to figure things out isn't the answer.

Miami is replacing its entire OL. I would be highly surprised if that has ever happened in NFL history to any team.

Why would anyone expect there not to still be issues & growing pains? I expect the entire yr to have OL issues. From what I always heard an OL is about 5 men playing as one. Not going to get that in a couple of weeks.

For instant gratification you will be 100% correct that it is not the answer.


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Kev1321 wrote:
There is this guy in San Fran..... :angry:


Not happening. Unless of course you're letting Pouncey go because that's what you're effectively saying if you want to trade and P-A-Y Boone what he's asking for.

There is no way this team sports three huge contracts along the O-line.

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Rock Sexton wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
There is this guy in San Fran..... :angry:


Not happening. Unless of course you're letting Pouncey go because that's what you're effectively saying if you want to trade and P-A-Y Boone what he's asking for.

There is no way this team sports three huge contracts along the O-line.


He's asking for starter money...And we have PLENTY of cap room for him and Pouncey even IF they decide to invest in him ..

Has nothing to do with Pouncey this year or next.


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Kev1321 wrote:
He's asking for starter money...And we have PLENTY of cap room for him and Pouncey even IF they decide to invest in him ..

Has nothing to do with Pouncey this year or next.


He's not asking for run-of-the-mill starter money.

But like I said, you're not going to shell out three big signing bonuses to three offensive lineman while also paying them at or near the top for their position. That's what poorly run, bad drafting franchises do to find themselves in cap hell.

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Logan Mankins 32 $11,000,000

Dan Connolly 32 $4,083,334

Nate Solder 26 $7,438,000

Sebastian Vollmer 30 $4,500,000

Patriots 2015 cap numbers



See more at: http://www.patsfans.com/salary-cap/?p=652#.U_EiCZuGMxk


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Kev1321 wrote:
Logan Mankins 32 $11,000,000

Dan Connolly 32 $4,083,334

Nate Solder 26 $7,438,000

Sebastian Vollmer 30 $4,500,000

Patriots 2015 cap numbers


And look at the positions they penny pinched on (***cough WR***), which ultimately put Tom Brady in a bind having his worst season anyone can recall.

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Oline pay
Seahawks 27 mil
Broncos 25 mil
Patriots 23 mil
Miami 17.6 mil

We have plenty of cap space.



http://overthecap.com/offensebreakdown.php?Year=2013


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Rock Sexton wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
Logan Mankins 32 $11,000,000

Dan Connolly 32 $4,083,334

Nate Solder 26 $7,438,000

Sebastian Vollmer 30 $4,500,000

Patriots 2015 cap numbers


And look at the positions they penny pinched on (***cough WR***), which ultimately put Tom Brady in a bind having his worst season anyone can recall.


They paid not one but two tight ends top dollar and invested early round draft picks in wr.

Hernandez was 8 million per year


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Kev1321 wrote:
Oline pay
Seahawks 27 mil
Broncos 25 mil
Patriots 23 mil
Miami 17.6 mil

We have plenty of cap space.
http://overthecap.com/offensebreakdown.php?Year=2013


We have space right now because we're still paying Pouncey's rookie contract. If Alex Mack is worth 5years $42million and Ryan Kalil 6 years $49 million ..... then what do you think Pouncey's gonna get? When he gets fair value our cumulative O-line salary will balloon up where the Broncos/Seahawks are.

That doesn't include the potential salary we would have to give Boone, which in essence would drive it over the $30 million mark. That's absurd. Reminds me of the stupid money we threw around back when we went out and nabbed Smiley/Groves.

When you look at that list of teams, we also know the Seahawks are skating by on Russell Wilson's rookie contract, so they'll inevitably have to make some tough money-related roster cuts. Same for Denver since they recently spurged on defense for a 2 year window to win a championship.

The Dolphins are not in the 2 year window for a ring.

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Rock Sexton wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
Oline pay
Seahawks 27 mil
Broncos 25 mil
Patriots 23 mil
Miami 17.6 mil

We have plenty of cap space.
http://overthecap.com/offensebreakdown.php?Year=2013


We have space right now because we're still paying Pouncey's rookie contract. If Alex Mack is worth 5years $42million and Ryan Kalil 6 years $49 million ..... then what do you think Pouncey's gonna get? When he gets fair value our cumulative O-line salary will balloon up where the Broncos/Seahawks are.

That doesn't include the potential salary we would have to give Boone, which in essence would drive it over the $30 million mark. That's absurd. Reminds me of the stupid money we threw around back when we went out and nabbed Smiley/Groves.

When you look at that list of teams, we also know the Seahawks are skating by on Russell Wilson's rookie contract, so they'll inevitably have to make some tough money-related roster cuts. Same for Denver since they recently spurged on defense for a 2 year window to win a championship.

The Dolphins are not in the 2 year window for a ring.


Smart cap management would indicate locking Russell Wilson into a Ben Rothlisberger/Eli Manning contract right new before his play justifies a Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers contract.

As for Pouncey, with all the trouble he's caused, I don't see him in a Dolphins uniform next year

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
We would have cap space this year, we had 18 mil in rollover, but we are already over the actual cap, it's only because of the rollover that we have some room, but we will have no rollover next year.

We have to be able to draft, we can't be constently going out and signing high priced FAs to fill all our needs, thats what bad teams do.

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Finster wrote:
We have to be able to draft, we can't be constently going out and signing high priced FAs to fill all our needs, thats what bad teams do.


That was my point.

Alex Boone is a guy you go grab if you're a legitimate Super Bowl contender and you've got a window closing for winning a championship with your core guys.

For teams like us, it's just a band-aid which inevitably will cause harm in the cap later on when we don't even have a real core established yet ...... unless you're alright with letting Pouncey walk.

Can't say enough about how important it is to actually draft "contributing" talent.

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Rock Sexton wrote:
Finster wrote:
We have to be able to draft, we can't be constently going out and signing high priced FAs to fill all our needs, thats what bad teams do.


That was my point.

Alex Boone is a guy you go grab if you're a legitimate Super Bowl contender and you've got a window closing for winning a championship with your core guys.

For teams like us, it's just a band-aid which inevitably will cause harm in the cap later on when we don't even have a real core established yet ...... unless you're alright with letting Pouncey walk.

Can't say enough about how important it is to actually draft "contributing" talent.


I disagree. You have cap room this year and next without an issue(that is a fact)..And this guy makes you a playoff contender and locks up your o line as a strength with depth for the next 3 years. This is a very workable deal.

Quote:
Boone has held out since early in the offseason. The two sides are not close to a contract extension and Boone is believed to be prepared to stay away from the team until he gets a new deal. He has two seasons remaining on his contract that will pay him about a total of $4 million.
.Helps Tannehill and the run game..No more excuses.

And Pouncey is not Grimes..


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Quote:
2. Joe Philbin has said all along he wanted the offensive line to be set by now - "in a perfect world,'' he said after Saturday's game. This wasn't perfect. Expect rookie Billy Turner to get a longer look this week at right guard after the way Dallas Thomas was handled by Tampa Bay's Gerald McCoy. Now, McCoy is perhaps the best tackle in the league. And the question will be how this line holds up against the great players they'll see - New England's Vince Wilfork, the Bills' Mario Williams, the Jets' entire defensive line and Detroits Ndamugkong Suh are there for seven of the games.







http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/dave ... l+blogs%29


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Kev1321 wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
Finster wrote:
We have to be able to draft, we can't be constently going out and signing high priced FAs to fill all our needs, thats what bad teams do.


That was my point.

Alex Boone is a guy you go grab if you're a legitimate Super Bowl contender and you've got a window closing for winning a championship with your core guys.

For teams like us, it's just a band-aid which inevitably will cause harm in the cap later on when we don't even have a real core established yet ...... unless you're alright with letting Pouncey walk.

Can't say enough about how important it is to actually draft "contributing" talent.


I disagree. You have cap room this year and next without an issue(that is a fact)..And this guy makes you a playoff contender and locks up your o line as a strength with depth for the next 3 years. This is a very workable deal.

Quote:
Boone has held out since early in the offseason. The two sides are not close to a contract extension and Boone is believed to be prepared to stay away from the team until he gets a new deal. He has two seasons remaining on his contract that will pay him about a total of $4 million.
.Helps Tannehill and the run game..No more excuses.

And Pouncey is not Grimes..


The thing is Kev, we are currently over the cap by a few mil, the only reason we have money to spend is because of the 18 mil rollover from last year, we won't have any rollover next year.

Boone wants around 10 mil per year, and he's not going to sign a 2 year contract, we would also have to give up draft picks in all likely hood, they may take a player but I doubt that, they have confidence in their drafting.

We have large contracts coming up with Pouncey and Tanne just to start off with.

I agree that Pouncey isn't Grimes, Pouncey's an elite player at the beginning of his career, Grimes is a very good player at the end of his career.

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Kev1321 wrote:

I disagree. You have cap room this year and next without an issue(that is a fact)..And this guy makes you a playoff contender and locks up your o line as a strength with depth for the next 3 years. This is a very workable deal.


We don't have a glut of cap space next year. We are on the hook for $150 million in 2015. This year's cap is like $133million with an increase expected next year of $10-$12million.

Finster wrote:
The thing is Kev, we are currently over the cap by a few mil, the only reason we have money to spend is because of the 18 mil rollover from last year, we won't have any rollover next year.

Boone wants around 10 mil per year, and he's not going to sign a 2 year contract, we would also have to give up draft picks in all likely hood, they may take a player but I doubt that, they have confidence in their drafting.

We have large contracts coming up with Pouncey and Tanne just to start off with.

I agree that Pouncey isn't Grimes, Pouncey's an elite player at the beginning of his career, Grimes is a very good player at the end of his career.


Ya, I forgot about Tanny's contract, not to mention new incoming rookies and FA's. Good point.

Lots of questions looming around other players heading into next season. I saw this posted elsewhere, but these were the guys in question:

Ellerbe- We can save $5.6M or, pay him a $8.4M salary.

Wallace- save $2.5 or, pay a 9.8 salary.

Wheeler- save $200. or, pay him a $2.9 salary

Jones- cost $2M or, pay him a $6.7 salary.

Hartline save $3M or, pay him a $5.9 salary.

Finnegen- save $5.5M or, pay him a $5M salary.

Smith- save $2.7M or, pay him a $2.7 salary.

Mitchell- save $4.5M or, pay him a $4.7 salary.

Keep in mind for every guy out-going there has to be a viable replacement on the roster, otherwise we have to sign or draft someone else.

Just looking at the numbers, if Pouncey gets anywhere between $8-$10million that means between himself, James, and Albert our O-line would cost $20million. That doesn't even factor Boone and the 5th guy. Holy expensive line Batman!

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Finster wrote:
we won't have any rollover next year.


Yes we will. Whatever rolls over continues to roll over.

There is no shelf life on the roll over.

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
We have the money this year and next. That is not the issue..Spending is obviously


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
not to play devil's advocate here but...

Do we technically have room to carry Boone's contract? YES!!
Would it be crippling to next year? Probably
Can it be fixed? YES

Bring Boone in would mean jettisoning Ellerbe and Wheeler.

Good riddance!! Problem is can we replace them? NO!

So Boone this year.... would mean Tripp and McCain at LB next year.

I think i could get comfortable in that... (we let Crowder have 4 years to learn MLB, with the rest of the D carrying him), I dont think there will be much drop off...

If signing Boone can get us in the playoffs.... I'd say pull the trigger..... knowing that what i just mentioned above is probably the cause/effect plan for next season


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Kev1321 wrote:
We have the money this year and next. That is not the issue..Spending is obviously

This year we do. You haven't shown we do next you, although you keep insisting we do.

SkyHigh314 wrote:
not to play devil's advocate here but...

Do we technically have room to carry Boone's contract? YES!!
Would it be crippling to next year? Probably
Can it be fixed? YES

Bring Boone in would mean jettisoning Ellerbe and Wheeler.

Good riddance!! Problem is can we replace them? NO!

So Boone this year.... would mean Tripp and McCain at LB next year.

I think i could get comfortable in that... (we let Crowder have 4 years to learn MLB, with the rest of the D carrying him), I dont think there will be much drop off...

If signing Boone can get us in the playoffs.... I'd say pull the trigger..... knowing that what i just mentioned above is probably the cause/effect plan for next season

Kind've putting the cart before the horse here. You're already comfortable with an undrafted McLain and a late rounder Tripp as our starters at linebacker? Do you realize how important that position is to Coyle's defense? They haven't even started preseason games yet.

Next year's cap is more than just getting rid of Ellerbe/Wheeler to make room for Boone. Decisions are required on:

Tanny extension
Pouncey contract
Odrick contract
Knowshon Moreno
Louis Delmas

The last two are essentially placeholders right now who if not kept will need replacements. Then you have your 2015 draft class. Our cap number for 2015 is $150million. Projected cap is around $142million. We're over the cap. That $18million carry-over only puts us at a net $10million, with decisions to be made on the other players I mentioned.

A lot more decisions are required on guys I've previously posted about (Finnegan, Hartline, Jones, Wallace, Smith, Mitchell) and yet all will need replacements. This is not a situation where we easily fit Boone on this team ............ and my personal stance is spending nearly $30million on the O-line is a misappropriation of funds.

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Rock... that was my point.

I personally AM NOT COMFORTABLE with that.... but there is what you would HAVE to be comfortable with if you were to bring in Boone

Tanne's extension is not necessary.... tag and negoitiate for 2016 if necessary
Pouncey we already assumed was being signed for big money
Moreno is a one year rental... she be dropped
Delmas/Jones.... one will stay one will go (trade, unsigned) depending on if Wilson can do the job in the first 4 weeks
Odrick is the only real issue there

I agree with you on NOT spending for Boone.... but for Kev's mindset. Bringing Boone in.... in my mind, i gave a nice easy sacrifice that would help make sense in what would be required for the move to happen... obviously its more elaborate than that


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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
SkyHigh314 wrote:
Tanne's extension is not necessary.... tag and negoitiate for 2016 if necessary


If you tag Tannehill, he will probably take up a lot more cap space than if you extend him.

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Rich wrote:
If you tag Tannehill, he will probably take up a lot more cap space than if you extend him.


Over $20million ....... yuck.

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
we won't have any rollover next year.


Yes we will. Whatever rolls over continues to roll over.

There is no shelf life on the roll over.


That is true, but from what I remember that only applies if you don't actually use the rollover, which is why teams are required to inform the league office that they plan to use their rollover, it doesn't just automatically rollover.

I was under the impression that once you inform the league office that you intend to carryover into the next year, then that rollover is done, but if you do not inform the league, then you can continue to carry the rollover until you want to use it.

I could be wrong but that is how I thought it was structured.

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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Finster wrote:
Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
we won't have any rollover next year.


Yes we will. Whatever rolls over continues to roll over.

There is no shelf life on the roll over.


That is true, but from what I remember that only applies if you don't actually use the rollover, which is why teams are required to inform the league office that they plan to use their rollover, it doesn't just automatically rollover.

I was under the impression that once you inform the league office that you intend to carryover into the next year, then that rollover is done, but if you do not inform the league, then you can continue to carry the rollover until you want to use it.

I could be wrong but that is how I thought it was structured.


You have to inform the league. But if we are say $16 million under the cap right now because of the rollover, we can rollover that $16 million. It doesn't expire.

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Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:41 pm
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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
You have 5 million in dead cap in 2014. You add a guard you cut a guard.Shelly Smith save you 4.5 million


Thats without writing a signing bonus or cutting someone with any value...Of course there is ten other ways to do it..

Other good teams have that much invested in there oline, not an issue.


Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:29 pm
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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
Rich wrote:




You have to inform the league. But if we are say $16 million under the cap right now because of the rollover, we can rollover that $16 million. It doesn't expire.


Is there somewhere that can be verified, I thought that the adjusted cap money could not be transferred to the next year, that you can carry it for as many years as you like but once you decide to use it, it becomes the adjusted cap, and that adjusted cap money does not carry over.

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Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:45 pm
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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
That don`t even make sense...Then what the owner gets to keep his money he didn''t spend?

The reason is so teams spend the cap.


Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:55 pm
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Post Re: Dallas Thomas still a problem
Finster wrote:
Is there somewhere that can be verified, I thought that the adjusted cap money could not be transferred to the next year, that you can carry it for as many years as you like but once you decide to use it, it becomes the adjusted cap, and that adjusted cap money does not carry over.


The rule states that you can roll over salary cap space and once it is rolled over, it becomes salary cap space. So by definition, once it is rolled over, you can roll it over again.

The Dolphins have been operating under this "obscure" rule for two years now.

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Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:00 pm
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