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 Post subject: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:21 am 
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After looking at it again, it is clear it wasn't PI. It was clearly just too good of defense by Davis. The ball is behind the receiver, he leaps up, reaches in and deflects the ball up. The contact with the WR probably happens about the same time as the ball arriving. Very poor call and what is most disturbing is two refs threw flags. This play was much like the play in the first half where the DB got there just before the ball on Hartline and it was a no-call. As a Dolphin Fan, we've been on the short end of many calls through the years and I can forsee another year where refs get their tenacles intwined into the outcome of games. Holding callls, PI calls...all should be reviewable. Coaches still only get 2 flags. Otherwise...I can see Brady getting his skirt hiked up and getting in the refs face over every incomplete pass.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:16 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
After looking at it again, it is clear it wasn't PI. It was clearly just too good of defense by Davis. The ball is behind the receiver, he leaps up, reaches in and deflects the ball up. The contact with the WR probably happens about the same time as the ball arriving. Very poor call and what is most disturbing is two refs threw flags. This play was much like the play in the first half where the DB got there just before the ball on Hartline and it was a no-call. As a Dolphin Fan, we've been on the short end of many calls through the years and I can forsee another year where refs get their tenacles intwined into the outcome of games.


I had a few choice words for Ronde & who ever the other announcer was last night haha It was hard to listen to those Tampa lovers when I'm already fired up.

Davis play was Next Level! I'm not going to let the penalty call become a red herring (Although I have to admit it makes me feel good when members of the Phinfever Family get upset like me lol), instead I see a sign of great things to come from that kid.

I agree, if they called Davis then they should've called it for Hartline. I thought he still should've caught that though. There were a lot of drops last night

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:22 am 
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Great play by Davis. He's around the ball quite a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:32 pm 
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Davis will have to learn from that, he does look very good, he may be the next starter at CB for us, however he did what you can't do in the NFL, you can't go over the back of the WR, NFL officials will call that more times than not, and it did look like he made contact just before the ball got there.

if he was coming from the side then there would have been no call, because both players have a right to the ball in the air, but what you can't do is go through the WR or DB to get to the ball, if the WR had done the same thing then he would have been called.

He is looking like a real good player right now and he'll learn from that, you can't go over the WRs back.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:44 pm 
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Finster wrote:
however he did what you can't do in the NFL, you can't go over the back of the WR, NFL officials will call that more times than not, and it did look like he made contact just before the ball got there.


It wasn't pass interference.

You can't play THRU the receiver but you can play over the receiver. You can also make contact if you are playing the ball.

A Bucs DB did the same thing to Hartline at another point in the game and was not called for anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:42 pm 
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FWIW, Miami drew the 2nd least amount of pass interference calls in the NFL last season. It's an issue, not just something the fans are complaining about as an excuse.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:21 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
FWIW, Miami drew the 2nd least amount of pass interference calls in the NFL last season. It's an issue, not just something the fans are complaining about as an excuse.


How did they not throw a flag on the deep pass to Wallace? The DB knocked him off stride during that mugging.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:01 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
however he did what you can't do in the NFL, you can't go over the back of the WR, NFL officials will call that more times than not, and it did look like he made contact just before the ball got there.


It wasn't pass interference.

You can't play THRU the receiver but you can play over the receiver. You can also make contact if you are playing the ball.

A Bucs DB did the same thing to Hartline at another point in the game and was not called for anything.


Exactly, and to add to that the ball was thrown way behind the WR. Both players I think only managed one hand on the ball. It should've never been called.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:15 pm 
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I would still have to disagree, watched several times in slow motion, the ball was heading straight into the chest of the WR, it wasn't behind him, Davis' forearm hit the WR in the back of the head just prior to the ball getting there, that would fall under going over the WRs back, or running through the WR.

On the Hartline play the DB made an effort to go around and get his hands on the ball and didn't get there early like Davis did.

It happens, no big deal, one thing that can't be argued is that it was a really close call, and as we all know, close calls can go either way, and the NFL is stressing PI this year.

None of this takes away from the fact that Davis is looking real good, better than Taylor, imo Davis will be the next starter, and if Finny isn't on top of his game Davis is going to steal his spot, actually Davis was the best CB on the field for us since Grimesy struggled a bit in that game.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:39 am 
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The NFL stresses PI every year in the preseason and then backs off during the season.

During the season, that probably doesn't get called.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:03 am 
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Davis already has a hand on the ball. The WR was trying to slow down because the ball was thrown behind him. There is no contact. No flag should've been thrown.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:06 am 
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Quote:
On the Hartline play the DB made an effort to go around and get his hands on the ball and didn't get there early like Davis did.


Actually the DB was only trying to hit Hartline and did arrive a moment before the ball. If you need a photo, let me know.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:10 am 
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Sorry Finster, Junkie got it right. There is no forearm in the back of the receiver's head.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:12 am 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
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Davis already has a hand on the ball. The WR was trying to slow down because the ball was thrown behind him. There is no contact. No flag should've been thrown.


It's clear in this photo, that Davis' chest is hitting the WR in the helmet, I said forearm earlier, and it happened just prior to the ball getting there, you can't do that in the NFL, that's running through the WR, or going over the back of the WR.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:16 am 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
Quote:
On the Hartline play the DB made an effort to go around and get his hands on the ball and didn't get there early like Davis did.


Actually the DB was only trying to hit Hartline and did arrive a moment before the ball. .

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:18 am 
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BTW, both plays could have been called either way, however it is this type of maddening inconsistency that will plague the NFL. When judgement calls ruin playoff games due to one side getting all the close calls.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:19 am 
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Finster wrote:
It's clear in this photo, that Davis' chest is hitting the WR in the helmet, I said forearm earlier, and it happened just prior to the ball getting there, you can't do that in the NFL, that's running through the WR, or going over the back of the WR.


You can go over the back if you are playing the ball. The rule states that contact is allowed if the play is on the ball. You cannot play thru the WR, which would mean essentially knocking him out of the way to make the play.

Actions that constitute defensive pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Contact by a defender who is not playing the ball and such contact restricts the receiver’s opportunity to make the catch.

(b) Playing through the back of a receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball.

(c) Grabbing a receiver’s arm(s) in such a manner that restricts his opportunity to catch a pass.

(d) Extending an arm across the body of a receiver thus restricting his ability to catch a pass, regardless of whether the defender is playing the ball.

(e) Cutting off the path of a receiver by making contact with him without playing the ball.

(f) Hooking a receiver in an attempt to get to the ball in such a manner that it causes the receiver’s body to turn prior to the ball arriving.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:22 am 
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Both players have an equal right to the ball, once Davis's hand got in to deflect the pass, it should have been a clean pass break up. Any contact made by Davis did not prevent the receiver from making the catch. Davis's hand getting in to break up the pass prevented the receiver from making the catch.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:25 am 
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The problem that I have with Will Davis is that he reminds me a lot of Terrell Buckley. He will certainly be around the ball and if given opportunities get picks, BUT, he plays undisciplined and gets burned A LOT.

Hopefully, with his ball hawking skills, he polishes up his game more then I can see him really contributing, but make no mistake, last year Tom Brady picked on him as a weak link, which is why a guy like Michael Thomas got an opportunity. I can guarantee you like Nolan Carroll, Brady will go right at Davis until he can prove he is consistent.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:30 am 
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Quote:
It's clear in this photo, that Davis' chest is hitting the WR in the helmet, I said forearm earlier, and it happened just prior to the ball getting there, you can't do that in the NFL, that's running through the WR, or going over the back of the WR.


IF Davis is touching the WR, the WR hasn't shown any deflection of his head at this point. Davis is however, touching the ball. Again, this happens at full speed, but this is just textbook defense. If he is guilty of anything maybe its being too tight on coverage.

On the Hartline review, it is clear the DB is reaching in long before the ball gets there and is an easier PI call than the one on Davis...which again bolsters my point.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:34 am 
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Get used to more pass interference calls this season, it is the way it will be and I will bet more controversial, unfortunately.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:36 am 
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Finhead34 wrote:
Get used to more pass interference calls this season, it is the way it will be and I will bet more controversial, unfortunately.

... and that is the point. There are going to be MORE controversial calls. Which means the Patriots normal 1-2 gifts every game is going to be 3-4 gifts every game.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:39 am 
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Finhead34 wrote:
BUT, he plays undisciplined and gets burned A LOT.


When has he gotten burned this offseason? He's been All World so far in the preseason games.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:52 am 
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I could understand complaining if either of these calls were blatant, neither of them are, both of these calls are very close and close calls can go either way.

Refs are human, paying them doesn't change that fact, blaming them for being human is an exercise in futility imo, because bad calls are as much a part of the game as a bad play by an individual, as long as humans are being relied upon to call these games there will be bad calls.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:58 am 
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Things suck. Let's not try to make them better.

The end.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:01 am 
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Yep... there really is NO way to correct this. Its unfortunate.

Tell you what. I would be in 100% favor of the NFL making an official state out of their inconsistency though. How many flags are thrown a game? How many penalties are accepted?

Every penalty flag accepted should be reviewed by a governing body of NFL officials over the following week. To which, calls that should have been reversed could be tracked as a stat.

I know it sounds stupid. But I would love to hear an NFL officiating officer track how many Gifts the Pats get every year... I would also LOVE to hear them admit that Miami is one of the most falsely penalized teams in the NFL. Not really asking for a game to be overturned... just the NFL to admit that they are wrong.... which they do only at the expense of some one's job (like the replacement refs)


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:03 am 
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SkyHigh314 wrote:
Yep... there really is NO way to correct this. Its unfortunate.

Tell you what. I would be in 100% favor of the NFL making an official state out of their inconsistency though. How many flags are thrown a game? How many penalties are accepted?

Every penalty flag accepted should be reviewed by a governing body of NFL officials over the following week. To which, calls that should have been reversed could be tracked as a stat.

I know it sounds stupid. But I would love to hear an NFL officiating officer track how many Gifts the Pats get every year... I would also LOVE to hear them admit that Miami is one of the most falsely penalized teams in the NFL. Not really asking for a game to be overturned... just the NFL to admit that they are wrong.... which they do only at the expense of some one's job (like the replacement refs)


Actually the NFL does this, refs get fired for too many bad calls.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:06 am 
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Rich wrote:
Things suck. Let's not try to make them better.

The end.


You think complaining about them on this thread is doing something about it. :haha

It is what it is, this is the world we live in.

To be continued...

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:06 am 
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NFL Junkie you were right on both calls.

I was surprised that one was called in the game and the other was not given the emphasis in other games of stressing that kind of contact. Wallace also did not get a call with the contact on him.

Home field advantage?


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:10 am 
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PFF should start keeping numbers on refs.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:48 am 
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SkyHigh314 wrote:
Yep... there really is NO way to correct this. Its unfortunate.

Tell you what. I would be in 100% favor of the NFL making an official state out of their inconsistency though. How many flags are thrown a game? How many penalties are accepted?

Every penalty flag accepted should be reviewed by a governing body of NFL officials over the following week. To which, calls that should have been reversed could be tracked as a stat.

I know it sounds stupid. But I would love to hear an NFL officiating officer track how many Gifts the Pats get every year... I would also LOVE to hear them admit that Miami is one of the most falsely penalized teams in the NFL. Not really asking for a game to be overturned... just the NFL to admit that they are wrong.... which they do only at the expense of some one's job (like the replacement refs)


I've seen this show too many times. Game is tight calls go against the "lesser" team. After "good" team is up by a nice margin...enter as many make up calls as you can to appear fair and balanced.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:50 am 
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AQNOR wrote:
NFL Junkie you were right on both calls.

I was surprised that one was called in the game and the other was not given the emphasis in other games of stressing that kind of contact. Wallace also did not get a call with the contact on him.

Home field advantage?


I almost forgot about Wallace. The guy had his arm around the waste. In any case, no HFA as Miami routinely gets this type of bias even at home.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:13 pm 
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Finster wrote:
Rich wrote:
Things suck. Let's not try to make them better.

The end.


You think complaining about them on this thread is doing something about it. :haha

It is what it is, this is the world we live in.

To be continued...


These discussions are an exercise in futility, but we keep having them.

:headscratch

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:59 pm 
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Seriously? I never complain about the refs or officiating. :ohno


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:43 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
Rich wrote:
Things suck. Let's not try to make them better.

The end.


You think complaining about them on this thread is doing something about it. :haha

It is what it is, this is the world we live in.

To be continued...


These discussions are an exercise in futility, but we keep having them.

:headscratch


None of what anyone says here will change anything. That doesn't mean the discussion isn't worth having.

Vanity of vanities . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:47 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
Seriously? I never complain about the refs or officiating. :ohno


Do it bro! Let that shizz out if you want lol

I love when you post your venting. Its one thing we can do that makes being a Phan easier.

Those zebras need to recognize the talent that is Mr Davis!

(i still think Hartline should've caught that one)

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:52 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
Rich wrote:
Things suck. Let's not try to make them better.

The end.


You think complaining about them on this thread is doing something about it. :haha

It is what it is, this is the world we live in.

To be continued...


These discussions are an exercise in futility, but we keep having them.

:headscratch


LOL, fair point.

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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:54 pm 
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Finster.... I know it happens behind closed doors..... each ref team gets graded.... only certain teams get selected for playoff games.... whole crews get terminated... yea i get it.

All i said... is the NFL should stand behind their BAD CALLS.... and make it public.

They are public enough about GM's breaking rules, Coaches breaking rules (Spygate).... I would LOOOOOOVE to see the look on bad ref A walking out of the principals office with a suspension notice.

Gene Steratore.... If/When he gets a pink slip. I will probably throw a party. I just hope its a public shaming in which he deserves


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:03 pm 
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This is easily solved. Give the coaches 1 more red flag than they have now. They get a total of 3 for the game. They can challenge any call. None of this "not-challengeable" horse crap. You know they're still going to blow a few calls but it will give them the opportunity to correct agregious ones.
The example is the call on Will Davis. It is a judgement call so it isn't reviewable. Therefore the turnover wouldn't be reviewable. NFL needs to change that to preserve the integrity of the sport.


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 Post subject: Re: Will Davis's PI call
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:43 pm 
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I've always been a proponent of having more refs on the field, specific to a duty, as in ball refs, and in bound refs, penalty refs, instead of asking then all to do everything.

You can't add much on the field, but you could put a bunch of them on the sidelines, they would not be a part of the ref discussions, they would just say what they saw, the theory being that more eyes will get to the truth more often.

So say 6 refs saw a play and 2 say X and 4 say Y, well then 4 it is.

It's not like the NFL can't afford it.

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