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Post Re: Game thread
Makchell wrote:
and every starter, including Manning and Brady make those throws on occasion. Give him a break

Come on Gary, of course they do, but check their td/int ratio. I don't care what anyone says on the board and/or media, if RT continues to have a close to even td/int ratio, we will be drafting a QB next year. Save this post if needed.


Mak,
RT has to come up with the big play. It is the one area his game is lacking. If he doesn't, you're right there will be talk and players brought in to challenge him. BTW, go look at Manning and Brady in year 3.... then get back to me on that TD to INT ratio.


Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:24 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
There's always some kind of reason within the offense that Tannehill throws an INT. Never seen anything like it.


Oh brother...


Just being honest man. From the O-line, to the receivers, to the "he's inexperienced" .....


We are having a discussion about a specific play.

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:25 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Just being honest man. From the O-line, to the receivers, to the "he's inexperienced" .....


Don't forget picks at the end of the games that "don't count". I say he should have thrown more TDs so he and his team isn't in that situation, they count...


Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:26 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
NFLJunkie wrote:
Guys...I'm not sure about you but I'm excited because if nothing else the offense is moving the ball and only seems to be stopped by their own mistakes. When they fix those...there's no limit. I haven't seen this type of yardage from a Miami team in a long time. It is time to get pumped.


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Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:26 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Well I've watched a ton of preseason games and I'm not sure how many times I've seen 200+ yds in the first half... back to back games.


Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:27 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Rich wrote:
We are having a discussion about a specific play.


I know. But that same play had 3 defenders in the area, regardless of where Hartline was supposed to break his route. He had three other receivers in man coverage with plenty of space to work, but he didn't even bother looking.

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Post Re: Game thread
Makchell wrote:
Don't forget picks at the end of the games that "don't count". I say he should have thrown more TDs so he and his team isn't in that situation, they count...


Those too ...... thanks for reminding me.

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:27 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
We are having a discussion about a specific play.


I know. But that same play had 3 defenders in the area, regardless of where Hartline was supposed to break his route. He had three other receivers in man coverage with plenty of space to work, but he didn't even bother looking.

I can't comment on the other receivers, they didn't show footage. I do know Lazor's system requires a lot of timing passes and for decisions to happen quickly and the ball to come out fast and I think that played a role in both INT's.

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:29 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
With zone coverage you are typically going to have 2-3 defenders in an 'area'.

No one is going to triple team Hartline.

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:30 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Rich wrote:
I can't comment on the other receivers, they didn't show footage. I do know Lazor's system requires a lot of timing passes and for decisions to happen quickly and the ball to come out fast and I think that played a role in both INT's.


There's definitely timing involved in this offense, won't deny that.

I watched the play though. I'm mostly looking at the WR/DB matchups, the coverage ..... trying to guess where the QB is going. Find a game review and watch that play to see what I'm referring to.

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:31 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Rich wrote:
No one is going to triple team Hartline.


That phrase had me rolling for a few seconds.....bahahahahahaha

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:32 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Mak,
RT has to come up with the big play. It is the one area his game is lacking. If he doesn't, you're right there will be talk and players brought in to challenge him. BTW, go look at Manning and Brady in year 3.... then get back to me on that TD to INT ratio.




Sure gary. Year three td/int ratio

Brady 28td/14ints
Manning 33tds/15ints
RT we will see this year....


Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:32 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Rich wrote:
With zone coverage you are typically going to have 2-3 defenders in an 'area'.

No one is going to triple team Hartline.


You're marginalizing my comments with a generality. They were all within a couple feet of him, not just a zone 5-6 yards in the specific area. Two of them specifically were right there.

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Last edited by Rock Sexton on Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:32 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Darkwa should be the 4th RB.

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:33 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
With zone coverage you are typically going to have 2-3 defenders in an 'area'.

No one is going to triple team Hartline.


You're marginalizing my comments with a generality. They were all within a couple feet of him, not just a zone 5-6 yards in the specific area. Two of them specifically were right there.


It wasn't a couple of feet... I watched the play three times.

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:34 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Rich wrote:
No one is going to triple team Hartline.


That phrase had me rolling for a few seconds.....bahahahahahaha


Except when they see Tanny STARING DOWN his receiver, they're going to be in the area.

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Post Re: Game thread
Rich wrote:
It wasn't a couple of feet... I watched the play three times.


Anything you say Rich LOL. DB's never catch onto a QB staring down his receiver in order to creep up on the WR and make a play. Got it!

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:34 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
It wasn't a couple of feet... I watched the play three times.


Anything you say Rich LOL. DB's never catch onto a QB staring down his receiver in order to creep up on the WR and make a play. Got it!


Welcome back. :hithead:

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:35 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Rich wrote:
Welcome back. :hithead:


....... and there it is.

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:36 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
I took it to PM, Rock. I'm not playing your game.

Back to discussing the game.

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:38 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Gary, here are the stats for their 1st two years....Brady played 1 game his rookie year so I took yr 2 and 3.

RT 36td/30ints
manning 52tds/43ints
Brady 46tds/26ints


Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:40 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Rich wrote:
I took it to PM, Rock. I'm not playing your game.

Back to discussing the game.


There is no game.

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:40 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
There is no game.

Well, preseason.


Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:44 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Rich wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
There's always some kind of reason within the offense that Tannehill throws an INT. Never seen anything like it.


Oh brother...


I know right? Like there's not 14 to 20 worse QB's in the league right now


Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:03 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
darn the Moore love and Tanney hate is ridiculous..

Only NFLJunkie had a realistic comment. Kudos bro.

Tannehill needs to make the big play?
The strike to Clay was a thing of beauty, if he knew he was being chased down by the linebacker, he wouldnt have tried to stutter step the safety, broke to the outside and had more yardage

The defensive holding against Wallace....like the first pass of the game.. That should have been at least 10 yards.. and the angle the safety had coming up, if Wallace sliped the perpetrator, could have been an 80 yard TD.

The deep bomb to Wallace was off... but it looked like Wallace slowed down BEFORE he even turned to find the ball.

The drop that went right through hartlines hands on the 3rd down pass would have been a clutch chain mover, that was on Brian

The swing pass, almost fumble recovery to Lamar was not on Tanne.

Ryan went 13/21.... the INT was a boneheaded play.... and the long deep pass to Wallace could go either way.... that leaves 6 other incompletions... i put at least 4 of those on the WRs.

Dont think we need to say anything about Ryan needing to make the play... I think he's been doing his share.

Moreno looked like Ricky/Ronnie in new threads. darn looked good to have a RB in aqua again. Even if it was against a bad D, he was still pushing a pile and breaking tackles!

I want Landry off return duties... Williams earned that job. Or at least in my eyes!

I agree with cutting Egnew.... But Sims looked awful tonight. Starting to think that Egnew was jettisoned 1 TE too soon, cause i cant imagine him playing worse than that.

Looked Like Smith won the RG position too. At least the first drive was a thing of beauty on the Interior line.... the whole OL looked good until the Satele penalty.

RB Williams is the #3 RB. Im sold. Thomas, pack your bags.... your out dude.... Moreno runs with more power than you anyways..

Wake-Vernon..... I am nominating them for best DE duo in the NFL!! 3 sacks in the first half... Sign of things to come. I cant imagine a better pairing right now.

Did anyone notice Grimes at all tonight? I watched on a stream, i didnt notice anyone even bother challenging his side (could be wrong).

Ellerbe looked great on that fake spy outside blitz.

Wheeler needs to see a bench... I think every other LB looked better. (as Usual)


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Post Re: Game thread
Rock Sexton wrote:
There's always some kind of reason within the offense that Tannehill throws an INT. Never seen anything like it.


and I'm the exaggerator? LOL


Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:04 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
It's funny, before tonite John Clayton said that Ryan Tannehill was the best player so far in the preseason. Fast forward 1 game and the sky is falling and Tannehill stinks. LOL


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Post Re: Game thread
Quote:
Omar Kelly ✔ @OmarKelly

Ryan Tannehill said the miscommunication with Wallace on the deep ball was on him. He picked the wrong landmark. Wallace ran right route.


https://twitter.com/OmarKelly


Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:06 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
swerve13 wrote:
and I'm the exaggerator? LOL


Only going off of what I read from these boards. Mak and I listed the common reasons for Tanny's INT's. You can try to deny them, but go back and read the boards during conversations hovering around his turnovers. It's ground hogs day when we get to discussing them.

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Post Re: Game thread
swerve13 wrote:
It's funny, before tonite John Clayton said that Ryan Tannehill was the best player so far in the preseason. Fast forward 1 game and the sky is falling and Tannehill stinks. LOL


What does John Clayton have to do with anything?

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Post Re: Game thread
SkyHigh314 wrote:
darn the Moore love and Tanney hate is ridiculous..


So you follow that up with praising everything you saw in the game, except any plays by Moore. Not the strike to Hoskins or that beauty of a bomb to Williams.

But the INT he threw probably carries the most weight with you right?

This whole love/hate thing is so childish. Fact is we have two mediocre QB's on the roster it's just that one seems to put more points on the board with his offenses. That can't be denied.

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:20 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Rock Sexton wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
It's funny, before tonite John Clayton said that Ryan Tannehill was the best player so far in the preseason. Fast forward 1 game and the sky is falling and Tannehill stinks. LOL


What does John Clayton have to do with anything?


I'll trust his opinion of our quarterback over yours. Sorry.
Not like he played any worse than Romo who is a seasoned vet.


Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:21 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
SkyHigh314 wrote:
darn the Moore love and Tanney hate is ridiculous..


Hey, Sam Bradford went down grabbing his recently repaired left knee tonight. There may be some teams interested in Matt Moore, we need him to keep ballin

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:23 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Makchell wrote:
Hartline was trip-le covered


As I said, he was not triple covered. Hopefully this image comes across clear enough.

Hartline was single covered to start the play, the linebacker was in a zone covering the slot, passed him off and ran to the intermediate sideline, he was not a factor in the play at all. The third guy was a safety playing deep and definitely had no impact on the play. The CB simply undercut the route and the timing on the throw was off by Tannehill. The ball should have probably come out a half count earlier and been less flat.

It was a bad throw, not a bad decision. There were not three defenders within a couple of feet from Hartline.

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Post Re: Game thread
Rich wrote:
Makchell wrote:
Hartline was trip-le covered


As I said, he was not triple covered. Hopefully this image comes across clear enough.

Hartline was single covered to start the play, the linebacker was in a zone covering the slot, passed him off and ran to the intermediate sideline, he was not a factor in the play at all. The third guy was a safety playing deep and definitely had no impact on the play. The CB simply undercut the route and the timing on the throw was off by Tannehill. The ball should have probably come out a half count earlier and been less flat.


Our bad. Double covered.

On the replay when they showed the INT the safety looked closer, but that was obviously depth perception because the camera was facing the front side of those guys.

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:27 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
swerve13 wrote:
I'll trust his opinion of our quarterback over yours. Sorry.
Not like he played any worse than Romo who is a seasoned vet.


You will trust Clayton's opinion whenever it's convenient to your argument.

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:28 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Rock Sexton wrote:
Our bad. Double covered.

On the replay when they showed the INT the safety looked closer, but that was obviously depth perception because the camera was facing the front side of those guys.


He wasn't double covered either. That linebacker was coming from the hash mark after the ball was already in the air. He would not have been able to make a play on the ball (unless it had been tipped perhaps). It was great one on one coverage and a poor throw. Hartline did have a step on the CB for a difficult sideline over the top throw and half a count earlier that ball comes out and its a nice play. Half a count later and Hartline is getting blown up by the safety.

The slot receiver looks open (since the linebacker vacates the zone) short of the first down but no one else is open.

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:31 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
One more thing, the safe throw would have been to hit the slot guy in the middle of the field and let him pick up the first down. So while Tannehill's read wasn't terrible, he did have a safer option and that's one thing he needs to continue to work on... take the safe play.

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Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:35 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Rich wrote:
He wasn't double covered either. That linebacker was coming from the hash mark after the ball was already in the air. He would not have been able to make a play on the ball (unless it had been tipped perhaps). It was great one on one coverage and a poor throw. Hartline did have a step on the CB for a difficult sideline over the top throw and half a count earlier that ball comes out and its a nice play. Half a count later and Hartline is getting blown up by the safety.

The slot receiver looks open (since the linebacker vacates the zone) short of the first down but no one else is open.


I think I'm perhaps not using the right verbage. There weren't two defenders lined up over Hartline, so that part is correct. Alas Tanny stared down his receiver allowing both the DB and linebacker to read the play and make a break on the ball. In your second and third pictures right before the INT it shows both guys are close enough to make play. At that point they might have just as well lined up over him based on what Tanny chose to do with the ball.

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Last edited by Rock Sexton on Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:37 pm
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Post Re: Game thread
Hard to get excited when the Phins squeaked out a win against possibly the worst defense in the NFL.

Tannehill's numbers sucked. He will be the starter though. Moore's pick was awful, but he came right back with a strike.

I still think we r looking at 6-10, Philbin fired and a new regime. I wonder where that will mean for Tannehill?

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