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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:34 am 
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swerve13 wrote:
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CSN New England expects the Patriots to use OLB Jamie Collins and CB Darrelle Revis on Charles Clay in Sunday's Week 1 opener.
Clay will also see a lot of slot CB Kyle Arrington. But the Patriots know how dangerous Clay can be, and they game-planned to stop him last season by sticking Aqib Talib on him in Week 15. Clay caught one pass for six yards. Collins is an athletic freak, and we'd expect him to cover Clay most of the time when Revis is trailing Mike Wallace. Clay is more TE2 than low-end TE1 this week.


I think NE took away Hartline and Clay in the last matchup.... or maybe clay was hurt...can't remember. I do know they put their best on Hartline, even doubled him deep and left Wallace 1 on 1.
1. Lazor will do a much better job of adjusting. If Miami loses this game it will be due to the fact they can't stop the run or the short pass.


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:44 am 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
Quote:
CSN New England expects the Patriots to use OLB Jamie Collins and CB Darrelle Revis on Charles Clay in Sunday's Week 1 opener.
Clay will also see a lot of slot CB Kyle Arrington. But the Patriots know how dangerous Clay can be, and they game-planned to stop him last season by sticking Aqib Talib on him in Week 15. Clay caught one pass for six yards. Collins is an athletic freak, and we'd expect him to cover Clay most of the time when Revis is trailing Mike Wallace. Clay is more TE2 than low-end TE1 this week.


I think NE took away Hartline and Clay in the last matchup.... or maybe clay was hurt...can't remember. I do know they put their best on Hartline, even doubled him deep and left Wallace 1 on 1.
1. Lazor will do a much better job of adjusting. If Miami loses this game it will be due to the fact they can't stop the run or the short pass.



In the last match up, they put Aqib Talib one on one on Clay and he had 1 catch for 6 yards, but it was a critical catch that kept a late drive alive.

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:57 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:05 pm 
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No way the NE offense clicks on all cylinders week 1 on the road. We win in a close game. Different story when we play them in NE. We win going away.

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:36 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
I think NE took away Hartline
That wasn't very hard to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:50 am 
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Dphins4me wrote:
NFLJunkie wrote:
I think NE took away Hartline
That wasn't very hard to do.

I guess if you consider putting over the top coverage on Hartline all game "not hard to do". Hartline is what he is... a good possession WR in the mold of a Jordy Nelson.


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:34 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
Dphins4me wrote:
NFLJunkie wrote:
I think NE took away Hartline
That wasn't very hard to do.

I guess if you consider putting over the top coverage on Hartline all game "not hard to do". Hartline is what he is... a good possession WR in the mold of a Jordy Nelson.


The thing is, Nelson isn't a possession WR, he's a playmaker, in the last 3 years he's scored 30 TDs, in spite of missing some time a couple years ago, compared to Hartline's 6 TDs in the same span, and Hartline isn't that good of a possession WR with his low catch% in the low 60s.

Hartline is the classic overachiever, he is mentally better than he is physically, he has good hands, never gives up on a play and will give you everything he's got. He just is limited physically, he's not that fast or quick, which leads to the low %, he doesn't get much separation, and isn't strong, so he can't out muscle DBs for the ball. Combining these 2 deficiencies leads to his very low YAC, not fast or quick enough to get away from defenders, and not strong enough to break tackles.

He's a great player to have on a team, he was however over valued by the former FO and given a contract that he isn't worth.

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:51 pm 
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Finster wrote:
The thing is, Nelson isn't a possession WR, he's a playmaker, in the last 3 years he's scored 30 TDs, in spite of missing some time a couple years ago, compared to Hartline's 6 TDs in the same span


People always compare Hartline to Nelson because of skin color. Not the same player AT ALL!

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and Hartline isn't that good of a possession WR with his low catch% in the low 60s.


Better than Dez Bryant, Josh Gordon, Riley Cooper, AJ Green, Hakeem Nicks, Calvin Johnson, Denarius Moore and Vincent Jackson just to name a few.

Yes, some of those guys aren't possession receivers but there are some surprising names on that list that have a lower catch% then thrown at than Hartline.

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:13 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:09 pm 
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Hartline hasn't had Aaron Rodgers throwing him the ball either. One area of RT's game that has to improve is the number of plays he leaves on the field. He needs to start exploiting the deep half a little better. It hink we'll see a lot better numbers this year from Hartline. Just a hunch...but Lazor has a nice tempo in the offense.


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:05 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
The thing is, Nelson isn't a possession WR, he's a playmaker, in the last 3 years he's scored 30 TDs, in spite of missing some time a couple years ago, compared to Hartline's 6 TDs in the same span


People always compare Hartline to Nelson because of skin color. Not the same player AT ALL!

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and Hartline isn't that good of a possession WR with his low catch% in the low 60s.


Better than Dez Bryant, Josh Gordon, Riley Cooper, AJ Green, Hakeem Nicks, Calvin Johnson, Denarius Moore and Vincent Jackson just to name a few.

Yes, some of those guys aren't possession receivers but there are some surprising names on that list that have a lower catch% then thrown at than Hartline.


It's not surprising for deep threats and big WRs that are routinely making tough catches, hence the low %, but Hartline is not that type of receiver, he doesn't give you big plays, or catch 100+ passes as a reward for the low %.

Hartline compares more to Edelman or Bess, both 70% or better WRs, who also don't make big plays, although Edelman also can catch 100+ catches.

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:51 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
I guess if you consider putting over the top coverage on Hartline all game "not hard to do". Hartline is what he is... a good possession WR in the mold of a Jordy Nelson.

Glad you used mold of Nelson.

Not directed towards any comment. Just pointing something out.

Nelson - 30 TDs in the last 3 yrs.

Hartline 10 TDs in his entire 5 yr career.

Heck Nelson has avg per yr what Hartline has scored in his career.

I know Hartline has been able to just inch over the 1K mark the past two yrs, but yards do not win football games. Tds do and he simply has not been able to find the end zone over his career. Until he does and stops disappearing for majority of games, then I will continue to call him overpaid/over rated.


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:42 pm 
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Nelson.........a four-year extension worth $39 million, with $14.2 million guaranteed


Hartline......a five-year contract worth nearly $31 million with $12.5 million in guaranteed money





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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:05 am 
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Kev1321 wrote:
Nelson.........a four-year extension worth $39 million, with $14.2 million guaranteed


Hartline......a five-year contract worth nearly $31 million with $12.5 million in guaranteed money





:hithead:


Hartline, although a good player, is just not worth that type of money, I really like Hartline, he's just overpaid.

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:37 am 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
Hartline hasn't had Aaron Rodgers throwing him the ball either. One area of RT's game that has to improve is the number of plays he leaves on the field. He needs to start exploiting the deep half a little better. It hink we'll see a lot better numbers this year from Hartline. Just a hunch...but Lazor has a nice tempo in the offense.


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:05 am 
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I dunno how many times I've seen people irrationally compare Hartline to Nelson. Their games aren't even remotely similar and physically Hartline doesn't hold a candle to him. Amazing what skin color can lead people to conclude.

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Last edited by Rock Sexton on Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:09 am 
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Nelson's one of the best 5 or 6 receivers in the game. Hartline might be around 26th, 27th maybe


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:43 am 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
I think we'll see a lot better numbers this year from Hartline..


I hope. I'd like for him to be able to justify that pay check.


Last edited by Dphins4me on Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:40 am 
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swerve13 wrote:
Nelson's one of the best 5 or 6 receivers in the game. Hartline might be around 26th, 27th maybe


And is paid like it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:04 am 
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1
Calvin Johnson at
Wide Receiver
$16,207,143
2
Larry Fitzgerald at
Wide Receiver
$16,142,857
3
Mike Wallace at
Wide Receiver
$12,000,000
4
Vincent Jackson at
Wide Receiver
$11,111,111
5
Percy Harvin at
Wide Receiver
$10,707,500
6
Brandon Marshall at
Wide Receiver
$10,000,000
7
Jordy Nelson at
Wide Receiver
$9,762,500
8
Andre Johnson at
Wide Receiver
$9,685,714
9
Greg Jennings at
Wide Receiver
$9,000,000
10
Victor Cruz at
Wide Receiver
$8,600,000
11
Pierre Garcon at
Wide Receiver
$8,500,000
12
Antonio Brown at
Wide Receiver
$8,392,000
13
Mike Williams at
Wide Receiver
$7,924,000
14
Marques Colston at
Wide Receiver
$7,260,000
15
Stevie Johnson at
Wide Receiver
$7,250,000

Eric Decker at
Wide Receiver
$7,250,000
17
Golden Tate at
Wide Receiver
$6,200,000
18
Brian Hartline at
Wide Receiver
$6,155,000
19
Anquan Boldin at
Wide Receiver
$6,000,000

DeSean Jackson at
Wide Receiver
$6,000,000

Roddy White at
Wide Receiver
$6,000,000
22
Reggie Wayne at
Wide Receiver
$5,833,333
23
Danny Amendola at
Wide Receiver
$5,700,000
24
Michael Crabtree at
Wide Receiver
$5,333,333
25
Jeremy Maclin at
Wide Receiver
$5,250,000


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:25 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
I dunno how many times I've seen people irrationally compare Hartline to Nelson. Their games aren't even remotely similar and physically Hartline doesn't hold a candle to him. Amazing what skin color can lead people to conclude.


Hartline gives up an inch and 17lbs. Both have identical 40 times. One has had an all-pro QB throwing the ball the other has had a mixture of wannabes.


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:48 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
Hartline gives up an inch and 17lbs. Both have identical 40 times. One has had an all-pro QB throwing the ball the other has had a mixture of wannabes.


Only an inch and nearly 20lbs? Like I said. Jordy is built larger than Hartline and can actually gain you YAC. Not to mention his ability to run other routes besides sideline go and stutters is obvious.

A better QB would not turn wee little Hartline into a Nelson type player.

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 1:39 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
NFLJunkie wrote:
Hartline gives up an inch and 17lbs. Both have identical 40 times. One has had an all-pro QB throwing the ball the other has had a mixture of wannabes.


Only an inch and nearly 20lbs? Like I said. Jordy is built larger than Hartline and can actually gain you YAC. Not to mention his ability to run other routes besides sideline go and stutters is obvious.

A better QB would not turn wee little Hartline into a Nelson type player.


Id say Hartlines routes are as precise as anyones in the NFL. His hands are great. I doubt an inch and 17lbs affords you enough of a "larger build" to make a huge difference and if you're saying having an All-pro QB versus the combination of Henne and young Rt throwing to you doesn't make a difference, then wow... not sure any FACT would get in your way of disparaging Hartline.


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:04 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
Id say Hartlines routes are as precise as anyones in the NFL. His hands are great. I doubt an inch and 17lbs affords you enough of a "larger build" to make a huge difference and if you're saying having an All-pro QB versus the combination of Henne and young Rt throwing to you doesn't make a difference, then wow... not sure any FACT would get in your way of disparaging Hartline.


It's not disparaging. It's the truth. And don't lecture me about that when you spent about a week on your epic rant disparaging Jake Long simply because he lacked world class pecs, even daring to compare him to a 70 year old geriatric.

Your excuses for Hartline don't surprise me because most Dolphins fans live by the credo of blaming everyone else for player X's performance.

An inch taller and almost 20lbs of size is enough for Jordy to outmuscle DB's and safeties, hence better YAC ..... meanwhile Hartline trips when the wind blows. An elite level PLAYMAKER who scores TD's and doesn't get bullied around in the redzone. Tannehill was among the league's best in the red zone last year. Where were all of Hartline's scores? right.

Nelson's not overly reliant on a perfect QB making perfect passes most of the time. He's more versatile across all WR positions.

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Last edited by Rock Sexton on Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:06 pm 
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More like HOF qb.....And i'm not talking about the Hennster

Look i heard the same crap about Welker back in the day..


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:07 pm 
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Kev1321 wrote:
More like HOF qb.....And i'm not talking about the Hennster

Look i heard the same crap about Welker back in the day..


Ahhh I love this conversation. Marginalize player A in order to prop up player B and cherry pick examples to support the thinly presented thesis. Dolphins fans been doing it for decades.

How come every receiver in the Pats offense doesn't become elite level if automatically Brady is soley responsible for their success?

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:09 pm 
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n inch taller and almost 20lbs of size is enough for Jordy to outmuscle DB's and safeties, hence better YAC
.....So a smaller wr. cant do that...Please





Quote:
meanwhile Hartline trips when the wind blows
That's a load of :crap


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:10 pm 
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Kev1321 wrote:
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n inch taller and almost 20lbs of size is enough for Jordy to outmuscle DB's and safeties, hence better YAC
.....So a smaller wr. cant do that...Please

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meanwhile Hartline trips when the wind blows
That's a load of :crap


Where's all the YAC Kev? Where is it? Why have Dolphins fans been complaining about him going down too easily all the time since he's been here? Where are the TD's in the redzone?

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:14 pm 
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Where are all these tackles when the wind blows?

How many guys have back to back 1000yd seasons?
How many Rock? How many?


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:17 pm 
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Kev1321 wrote:
Where are all these tackles when the wind blows?

How many guys have back to back 1000yd seasons?
How many Rock? How many?


You won't answer the question I see. Not that I expected you to. And apparently you're short for understanding sarcasm. Yah Kev, there's footage out there showing a wind gust and Hartline tripping over it. OK Captain Literal!

:haha

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:19 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
Where are all these tackles when the wind blows?

How many guys have back to back 1000yd seasons?
How many Rock? How many?


You won't answer the question I see. Not that I expected you to. And apparently you're short for understanding sarcasm. Yah Kev, there's footage out there showing a wind gust and Hartline tripping over it. OK Captain Literal!

:haha

Ya you did make a pretty foolish comment didn't you.


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:21 pm 
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There is bigger things to worry about on this team than your 1000yd wr.


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:24 pm 
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Kev1321 wrote:
There is bigger things to worry about on this team than your 1000yd wr.


You mean like scoring actually TD's? :haha

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:25 pm 
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It's already a weird season. I agree with Kev.

I'm scared. :embarrassed:

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:30 pm 
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dolphinjim wrote:
It's already a weird season. I agree with Kev.

I'm scared. :embarrassed:


Coming from a guy that thought Henne was an all pro....Jim you're not helping j/k. :haha

I still luv ya Jim.


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:35 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
There is bigger things to worry about on this team than your 1000yd wr.


You mean like scoring actually TD's? :haha


Ya, we had the 26th offense because of the one guy that actually catches the ball...


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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:38 pm 
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Guys with back-to-back 1,000 yards receiving seasons between 2012-2013:

- Brandon Marshall (7 straight) 23 TD's
- Andre Johnson 9 TD's
- AJ Green (3 straight) 22 TD's
- Dez Bryant 25 TD's
- Demaryius Thomas 24 TD's
- Eric Decker 24 TD's
- Calvin Johnson (4 straight) 17 TD's
- Vincent Jackson (3 stright) 15 TD's


Guys with back-to-back from 2011-2012:

- Wes Welker 15 TD's
- Calvin Johnson 21 TD's
- Vincent Jackson 17 TD's
- Brandon Marshall 17 TD's
- AJ Green 18 TD's
- Victor Cruz 19 TD's
- Marques Colston (4 straight at that point) 18 TD's
- Stevie Johnson (3 straight at that point) 13 TD's
- Roddy White (6 straight at that point) 15 TD's
- Steve Smith 11 TD's

I honestly don't even need to continue. It's not an outlier accomplishment and Hartline severely lacks scoring production compared to all of them with his whopping 5 TD's. What a top shelf playmaker. LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:39 pm 
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Kev1321 wrote:
Ya, we had the 26th offense because of the one guy that actually catches the ball...


The one guy who catches them inbetween the 20's and NOT in the endzone.

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:42 pm 
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Brian Hartline was 44th in yards/reception last year. I mean seriously? LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Fins-Pats Game
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:46 pm 
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QBs benefitting from YAC by their receivers is not an indictment of their QB skills. It obviously depends on what kind of scheme they run, but they also have to have the ability to place the ball and make quick decisions.

Quarterbacks that had lower percentages of their passing yards from YAC were in passing offenses that ranked in the bottom half of the league. Or in Tampa Bay’s case, Mike Glennon had the least and his passing offense was ranked 32nd!

Nick Foles had more than half of his 2,891 passing yards come from his receivers after the catch. He benefitted from the scheme, but also from the likes of Jackson (9th in WR YAC), Celek (8th in TE YAC) and McCoy (3rd in RB YAC).

Foles’ other top two WRs, Cooper and Avant, ranked 46th and 97th respectively (in WR YAC).

He’ll get Celek and McCoy back and will have Sproles and Ertz raring to go, but he will need someone from the WR corps to step up and replace Jackson’s YAC ability.

Will that be Jeremy Maclin? We’ve yet to see him in Chip Kelly’s offense, but to date in his career he has never been ranked higher than 31st (WR YAC) in this category (30th, 38th, 31st and 33rd from 2009 – 2012 respectively, per Pro Football Focus)


- See more at: http://eaglesaddict.com/2014/06/nick-fo ... AthrZu4qT4


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