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 Post subject: PFF on Ryan Tannehill
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:05 am 
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Tannehill has suffered from seven dropped passes already this season (only Joe Flacco has experienced more). He has lost 113 yards of passes due to drops (at a minimum – that only counts the yards in the air the ball traveled, not the potential yards after the catch the receiver lost by dropping the ball). That is more than any other passer in the league, including Flacco. If you add those plays into his official stats his passer rating jumps twenty points into the 90s. Sure, you could do that for every quarterback, but as we have already pointed out, Tanneill has suffered more than most from his receivers not helping him out.


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New England @ Miami | Q4, 5:51

The Dolphins won this game comfortably in the end, but with 5:51 remaining in the game Miami was up by just three. With a first down at New England’s 28-yard line they decided it was time for a shot into the end zone, and they had the perfect play drawn up for it.

After a play action fake TE Dion Sims had been able to work his way across traffic and then turn up field towards the end zone. He had athletic linebacker Jamie Collins trailing him, but there was space there to make the throw. Tannehill let fly from the 38-yard line and dropped the pass perfectly into the waiting hands of Sims, who couldn’t bring it in before being taken to ground by Collins.

This was a touchdown pass, and a fantastic throw, that statistics don’t give Tannehill credit for. This pass alone would push Tannehill’s passer rating for the season into the 80s and make his raw statistics look healthier.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:06 am 
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How about the deep pass to Mike Wallace against Darrelle Revis that Wallace couldn’t get both feet in before stepping out of bounds? At this point in the game the Dolphins were actually trailing by 10 points and Tannehill flicked the ball almost 50-yards in the air, over a trailing Revis and into the back of the end zone.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:07 am 
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It’s important to make the point, however, that we’re not trying to say Tannehill has been fantastic. Tannehill has also had some very bad passes that have received heavy downgrades. Also against the Patriots he had a chance to hit another touchdown and instead threw an interception, handing the ball to the Patriots to begin a drive they later scored from.

New England @ Miami | Q2, 13:06

After a play-action fake Tannehill looked to his right, but Revis had blanketed his intended receiver, Brian Hartline, on the play up the right sideline. Tannehill came to his second read and saw Mike Wallace break free on a post pattern because the safety had abandoned the middle of the field while reading his eyes initially.

This is a relatively routine throw. As you can see, he has a large area of real estate into which he can put the ball and allow Wallace to run away from the coverage, but instead he underthrows it badly, allowing the corner Alfonzo Dennard to intercept it unchallenged.

There’s no denying this is a terrible pass, even with late pressure from Donta Hightower closing from his right, but he was heavily downgraded for it and yet still grades pretty well overall thanks to the balance of positive plays he has made this season.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:08 am 
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After two weeks of the season the ranking are what they are – vulnerable to being influenced by a couple of big plays either way, or simply a run of good or bad form over two games that a player will not sustain over sixteen. The difference between being No. 3 in the rankings and No. 15 are probably three or four throws – we are dealing with very small sample sizes here, but we shouldn’t dismiss the play of Tannehill just because the raw numbers don’t match. Are we saying Ryan Tannehill is better than Peyton Manning because he has graded higher over two games? Of course not.

But Tannehill has made tougher throws more frequently and runs an offense far less predicated on three-step drop quick passes. While Manning has averaged less than two seconds per pass, the quickest in the league, Tannehill has the ball in his hands on average half a second longer per passing attempt. That’s a middle of the pack figure but more importantly it’s extra time that pass rush has to get to him and make his life tougher. Manning has felt pressure on just 10 snaps this season while Tannehill has had 25 plays where he has been pressured.

The point here isn’t to try and make out that Ryan Tannehill is in some way better than Peyton Manning. Nobody at PFF believes that and if you made each staff member GM for the day and asked them to pick one of those quarterbacks to win you a game, each and every one would choose Manning. The point is to illustrate that over two games there are reasons why Tannehill has received a higher grade than Manning and a higher grade than his passer rating suggests.

Football is a complex game, with a lot of moving parts and interdependent pieces all trying to come together with the same goal. The Miami passing attack hasn’t been firing on all cylinders – there have been miscues across the board that have resulted in some pretty pedestrian passing statistics for Tannehill, but it’s important that we realize how deceptive those statistics can be and actually look beyond them – to the tape.

When you grade Tannehill throw by throw and then compare him to the rest of the league’s quarterbacks by the same measure, he looks a lot better. Maybe he won’t sustain that over sixteen games, but let’s not dismiss the man’s performance because of his passer rating.



https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... -week-2-3/

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:28 am 
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Rich,

You need to stop making sense and using facts and logic. When the haters wake up from their naps, they will be mad.

:yay:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:30 am 
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But Rich, you didn't hear that Tannehill sucks and is the second coming of Henne?

You should know that posting "facts" about Tannehill isn't real!!!

The lynch mob has already strung up the rope!

Lol....nice post and I think about that throw to Charles Clay in stride against NE too that was blatantly dropped as well and that one could have went into huge yards as well.

The Buffalo game the one play "I thought" could have been a game changer was that throw to Lamar Miller on a dead run that to me looked like he could have nothing but open grass in front of him....only for the ball to be dropped and we go out on downs.

No question, Tannehill has to fix some of his throwing the ball behind receivers, but IMO fans blame Lazor for the play calling and also blame Tannehill when in reality, Lazor makes a brilliant call, when Tannehill DOES actually deliver the ball perfectly and then our receiver conveniently drops the ball.

This is why I am not panicking. I think Buffalo certainly out played us overall and that was credit to them, Miami definitely needs to figure them out, but I am not crying for Matt Moore and saying Lazor's job is on the line after two flippin games.....


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:39 am 
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Finhead34 wrote:
But Rich, you didn't hear that Tannehill sucks and is the second coming of Henne?

You should know that posting "facts" about Tannehill isn't real!!!

The lynch mob has already strung up the rope!

Lol....nice post and I think about that throw to Charles Clay in stride against NE too that was blatantly dropped as well and that one could have went into huge yards as well.

The Buffalo game the one play "I thought" could have been a game changer was that throw to Lamar Miller on a dead run that to me looked like he could have nothing but open grass in front of him....only for the ball to be dropped and we go out on downs.

No question, Tannehill has to fix some of his throwing the ball behind receivers, but IMO fans blame Lazor for the play calling and also blame Tannehill when in reality, Lazor makes a brilliant call, when Tannehill DOES actually deliver the ball perfectly and then our receiver conveniently drops the ball.

This is why I am not panicking. I think Buffalo certainly out played us overall and that was credit to them, Miami definitely needs to figure them out, but I am not crying for Matt Moore and saying Lazor's job is on the line after two flippin games.....


You are not immature and your are knowledgeable, that is why you aren't panicking.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:42 am 
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I love you guys talking about facts when it's all PFF opinions.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:44 am 
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Rich,

You need to stop making sense and using facts and logic. When the haters wake up from their naps, they will be mad


Sp people that have different opinions than you are haters and are sleeping. I remember you bashing everyone when you were a Henne "lover" back in the day. BTW PFF grades are subjective and are not facts. The fact of the matter is that the entire team is inconsistant. RT with is accuracy, WRs dropping passes, DL not getting pressure, coaching not adjusting during games, ETC, ECT.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:03 am 
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Finhead34 wrote:
But Rich, you didn't hear that Tannehill sucks and is the second coming of Henne?

You should know that posting "facts" about Tannehill isn't real!!!

The lynch mob has already strung up the rope!

Lol....nice post and I think about that throw to Charles Clay in stride against NE too that was blatantly dropped as well and that one could have went into huge yards as well.

The Buffalo game the one play "I thought" could have been a game changer was that throw to Lamar Miller on a dead run that to me looked like he could have nothing but open grass in front of him....only for the ball to be dropped and we go out on downs.

No question, Tannehill has to fix some of his throwing the ball behind receivers, but IMO fans blame Lazor for the play calling and also blame Tannehill when in reality, Lazor makes a brilliant call, when Tannehill DOES actually deliver the ball perfectly and then our receiver conveniently drops the ball.

This is why I am not panicking. I think Buffalo certainly out played us overall and that was credit to them, Miami definitely needs to figure them out, but I am not crying for Matt Moore and saying Lazor's job is on the line after two flippin games.....


Okay, because being critical of RT is now lynching him, what happens when the team goes 8-8 with this type of up and down all season? Philbin goes, Lazor goes, Coyle Goes...and in all likelihood, RT goes. We've been doing this now for what? 15 years? 18 QBs? If the heir apparent is going to step up, year 3 would be nice. Dropped balls are an uninspired team. Figure out why they're uninspired and it will be fixed.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:17 am 
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Makchell wrote:
I love you guys talking about facts when it's all PFF opinions.


:yay:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:59 am 
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Watching that video, and maybe I'm not seeing it correctly, but I don't see how the throw led Wallace out of bounds. Looks like he just didn't realize how close he was.

Fact: Tannehill has not played well nor has he shown good ball placement on a lot of passes

Fact: The receivers have dropped very catchable passes

Fact: Tannehill has the best tools of any QB in Miami since Marino

Fact: Tannehill has not produced the best stats nor the most wins (in a season) since Marino

That is really all we have. We can debate potential, fault, etc. Heavily dissecting two games isn't solving anything. If Tannehill plays better, by the eye test, over the next 4 or 5 weeks then we all feel better. If he doesn't we start debating who Miami should draft, trade for or sign next offseason.

Pretty simple in my book.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:54 am 
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Watching that video, and maybe I'm not seeing it correctly, but I don't see how the throw led Wallace out of bounds. Looks like he just didn't realize how close he was.


This is being critical....but he had 3 full steps on Revis...why not lead him inside...there was no safety


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:04 pm 
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The 12 best receivers in the NFL catch that touchdown.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:05 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
Rich,

You need to stop making sense and using facts and logic. When the haters wake up from their naps, they will be mad


Sp people that have different opinions than you are haters and are sleeping. I remember you bashing everyone when you were a Henne "lover" back in the day. BTW PFF grades are subjective and are not facts. The fact of the matter is that the entire team is inconsistant. RT with is accuracy, WRs dropping passes, DL not getting pressure, coaching not adjusting during games, ETC, ECT.


It's not OPINION, it's PHOTO AND VIDEO PROOF.

Unless somebody is blind, or just a hater, the pictures don't lie.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:06 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
The 12 best receivers in the NFL catch that touchdown.


Scott Chandler made a much tougher catch.

Wallace is a one trick pony.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:24 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
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Watching that video, and maybe I'm not seeing it correctly, but I don't see how the throw led Wallace out of bounds. Looks like he just didn't realize how close he was.


This is being critical....but he had 3 full steps on Revis...why not lead him inside...there was no safety


True.

My point was that he hit Wallace in stride where Wallace was going...and on the run. It was a good pass. Maybe not perfect, but good enough to not fault him.

As I said in another thread its becoming pointless to debate fault...time for the whole team to start playing better and getting on the same page.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:55 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
I love you guys talking about facts when it's all PFF opinions.


Visual evidence has been provided. Statistical analysis has been provided.

Passes have been dropped and if those passes are caught, statistically Tannehill is sitting with a 90+ rating and 5 TDs to 2 INTs.

Where is the "opinion" in that?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:57 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
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Watching that video, and maybe I'm not seeing it correctly, but I don't see how the throw led Wallace out of bounds. Looks like he just didn't realize how close he was.


This is being critical....but he had 3 full steps on Revis...why not lead him inside...there was no safety


Because he made the throw on the run while having Vince Wilfork bearing down on him. It's not like he could reset. Not to mention, if he waits one more second Wallace is running to the locker room.

Wallace should have made the catch and gotten his feet in bounds.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:59 pm 
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dolphinjim wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
The 12 best receivers in the NFL catch that touchdown.


Scott Chandler made a much tougher catch.

Wallace is a one trick pony.


Wallace made a better catch too, I guess that makes him better than himself.

:hithead:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:01 pm 
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I think Wallce made a one handed catch for a TD. Hmmmmm


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:01 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
I think Wallce made a one handed catch for a TD. Hmmmmm


Zactly.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:02 pm 
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Haters are gonna hate no matter what Rich. Facts don't interest them.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:05 pm 
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dolphinjim wrote:
Haters are gonna hate no matter what Rich. Facts don't interest them.


You are absolutely hilarious.

:bravo:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:05 pm 
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Haters are gonna hate no matter what Rich. Facts don't interest them.

What facts don't interest them? PFF is a subjective review on players. The throw to Wallace is up for debate, to me, it was catchable, but the throw could have been better. One of them needs to make a play by either throwing the ball better or coming down with 2 feet in bounds. The whole team is playing inconsistant right now, we are not clicking from the coaches, to the QB (no matter what you think), to the WRs, to the Dd and now add a punter and special teams.


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Finster wrote:
Makchell wrote:
I think Wallce made a one handed catch for a TD. Hmmmmm


Zactly.


Unfortunately there are more mistakes than great catches. I was very impressed with Wallace's touchdown catch this weekend. Maybe we'll see more of them. #1 receivers are expected to make great catches. That's what they are paid to do.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:17 pm 
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He's got Chris Chambers hands. Drops the easy ones, catches the difficult ones.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:20 pm 
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Its funny, both of Wallace's TD grabs are passes I don't think we'd expect him to make. Yet he's had simple passes bounce off his chest and helmet dating back to the preseason.

Inconsistency appears to be contagious - from the HC to the QB to the WRs/TEs. Hmmm.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:59 pm 
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Inconsistency appears to be contagious - from the HC to the QB to the WRs/TEs. Hmmm.

You've got it. I've been saying this on numerous threads, the entire is inconsistant. We must improve this or it's house cleaning time again.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:24 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Its funny, both of Wallace's TD grabs are passes I don't think we'd expect him to make. Yet he's had simple passes bounce off his chest and helmet dating back to the preseason.

Inconsistency appears to be contagious - from the HC to the QB to the WRs/TEs. Hmmm.


I don't disagree, but I will say that Wallace has always been like that, my brother's a Steelers fan and I follow them a little bit, he's always had these kind of inconsistencies, but he's not a great "hands" guy, he's mostly a body catcher.

Wallace isn't an elite WR, he needs high accuracy from the QB, he's a great flanker, he can take the top off a defense, but he'll always be an inconsistent catcher.

I don't however disagree with your statement, it is contagious.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:46 pm 
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I just find it funny that he's making the most difficult catches but struggling with the easy ones at times.

He's the equivalent of Rob Deere back in the early 90s. He'll bat .190 and barely see 1st base, but give him a 100 MPH fast ball and that thing is traveling 500 ft every time. Just bizarre.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:48 pm 
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Finster wrote:
but he's not a great "hands" guy, he's mostly a body catcher.


There's the understatement of the year.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:19 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
Inconsistency appears to be contagious - from the HC to the QB to the WRs/TEs. Hmmm.

You've got it. I've been saying this on numerous threads, the entire is inconsistant. We must improve this or it's house cleaning time again.


Sure they all do, but the QB naturally is the one looked to provide it first. He's the one with the ball in his hands on every offensive play. He's still erratic, hence the passing offense is erratic.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:07 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Makchell wrote:
Inconsistency appears to be contagious - from the HC to the QB to the WRs/TEs. Hmmm.

You've got it. I've been saying this on numerous threads, the entire is inconsistant. We must improve this or it's house cleaning time again.


Sure they all do, but the QB naturally is the one looked to provide it first. He's the one with the ball in his hands on every offensive play. He's still erratic, hence the passing offense is erratic.


There are plenty of receivers throughout the NFL, past or present, who had or are having excellent careers without even a good QB throwing to them. They make the plays that are there to be made.

So, just because the QB is off on some throws, it doesn't excuse Lamar Miller, Charles Clay, Brian Hartline or Dion Sims from catching passes that are placed right in their bread basket.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:31 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
Makchell wrote:
Inconsistency appears to be contagious - from the HC to the QB to the WRs/TEs. Hmmm.

You've got it. I've been saying this on numerous threads, the entire is inconsistant. We must improve this or it's house cleaning time again.


Sure they all do, but the QB naturally is the one looked to provide it first. He's the one with the ball in his hands on every offensive play. He's still erratic, hence the passing offense is erratic.


There are plenty of receivers throughout the NFL, past or present, who had or are having excellent careers without even a good QB throwing to them. They make the plays that are there to be made.

So, just because the QB is off on some throws, it doesn't excuse Lamar Miller, Charles Clay, Brian Hartline or Dion Sims from catching passes that are placed right in their bread basket.


Amen!! Preach on Rich!! :bravo:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:41 pm 
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To say that throw to Wallace "should" have been better is just silly. The QB's job is to give the WR a chance to make a play.

Wallace had every chance in the world to make a play, and just didn't. The "play makers" on this team are posers.

I'm still hopeful for a 9 or 10 win season, and I'm certainly not ready to throw in the towel after just two games. We do need to see more from our "game changers" though - or it'll be a long season.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:14 pm 
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It's up to Tannehill to initiate the throw, but once it's in the air Tannehill can't do squat. The best receivers in the game make their QB's look great, and the best QB's in the league make their receivers look great. So far no one is doing anyone any favors.

Also with the New England win, aside from Moreno running it down their throats, we can't forget we had 2 turnovers off the sack fumbles. We had no turnovers at all against Buffalo..a key factor in changing the momentum.

Bad special teams not only gave up points on the return TD, but also the muffed punt prevents a drive from happening, when we were down 2 scores, and eventually gave them 3 more points. It's got to get better. Simple as that. If we are starting drives at our 35+ the confidence sky rockets.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:52 pm 
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Rich wrote:

So, just because the QB is off on some throws, it doesn't excuse Lamar Miller, Charles Clay, Brian Hartline or Dion Sims from catching passes that are placed right in their bread basket.


Lets not forget the 20 yard pass to Jarvis Landry that bounced off his chest in the Patriots game. While I agree Tannehill struggles with accuracy at times, he is not getting much help from the WR's. What made it even harder to stomach is watching Sammy Watkins pull down passes that were 3' over his head.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:56 pm 
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bobby0112 wrote:
Rich wrote:

So, just because the QB is off on some throws, it doesn't excuse Lamar Miller, Charles Clay, Brian Hartline or Dion Sims from catching passes that are placed right in their bread basket.


Lets not forget the 20 yard pass to Jarvis Landry that bounced off his chest in the Patriots game. While I agree Tannehill struggles with accuracy at times, he is not getting much help from the WR's. What made it even harder to stomach is watching Sammy Watkins pull down passes that were 3' over his head.


That's because Watkins is an elite WR, we don't have one yet.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:36 pm 
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That's because Watkins is an elite WR, we don't have one yet.


A rookie with 2 games under his belt is now elite? :haha


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