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 Post subject: A different prespective
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:29 am 
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I wouldn't be too eager to throw the baby out with the bath water. Philbin lets his coaches call the shots, as he should in most cases. There is a simple fix. Hire Rex Ryan as the DC. There is no question he's going to be fired. Miami needs a good DC. Give Hickey another year to add depth. Lazor is salvageable and Philbin is a figurehead...nothing more.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:38 am 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
I wouldn't be too eager to throw the baby out with the bath water. Philbin lets his coaches call the shots, as he should in most cases. There is a simple fix. Hire Rex Ryan as the DC. There is no question he's going to be fired. Miami needs a good DC. Give Hickey another year to add depth. Lazor is salvageable and Philbin is a figurehead...nothing more.


Fair point and its something to think about. Problem is its a one year fix. Rex makes that defense look great he's back on the HC interview list next off season. Eventually Miami will have to accept that Philbin may be a nice guy but he's getting out-coached on a consistent basis.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:01 am 
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I personally don't think you can be successful in the NFL with a figurehead HC, he has to be a leader.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:18 am 
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I've said this before, but maybe it's worth repeating..........if the Phins fire Coyle, then Philbin needs to go. That's Philbin's second top coordinator to be fired in a about a year. At some point, the mess has to roll to the top. We need to stop trying to make a system work around Philbin.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:30 am 
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shularino wrote:
I've said this before, but maybe it's worth repeating..........if the Phins fire Coyle, then Philbin needs to go. That's Philbin's second top coordinator to be fired in a about a year. At some point, the mess has to roll to the top. We need to stop trying to make a system work around Philbin.


Exactly. Ross needs to either bring in an experienced HC to see if it is simply misuse of talent or hit the reset button and let new HC/GM have total control. The latter might mean dramatic roster changes. I stress the word "might" in that situation.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:45 am 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
I wouldn't be too eager to throw the baby out with the bath water. Philbin lets his coaches call the shots, as he should in most cases. There is a simple fix. Hire Rex Ryan as the DC. There is no question he's going to be fired. Miami needs a good DC. Give Hickey another year to add depth. Lazor is salvageable and Philbin is a figurehead...nothing more.


Philben sets the pulse of the team. We would always be playing .500 ball or worst. I think his teams will always underachieve. The team gets better talent-wise every year, but we still hover at the same record.

Coaching defense is not Rex Ryan's plan B. He either wants to be a head coach or he'll become an NFL Analyst. The NFL media loves him and from what I hear he has job offers from them.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:14 am 
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I disagree to a point. Firing Coyle is the only scenario where Philbin stays. It's the right move based on the defensive meltdown and the talent already here.

And Rex Ryan will be hired 5 mins after he is fired. He will not be a coordinator anywhere so remove that fantasy from your brain. If he's not hired as a HC, he'll be in TV for a year or two.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:19 am 
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Hire Rex Ryan as the DC.


NO WAY Rex Ryan just accepts a DC job. I have heard numerous reports multiple NFL teams will target him as a HC AND the networks want to hire him as an NFL Analyst and he will make great money with that option too.

DC would be a great thought, but he has too many better options.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:27 am 
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Ok, so I'm on an island here. It isn't an excuse, but injuries were bad along the OL this year. Defense is the only unit that underachieved. I guess my issue is I really like what Hickey did in his first season and it is a sure thing that if a big name like Harbaugh comes, he'll want full control.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:30 am 
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If Ross goes after Harbaugh, I will bet he will have to offer an unprecedented $9-$10 Million a year to land him PLUS that full control of the team. If you have the chance to get an upper caliber head coach I am afraid this is what it will take....


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:45 am 
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Big Dave wrote:
Philben sets the pulse of the team.


This is the biggest issue that I see. Does Joe have a pulse? I was going to reply with an image of a flatlined pulse, but my forum skills are lacking.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:03 pm 
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I think there is a point to be made about continuity. If the Phins bring in another head coach then the team goes in another direction. The Phins may not have the personnel for that direction so jettison the good players the Phins have because they don't fit the system to make room for the players that hopefully do.

Wash, rinse, repeat as some have noted on a 3 year cycle.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:05 pm 
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I think Flatline Joe is an appropriate nickname. Would hate yet another regime change, but I am particularly on board with Harbaugh if Ross can even get his attention.

However, this time around, Ross will need to back the Brink's truck up right away because we certainly don't need to see some Goat Rodeo Circus go on with interviewing coaches only for the Dolphins to get stood up again.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:02 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
I think there is a point to be made about continuity. If the Phins bring in another head coach then the team goes in another direction. The Phins may not have the personnel for that direction so jettison the good players the Phins have because they don't fit the system to make room for the players that hopefully do.

Wash, rinse, repeat as some have noted on a 3 year cycle.


A good coach would bring in a good staff and work with the talent they have. Harbaugh basically did that in San Francisco his first year. Ryan did the same thing with the Jets except he had a rookie QB.

But you are correct, if Miami goes a certain route (maybe college coach) that guy might restock the roster with people already familiar with his system.

I certainly would like to see change but the beat writers are even saying that if Ross doesn't land Harbaugh he might just let Philbin ride out another year. We might have to start accepting that reality.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:12 pm 
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if Ross doesn't land Harbaugh he might just let Philbin ride out another year. We might have to start accepting that reality.



If that is a true statement and move by Ross, the logic of "riding" it out another year would just be deflating.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:21 pm 
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Finhead34 wrote:
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if Ross doesn't land Harbaugh he might just let Philbin ride out another year. We might have to start accepting that reality.



If that is a true statement and move by Ross, the logic of "riding" it out another year would just be deflating.


If Tannehill can combine the deep throws we saw in NE with the efficient game management then he'll have the team taking another step. Problem is a talented team and good QB will be propping up a mediocre coach and they'll become a perennial wild card team that doesn't get out of the first round. Kind of like where San Diego is now.

It will be bigger tease than what we currently watch.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:26 pm 
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I agree Jammer. It just stinks that we have to start thinking about another HC change, but I think it is necessary.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:39 pm 
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When his O cord's gives away the play with the snap, IE: GOGO GO, the headcoach needs to step in, that's his job. Joe needs to go.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:55 pm 
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Granted. But if he lets the coordinator do his job he can fire him based on how well or how poorly he did the job. If he interferred, then he would suffer the blame. In this case, upgrade the DC and this team can land in the playoffs.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:29 pm 
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Finhead34 wrote:
I think Flatline Joe is an appropriate nickname.


:haha

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:40 pm 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
Ok, so I'm on an island here. It isn't an excuse, but injuries were bad along the OL this year. Defense is the only unit that underachieved. I guess my issue is I really like what Hickey did in his first season and it is a sure thing that if a big name like Harbaugh comes, he'll want full control.


I support the OL injuries. And even on defense where LB's and DB's were injured

I do not like Coyle playing a soft defense.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:16 pm 
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A hc's job is to manage the game. Philbin hasnt done that. Neither did sparano. We need a coach that knows the basics of calling timeouts


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:44 am 
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Finster wrote:
I personally don't think you can be successful in the NFL with a figurehead HC, he has to be a leader.


End.of.discussion.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:18 am 
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It is never the end of the discussion. I remember being laughed at by the majority on here for being pissed that management traded Vontae Davis. Davis has proved I was right. The "right" headcoach will require full control. I just don't like the idea of getting rid of Hickey after a pretty good off-season and draft.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:21 am 
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NFLJunkie wrote:
I remember being laughed at by the majority on here for being pissed that management traded Vontae Davis.


Why would you be pissed? We got Eggnog out of that deal man...err, maybe that was the Marshall trade...but either way though.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:56 pm 
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I was pissed because Davis was a complete CB. Stuffs the run and does a good job in coverage. I believe Miami got a 3rd round pick for Davis and drafted Vernon. Not sure. In any case, you don't trade top CBs for what a gamble in the draft....especially after letting Smith walk via FA.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:12 pm 
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http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nf ... /20590981/

By the sounds of this article Gary, Vontae WAS having issues off the field in Miami and this trade ended up being a blessing for him. We got a 2nd round pick in return and where I disagree is a "good coach" would have found a way to drill it in a young Vontae's head on how to be a professional in the NFL vs. just kicking him away.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:11 am 
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Hey Junkie- This is not an attack on you.... But what has Hickey really done?

He attacked the FREE AGENT MARKET TO FILL NEEDS.
Big target was an injury prone talented LT- check.
Risk-reward prove it contracts with Delmas, Moreno, Finnegan- check
Depth at OT- Fox- check

How'd all those play out. Albert, Finnegan, Moreno, and Delmas have all missed significant time with injuries, 3 of which were season ending. Injury prone, low risk signings that backfired since there are now gaping holes at those positions.

DRAFT- James, Landry, Fede, Turner, etc
Everyone and their mothers knew Miami had to go OT in the first round. I would give him a pat on the back for not panicking and trading up to grab one of the top LT's, and James has definitely worked out nicely. No question about it, but that move was predictable from December last season.

Landry was a nice find, real nice find. Fede was a good late drafter too. What happened to our "stud, future Zach Thomas MLB"?? Last time i checked, Miami started some guy name Sheppard that was signed off the street 3 days before hand against New England... guess that pick didnt pan out.

Undrafted FA's- I guess the prize here was Damien Williams.... And hes gotten a chance to prove himself. That missed TD last week explains exactly why he wasnt drafted. Not a bad little acorn, but obviously a project.... not an instant starter.

SUMMER- Satele
Signing Satele was a good move that worked out nicely (but he did get hurt). Offering a contract and letting him sweat it out til he signed was a good move as well. Satele paid dividends for exactly what it was. Temp help while Pouncey remained out. Not sure if we will need him going forward, but was a nice move.

Trade Deadline-------- CRICKETS!!!
There were RBs out there- Doug Martin to wave that flag. The bucs would have parted with him for peanuts.
Opportunities were out there in a few departments, no one pulled the trigger.

MID SEASON------ CRICKETS!!!
Ray Rice is, and was still available. Not saying its the greatest move, but bring him in, see what he has, and how much in shape he is. This is a playoffs or bust year.... but Hickey hasnt done squat since August.


So after all is said and done. What has Hickey really done?
He drafted a guy we all expected Miami to draft. He batted about .500 for instant impact in the draft which is nice, but average. FA was no big splash other than Albert, and every FA brought in has officially missed significant time on low risk contracts. Satele is probably the highlight of Hickey's tenure so far, and if that is the crowning jewel on this guy.... well thats a big "Meh!". He hasnt done anything since the season started.... nothing at all. So Junkie, you are praising his work back in April.....

If you want to credit him for the contracts? Well, I would say Dawn Aponte might have more of a hand in that than Hickey does..... soooo

I am not saying I do not like Hickey. All I am saying is he filled holes with risks, drafted decent and actually had a pulse on what the team actually needed. Which would make him about as good of a GM as anyone on this forum. Nothing special. Seriously, It is an UPGRADE over Ireland, no question about it..... But being better than some one who was just awful is no reason for praise.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:00 am 
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Sky - as you mentioned James, Landry and Fede.... and yes James was a reach where they took him. I remember watching at how the draft gurus were pretty shocked that he was taken there. Landry, again super find.
Finnegan - yes he's been injured but was a good stop gap player.
Miami wouldn't have won 6 games without Satele.
Re-signed Grimes
Signed Knowshon Moreno


So maybe it is just my long term exposure to the worst GM in history with Ireland.... but that is a pretty stellar first season.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:02 am 
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Karl - It definitely worked out for Davis. But you can't keep getting rid of talented players like that and expect to do well in the NFL. Everyone on here was "glad" Ireland got a 3rd rounder for him. Again, it is nice to be proven correct. Davis is a bluechip CB.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:17 am 
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I was upset with that move too

I think Hickey did ok. We shall see what the other players he drafted will do next year.

The OT was a reach.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:50 pm 
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Yea Junkie.
I agree with your statement. I wasnt bashing you.

All I am saying is that I think we are blinded by the fact that Ireland sucked so bad for so long. Hickey did everything he was supposed to do, and everything we wanted to get done..... But he really didnt do anything special.

We are just partial to some one who actually had a pulse for what the team needed..... but he really didnt do anything phenomenal.... so All i am saying is he was average! LOL

Average is better than what we are used to


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:36 pm 
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SkyHigh314 wrote:
What happened to our "stud, future Zach Thomas MLB"?? Last time i checked, Miami started some guy name Sheppard that was signed off the street 3 days before hand against New England... guess that pick didnt pan out.


How can we even know for sure? The coaching staff is unwilling to give younger guys playing time until absolutely boxed into a corner- so maybe Tripp is a future stud that is riding the pine. Jelani Jenikins comes to mind.

Secondly, in my opinion our DC plays people out of position constantly, so how can we really evaluate these guys? Grimes and Finnegan playing soft coverage is a joke- those 2 guys are feisty and our defense hasn't highlighted their strengths. Give Dion a try at OLB already.

Overall, I think Hickey brought good overall depth to the team, some quality starters, and maybe a couple, or just one, impact player. Our coaching staff has made it hard to truly evaluate this roster.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:44 pm 
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HAHA- +5 for VT right there. 100% agree.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:20 pm 
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Why oh why does Dion Jordan not play OLB - This kid was a #3 overall pick

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:17 pm 
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So far Im happy with Hickey. Even Billy Turner was a good upside pick that our staff cant seem to coach up.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:50 am 
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swerve there really is no reason to NOT BE HAPPY with Hickey. I wasnt saying Hickey did anything bad.

All i was pointing out is, we are kissing Hickey's a$$ for doing the things expected of him..... which is really a sign of how Ireland had no idea how to run this team, and Hickey looks like a godsend by default.

He hasn't done anything incredible, so the praise is not merited. But i would definitely stay the course and see what he can do this offseason.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:55 pm 
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It's not butt kissing to say someone did a good job. If they do a good job, say they did a good job.

God knows if they screw things up, we're screaming about how bad they are.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:49 am 
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AQNOR wrote:
I think there is a point to be made about continuity. If the Phins bring in another head coach then the team goes in another direction. The Phins may not have the personnel for that direction so jettison the good players the Phins have because they don't fit the system to make room for the players that hopefully do.

Wash, rinse, repeat as some have noted on a 3 year cycle.



Good point, but this advice should have been followed when Sparano was fired! At that time, Ireland should've been fired too, and a new GM and HC hired. The defense was decent, and although they needed help in the secondary, the lack of offensive playmakers (QB, WR, TE, RB) and the need for a better o-line should have been addressed first. Even with Sparano/Henne, the offense moved the ball well between the 20s (with the help of Lousaka "Mr. Automatic First Down" Polite). Their main problem on offense was no TD-scoring playmakers and poor playcalling. A better HC/OC, QB, and a red zone receiving threat would have turned that team into a playoff team.

Instead, Ross hires Philbin, who wants to completely change everything on both offense and defense. Philbin did not have the personnel to run his offense, so instead of adapting his offense to fit the players, he forced his players to fit his offense. Some decent players were released because they didn't fit what he wanted to do. After 3 years of Philbin, they have an offense that starts out slow and disappears in the 4th quarter. And, the offense is one of the top teams in getting to the red zone, but one of the worst at scoring TDs when they get there. The defense has gotten progressively worse against the run after Philbin and Coyle took over and Ireland swapped LBs. Worst of all, both the offense and defense have a habit of falling to pieces whenever the game is on the line. Last season, they scored just 7 points and lost to both the Bills and Jets knocking themselves out of the playoffs. This year, they fell apart when leading over Green Bay, Detroit, and Denver, and when faced with big games with playoff implications (NE and Baltimore) the entire team collapsed in the second half. This is Joe Philbin's legacy... why would anyone in their right mind want to keep him as the HC?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:55 am 
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This is Joe Philbin's legacy... why would anyone in their right mind want to keep him as the HC?


No matter what happens playing the Vikings and the Jets, Ross needs to make the change this off season. If it isn't the long shot of getting Harbaugh, go after Rex Ryan, but regardless, get someone with a better future to offer than Philbin.


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