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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:59 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
jammer wrote:
I know people dislike when I say it but I think Crabtree is the FA target. I've heard it from a few sources and Omar Kelly admitted today he's heard Crabtree is a legit target. I'm thinking its Crabtree + Landry + Matthews + Hazel + 2 drafted guys for next year with Clay coming back.


This offense will go down the sh**ter if that's what they trot out there next year.


If those guys are either Davante Parker or Jaelen Strong and the other is Stefon Diggs then I disagree. Does anyone think Crabtree can't replace Hartline and Matthews can't replace Gibson?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:05 am 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
No, I don't think we sign Torrey Smith or Jeremy Maclin, however I am not a fan of Crabtree either. I don't see how Lazor could cosign Hickey bringing him on board, and especially at a $7m + contract. He doesn't fit the offense. He has been in the league long enough to know who he is. His play style isn't going to change and he isn't a very physical receiver.


No way Crabtree is getting that much money. He's falling into that Hakeem Nicks/prove it realm.

Maybe a desperate team gives him 3 years 18 million, and that is a big maybe. There are so many hyped up WR prospects, current FAs and soon to be released WRs. I'm thinking 2 years 10 million with the ability to cut him after the season without any cap problems.

I think he's better than Hartline and Gibson so if he's replacing them then fine. Could it be better to restructure Hartline for the purposes of offense familiarity and rapport with Tannehill? I can buy that argument. But again this thread is about rumors and right now I've read Crabtree's name mentioned with the Dolphins from 4 or 5 different guys, Omar Kelly being the most notable.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:19 am 
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jammer wrote:
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
No, I don't think we sign Torrey Smith or Jeremy Maclin, however I am not a fan of Crabtree either. I don't see how Lazor could cosign Hickey bringing him on board, and especially at a $7m + contract. He doesn't fit the offense. He has been in the league long enough to know who he is. His play style isn't going to change and he isn't a very physical receiver.


No way Crabtree is getting that much money. He's falling into that Hakeem Nicks/prove it realm.

Maybe a desperate team gives him 3 years 18 million, and that is a big maybe. There are so many hyped up WR prospects, current FAs and soon to be released WRs. I'm thinking 2 years 10 million with the ability to cut him after the season without any cap problems.

I think he's better than Hartline and Gibson so if he's replacing them then fine. Could it be better to restructure Hartline for the purposes of offense familiarity and rapport with Tannehill? I can buy that argument. But again this thread is about rumors and right now I've read Crabtree's name mentioned with the Dolphins from 4 or 5 different guys, Omar Kelly being the most notable.


The problem I have with Hartline is that he is a highly overpaid #3 WR being used as a #2 WR that can't create separation, score TD's or gain many YAC. I love Hartline but he just doesn't achieve much in this offense. The #2 WR position really needs to be upgraded.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:33 am 
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Patriots won the Superbowl playing in a 20 yard box.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:13 am 
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Sounds like Tannenbaum is also open to a multi-year deal for Lamar Miller and really likes Damien Williams. Perhaps Miami will not be players in the Frank Gore market?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:00 am 
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Barry Jackson just wrote only Landry and Matthews are definitely returning next year. I guess that answers the Matthews question.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:42 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Patriots won the Superbowl playing in a 20 yard box.


Great coaching goes a very long way in this league.
RT has had us in the same situations, defense just gave up the points in the end. Pete Carrol gave that one away, Brady and the NE offense just kept them in the game...


When Brady had Moss stretching the field, there was no 20 yard box. That team does not have a WR that can do what Wallace does, nor would they not utilize his ability to get open.
No way you can honestly tell me you believe Brady + Wallace would not result in a few highlight reel bombs...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:53 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
IamPZ wrote:
Chances are Wallace would have dropped them if they were on target anyways. The love for Wallace on this board is unreal. Dude is an average receiver at best and is way overpaid. I'm on Philbins side I'd take just about anything to get rid of this scrub.


Overpaid, yes. A scrub? Give me a break. Nice exaggerative rant though.


Typical Rock Sexton, focus on one word from a post... guess I shouldn't expect anything more though, nobody's allowed to have their own opinion around here... so let me reword it so you can understand.

I think Mike Wallace is a scrub and nowhere near worth the money. Better?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:08 pm 
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10acjed wrote:
Rich wrote:
Patriots won the Superbowl playing in a 20 yard box.


Great coaching goes a very long way in this league.
RT has had us in the same situations, defense just gave up the points in the end. Pete Carrol gave that one away, Brady and the NE offense just kept them in the game...


When Brady had Moss stretching the field, there was no 20 yard box. That team does not have a WR that can do what Wallace does, nor would they not utilize his ability to get open.
No way you can honestly tell me you believe Brady + Wallace would not result in a few highlight reel bombs...


Certainly you're not comparing a 6'4 catch radius monster like Randy Moss to Mike "please drop it right in the perfect spot between the 1 and the 1" Wallace.

Brady is a terrible downfield passer. He has always been one. Only when he had Moss to make incredible catches did he have success throwing downfield. But watch what happens when he has a wide open Julian Edelman more than 20 yards downfield. It happens all the time to Brady.

What the Patriots are good at is identifying mismatches, and they did that to Seattle when all of their corners started dropping like flies. So you're right about the coaching.

Bellicheck makes the simple adjustments that are obvious. Philbin does not.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:24 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Certainly you're not comparing a 6'4 catch radius monster like Randy Moss to Mike "please drop it right in the perfect spot between the 1 and the 1" Wallace.


Well you are comparing Tannehill to a QB that has been:
Quote:
4× Super Bowl Champion (XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX, XLIX)
3× Super Bowl MVP (XXXVI, XXXVIII, XLIX)
6× AFC Champion (2001, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2011, 2014)
2× NFL MVP (2007, 2010)
2× First Team All-Pro (2007, 2010)
Second Team All-Pro (2005)
10× Pro Bowl (2001, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014)
3× NFL passing touchdowns leader (2002, 2007, 2010)
2× NFL passing yards leader (2005, 2007)
Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year (2005)
Sporting News Sportsman of the Year (2004, 2007)
AP Male Athlete of the Year (2007)
2× NFL Offensive Player of the Year (2007, 2010)
3× AFC Offensive Player of the Year (2007, 2010, 2011)
AP NFL Comeback Player of the Year (2009)
PFWA NFL Comeback Player of the Year (2009)
New England Patriots all-time leader
(passing touchdowns, passing yards, pass completions, pass attempts, career wins)
NFL 2000s All-Decade Team


So forgive me if I am not soo picky on the technicalities of Wallace's catch radius....

Fact remains RT has missed on several scoring opportunities that Mike Wallace created due to his inaccuracy. He has a horrible deep pass just like Brady, and even worse a terrible coaching staff around him.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:45 pm 
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10acjed wrote:
Well you are comparing Tannehill to a QB that has been:


How is pointing out that the Patriots won in a 20 yard box comparing Brady to Tannehill?

You're the one comparing Brady and Tannehill. :hithead:

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Sounds like Tannenbaum is also open to a multi-year deal for Lamar Miller and really likes Damien Williams. Perhaps Miami will not be players in the Frank Gore market?

No old high-priced runningbacks please!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:27 pm 
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IamPZ wrote:
Typical Rock Sexton, focus on one word from a post... guess I shouldn't expect anything more though, nobody's allowed to have their own opinion around here... so let me reword it so you can understand.

I think Mike Wallace is a scrub and nowhere near worth the money. Better?


Not my fault you equate SCRUBS to guys who catch 10 TD's. That's not even an informed opinion, it's just an axe your grinding.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:28 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Patriots won the Superbowl playing in a 20 yard box.


There's so much more that goes into that though. We simply do not have the coaching and game-planning on either side of the ball to be able to win games that way.

It's almost pointless to even look to them as the shining example that you can survive an entire season and win on the big stage playing that way.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:33 pm 
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Wallace is not a scrub.

If you have an alpha receiver like a Brandon Marshall or a Dez Bryant who can catch a lot of passes and out jump everyone, having a guy like Wallace as the complimentary speed merchant pays huge dividends.

But if Wallace is your alpha receiver, you've got some work to do. He is overpaid and he really only excels at running 9 routes and getting behind the defense. I'm not saying he is bad at the other things, but his route running, hands and ability to attack the ball in the air could certainly improve. Not to mention his stinky attitude.

We need to keep Wallace and find that catch radius guy that will make teams pay for rolling over coverage to try to take Wallace's speed away.

Even with the Dolphins struggles with completing deep passes to Wallace, teams still respected him and either shadowed him with their best corner or kept a safety over the top.

If you line up that dynamic, well rounded receiver on the other side, it will open up the deep game more for Wallace and Wallace will continue to open up the short to intermediate passing game with his deep speed.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:35 pm 
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Rich wrote:
10acjed wrote:
Well you are comparing Tannehill to a QB that has been:


How is pointing out that the Patriots won in a 20 yard box comparing Brady to Tannehill?

You're the one comparing Brady and Tannehill. :hithead:



1 team has success in a 20 yard box. Hardly a reason to build an offense in that fashion.

NE got lucky, they play in a weak div with teams like us who think we can also win in a 20 yard box

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:38 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
IamPZ wrote:
Typical Rock Sexton, focus on one word from a post... guess I shouldn't expect anything more though, nobody's allowed to have their own opinion around here... so let me reword it so you can understand.

I think Mike Wallace is a scrub and nowhere near worth the money. Better?


Not my fault you equate SCRUBS to guys who catch 10 TD's. That's not even an informed opinion, it's just an axe your grinding.


I'm not a big Wallace fan but he's definitely not a scrub. He's just an incomplete wide receiver with maturity issues.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:38 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
Patriots won the Superbowl playing in a 20 yard box.


There's so much more that goes into that though. We simply do not have the coaching and game-planning on either side of the ball to be able to win games that way.

It's almost pointless to even look to them as the shining example that you can survive an entire season and win on the big stage playing that way.


I don't think there is so much more that goes into that. The fact is Brady was a different player once Gronk got going and got his legs back. Gronk is the alpha player on that offense and without him everything else seems to fall apart.

Just go look at their performance early in the season and how things changed once Gronk got going.

The Patriots do a lot of simple things on offense, a lot of combo and rub routes. Their offensive is not incredibly creative, they just use their players to their strength.

Defense is another story as they get pretty exotic with coverages.

The point of my post is that it can be done. And quite frankly, this isn't the first time the Patriots have done it and it isn't the first time an NFL team has done it.

It also helps that Brady's offensive line increased dramatically as the season went on, because they sucked early on.

Ours did the opposite.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:39 pm 
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10acjed wrote:
1 team has success in a 20 yard box. Hardly a reason to build an offense in that fashion.

NE got lucky, they play in a weak div with teams like us who think we can also win in a 20 yard box


I guess NE gets lucky all the time then because all of their Superbowls have been won with these types of offenses.

And predictably, you didn't answer my question.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:01 pm 
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Mike wallace is a good player. The offense improved last year. He has made plays with miami and scored touchdowns. Everyone in the league is overpaid.
You dont need a guy who runs a 4.3 or faster to win in the nfl But you do meed guys who can pick up yards after catch and contact. wallace can do that. Hartline cant. So we got rid of hartline, now lets keep wallace


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:07 pm 
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Manhattan wrote:
You dont need a guy who runs a 4.3 or faster to win in the nfl But you do meed guys who can pick up yards after catch and contact. wallace can do that. Hartline cant. So we got rid of hartline, now lets keep wallace


Wallace was ranked 47th in the NFL at the wide receiver position (so this doesn't include tight ends and running backs) in yards after the catch with 224 yards. He's not a YAC guy either.

The YAC guy on this team is Landry.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:20 pm 
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Rich wrote:
10acjed wrote:
1 team has success in a 20 yard box. Hardly a reason to build an offense in that fashion.

NE got lucky, they play in a weak div with teams like us who think we can also win in a 20 yard box


I guess NE gets lucky all the time then because all of their Superbowls have been won with these types of offenses.

And predictably, you didn't answer my question.


No, and I am not going to. You do not want to hear anything anyone has to say, its pretty much the common thread in these.

NE won a superbowl in a 20 yard box. That is all there is to it. That was the entirety of your point. No need to look at anything else that goes into it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:35 pm 
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10acjed wrote:
No, and I am not going to.


Of course you're not going to. You put words in my mouth to defend your comparison, why would you actually be an adult about it and backtrack? That's way too much to expect.

Quote:
You do not want to hear anything anyone has to say, its pretty much the common thread in these.


Says the guy who said I was comparing Tannehill to Brady when I did no such thing to cover for your ridiculous comparison of Randy Moss and Mike Wallace.

Watching you get bent out of shape because you're reading things that weren't written would be amusing if it wasn't sad.

You should read your own signature, take your own advice and stop taking offense.

Here, let me do you a favor and let you keep talking to yourself so your feelings don't keep getting hurt.

See ya.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:48 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I don't think there is so much more that goes into that. The fact is Brady was a different player once Gronk got going and got his legs back. Gronk is the alpha player on that offense and without him everything else seems to fall apart.

Just go look at their performance early in the season and how things changed once Gronk got going.

The Patriots do a lot of simple things on offense, a lot of combo and rub routes. Their offensive is not incredibly creative, they just use their players to their strength.

Defense is another story as they get pretty exotic with coverages.

The point of my post is that it can be done. And quite frankly, this isn't the first time the Patriots have done it and it isn't the first time an NFL team has done it.

It also helps that Brady's offensive line increased dramatically as the season went on, because they sucked early on.

Ours did the opposite.


We'll agree to disagree. It's beyond just Gronk and talent ..... again, the philosophies, the preparation, the coaching, and heart. Each side of the ball compliments the other and does't routinely leave the other hanging. They're two vastly different franchises in every sense of the word.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:52 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
We'll agree to disagree. It's beyond just Gronk and talent ..... again, the philosophies, the preparation, the coaching, and heart. Each side of the ball compliments the other and does't routinely leave the other hanging. They're two vastly different franchises in every sense of the word.


I'll stick to the evidence. Sometimes things are simpler than they seem.

Gronk at half speed, Patriots sucked on offense, especially Brady.

Gronk got it going, everything else fell into place on offense.

I do agree the coaching makes a difference, but so does the frequency with which the Patriots flirt with the limits of the rules.

At the end of the day, changing the quarterback in Miami is not going to make any difference in overcoming the coaching, or lack thereof, of Joe Philbin.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:17 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
We'll agree to disagree. It's beyond just Gronk and talent ..... again, the philosophies, the preparation, the coaching, and heart. Each side of the ball compliments the other and does't routinely leave the other hanging. They're two vastly different franchises in every sense of the word.


I'll stick to the evidence. Sometimes things are simpler than they seem.

Gronk at half speed, Patriots sucked on offense, especially Brady.

Gronk got it going, everything else fell into place on offense.

I do agree the coaching makes a difference, but so does the frequency with which the Patriots flirt with the limits of the rules.

At the end of the day, changing the quarterback in Miami is not going to make any difference in overcoming the coaching, or lack thereof, of Joe Philbin.


There is not an option out there at QB that is going to make a difference one way or the other. In a fantasy world there is no way you can tell me this is an 8-8 team with Rodgers behind center..

RT is good enough. But he needs a few randy moss types out there, or a gronk added to a decent group of possesion WR's.
His deep ball accuracy turned into missed opportunities to put points on the scoreboard, we missed a few wins by less than 1 TD in seasons we were literally a win or two away from making the playoffs.

He is not the only problem, but he is not perfect either. Not sure why ppl who are this active in following the NFL cant see that...

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:05 pm 
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We need to keep Wallace and find that catch radius guy that will make teams pay for rolling over coverage to try to take Wallace's speed away

Bingo!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:28 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I'll stick to the evidence. Sometimes things are simpler than they seem.

Gronk at half speed, Patriots sucked on offense, especially Brady.

Gronk got it going, everything else fell into place on offense.

I do agree the coaching makes a difference, but so does the frequency with which the Patriots flirt with the limits of the rules.

At the end of the day, changing the quarterback in Miami is not going to make any difference in overcoming the coaching, or lack thereof, of Joe Philbin.


Even when Gronk wasn't there, they were still a better team than us, not to mention Gronk only plays on offense. You're attempting to marginalize the effectiveness of the gameplanning - especially BB and the synergy between both sides of the ball. That's how you get away with a dink and dunk offense ...... but even that's a grossly exaggerated term when they've got Gronk dismantling the seam.

To my original point though, to expect a recreation of what they're doing with Tannehill back there is naive IMO. So I'm not using them as the "Ahhhh ha! See they're doing it without consisent deep threats!"

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:37 pm 
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Apparently Hickey wants Wallace, but Phildo doesn't:

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/m ... rylink=cpy

Seriously Joe Philbin lives in a fantasy world. That guy absolutely does not want to coach up players and I cannot wait until we move on from him.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:26 pm 
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That guy absolutely does not want to coach up players and I cannot wait until we move on from him.


For some reason, he has not gotten it through his egg head that you find ways to utilize the Mike Wallace's and Brandon Marshall's of the world and work around any head case prima donna attitude.

If Wallace does go, Phildo will have just "given up" on two guys that certainly the Dolphins are better off with in the lineup and especially when you invest in them. More money to just roll down the car window and let go IMO.

Also, for the life of me, it is really head scratching why Tannehill with all the football he has now played that he cannot just throw the ball out to the fastest wide out in the NFL.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:41 am 
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Outside the box idea with a name I've thrown out several times before - Vincent Jackson.

He's owed 9.7 million per year for the next 2 years. Tampa already has a big target in Mike Evans.

If Miami cuts Wallace they are back to square one and either pay for an inferior vet or overpay for a young guy.

If they swapped Wallace for Jackson they get something in return, buy Tannehill a year with an experienced guy (and invest a top pick in a rookie) and can cut him next year if needed. They'd essentially be trading one year deals but get a guy much more suited for their QB with whom they are obviously making a long term commitment.

Sorry for the redundancy on Jackson, but I never really looked at his contract and the Wallace situation makes it a bit more realistic now.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:52 am 
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From another site by a poster who was listening to the Joe Rose Show:

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I listened to Joe Rose this morning and he was telling stories about how Mark Clayton would skip meetings and Shula would still play him the next day, and how once Clayton told reporters to "ask the fat guy in the back" (in reference to Shula) and Shula never cut him because he was too valuable to the team, but Shula also made it clear to him that when his skills detoriorated he was a goner.


Shula should have cut Mark Clayton! LOL

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:11 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Shula should have cut Mark Clayton! LOL

He was doing it wrong.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:35 pm 
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Wasn't Philbin an Ireland hire, too?

Armando Salguero wrote:
Truth is in the spring of 2013 former general manager Jeff Ireland gave Brian Hartline a big new contract. He made Wallace the highest-paid receiver in the NFL. And he signed Gibson as a free agent.

Two of the three are already gone, as is Ireland.

Wallace might be the next out the door.


Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins ... rylink=cpy

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:34 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
Wasn't Philbin an Ireland hire, too?



Rumor was at the time that Ireland wanted Mike McCoy and Ross was favoring Joe Philbin. Kinda makes sense as to why Joe is still here and seems to be Ross's golden boy.

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