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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:16 pm 
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Sounds like Suh will hit free agency. I think we're better off going DT in the draft and bringing FAs to cover the other areas of need. I don't like having too much $$ wrapped up in a few players.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000475734/article/detroit-lions-do-not-franchise-ndamukong-suh


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:22 pm 
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shularino wrote:
I don't like having too much $$ wrapped up in a few players.


When one of those guys is asking $20m and doesn't play behind center, it's hard not to agree.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:22 pm 
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No thanks, he will get a payday and his production will slip off.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:45 pm 
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Love to have him, but at what cost?

Quote:
Rotoworld)ESPN's Mark Dominik considers the Dolphins one of three teams with a "real shot" at landing free agent Ndamukong Suh.

Analysis: Dominik compares Suh to Reggie White as a "once in a generational talent" who will actually find his way to the open market. We don't disagree with that assessment. Now on to Suh and the Dolphins, we're not sure how Miami would work Suh into their payroll. After today's releases of CB Cortland Finnegan and T/G Nate Garner and the designation of the transition tag to Charles Clay, the Dolphins are about $2 million under the cap. Suh is going to command the largest contract among defensive players in NFL history and will have plenty of suitors.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:55 pm 
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Ian Rapaport has also said the Dolphins are a wildcard team.

Saw some good logic on how it could work basically arguing that Wake and Grimes have 1-2 years left, Misi could probably be let go after this year and the offense is already purging big contracts. So all of that plus the ton of cap space Miami has in 2016 (and beyond) lines them up to sign him as the face of their defense long term.

Better hope Hickey and Tannenbaum do a heck of a job adding young talent if they made this signing.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:03 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Ian Rapaport has also said the Dolphins are a wildcard team.

Saw some good logic on how it could work basically arguing that Wake and Grimes have 1-2 years left, Misi could probably be let go after this year and the offense is already purging big contracts. So all of that plus the ton of cap space Miami has in 2016 (and beyond) lines them up to sign him as the face of their defense long term.

Better hope Hickey and Tannenbaum do a heck of a job adding young talent if they made this signing.



Very True. Mak, while some of Suh on the field antics rub me the wrong way, he is a BEAST. Don't twist this, he is an IMPACT player.

Do I want to pay a NON QB that type of money, not sure. Like jam said, you better draft well and have nice young talent around him.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:14 pm 
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We dont have the cash. Redskins will pay him.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:03 pm 
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Omar is reporting that he just landed in Ft. Lauderdale. Coincidence or not...

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:21 pm 
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Coincidence. He will go somewhere where they overpay all the time. Like washington, oakland or tampa bay. I dont think they could afford it, but Indianapolis would be a great spot. They dont have an attitude on that weak defense.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:26 pm 
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I wonder what $ he'll draw, will his rep hurt him, will he have to take a pay cut, down to 11 or 12 mil per, or will there be a competition for his services that drives him up over 15 mil per?

Special player, even if we did overpay for him, you couldn't help but be excited about it, but I seriously doubt the Fins are in the running.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:37 am 
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The Dolphins don't have the cap space this year to afford such a move. Let's face it, they were major players in free agency the past two years, but every team cannot be a major player every year.

Suh is going to command a contract that will cripple the Dolphins cap. As it is, they have to re-sign Pouncey and Tanny. That's the main reason why they are clearing cap space.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:12 am 
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The Dolphins can create the cap space to sign Suh by releasing Earl Mitchell and Randy Starks to start. That would take care of year 1. The cap goes wide open for the Dolphins in 2016 and beyond.

The problem is if they sign Suh, they would have to address virtually every other need through the draft, and given the team's history of mixed results in the draft, that's not a realistic expectation to have.

That being said, Suh would immediately improve both the run defense and the interior pass rush, which we haven't had in a while.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:20 am 
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Rich wrote:
The Dolphins can create the cap space to sign Suh by releasing Earl Mitchell and Randy Starks to start. That would take care of year 1. The cap goes wide open for the Dolphins in 2016 and beyond.

The problem is if they sign Suh, they would have to address virtually every other need through the draft, and given the team's history of mixed results in the draft, that's not a realistic expectation to have.

That being said, Suh would immediately improve both the run defense and the interior pass rush, which we haven't had in a while.


Spot on. They'd have to show a ton of faith in AJ Francis and Anthony Johnson for starters, then spend a high draft pick on a DT to fill out the rotation. Are they comfortable with Jordan Tripp at ILB? Dion Jordan or Chris McCain at OLB? Michael Thomas or Walt Aikens at FS? Jamar Taylor starting? That is what you're rolling with because the draft still needs to net WRs, OG and maybe another OT.

Only way it would happen is if they had the faith that Ireland's last draft and Hickey's first draft were home runs.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:33 am 
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For what its worth, Omar Kelly is really feeding this beast right now. Claims he heard Suh was the goal a while back but brushed it off as crazy. But then said prior to FA the last two years both Wallace and Albert were in Miami ahead of time (coincidentally Suh just landed). He's not saying it will happen but there are some strange similarities at work here.

Is it me or in the last couple of years did we seem to know all of this info by now? I swear last year it was almost common knowledge that Albert was the target and the previous year everyone knew Ireland was going hard for Wallace. While rumors have trickled out, and trust me I'm doing my best to share them, it seems this year is cloudy on the team's direction.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:04 pm 
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Is it worth trading Wake to free up cap.......then counting on Jordan to take over at DE?

We've been one of the big players in FA the past two years, claiming both Wallace and Albert in successive years. Albert certainly proved his worth, 20/20.......we wouldn't have made the move for Wallace. It's the kinda move the Phins have made in the past to fix a glaring weakness.

I'd rather work the draft for our next DT. Possibly even moving up to grab one of the top guys.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:19 pm 
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shularino wrote:
Is it worth trading Wake to free up cap.......then counting on Jordan to take over at DE?


No, we should explore renegotiating with Wake, though.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:58 am 
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I just cannot see us spending on the top free agent three years in a row. If the Dolphins do add Suh I would then be open to trading Mike Wallace IF we draft a WR with our first pick in the draft. The only reason is because players like Suh just do not make it to free agency.

One thing that I hate about Suh being linked to the Dolphins is that the Doomsday Dolphins will be all over the "no one wants to come to Miami" spin if we do not get him.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:24 am 
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Rich wrote:
shularino wrote:
Is it worth trading Wake to free up cap.......then counting on Jordan to take over at DE?


No, we should explore renegotiating with Wake, though.


Agree, the contract was a good deal for the Phins in the first 3 years, but not so good now. Wake's salary jumps from $5.9M in '14 to $9.0M this year. Per one of our previous discussions, the Phins could save $6.7M against the cap if he's traded or released. The question is does Wake and his agent believe his market value is around $9M/year (approximate base salary in '15 & '16). If so, they'll be reluctant to renegotiate.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:02 am 
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Big Dave wrote:
I just cannot see us spending on the top free agent three years in a row. If the Dolphins do add Suh I would then be open to trading Mike Wallace IF we draft a WR with our first pick in the draft. The only reason is because players like Suh just do not make it to free agency.

One thing that I hate about Suh being linked to the Dolphins is that the Doomsday Dolphins will be all over the "no one wants to come to Miami" spin if we do not get him.


I think the interest is legit and the possibility of landing him is pretty good.

Ireland threw bad money at the best available guys, not the BEST players. I think Tannenbaum learned from that and his prior failures. Tannenbaum also made the comment that Miami is a "draft and develop" team. Signing Suh gives them a chance to add other pieces via the draft and further develop the current younger guys.

Suh, while expensive, fixes more that just the D-line. It puts less pressure on the LBs and secondary to not compensate for a mediocre line. By signing Suh, and possibly Odrick, Miami can let Jordan, McCain, Tripp, Taylor, Thomas, Aiken and others get their chances to really develop this year.

It makes more sense than overpaying Crabtree, Gore, Peters and Jackson.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:11 pm 
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jammer wrote:
It makes more sense than overpaying Crabtree, Gore, Peters and Jackson.


It's difficult to make that argument though when Suh is going to get 3x the salary as those guys. I am very on the fence about this. Unless there is truly a master plan (in a situation like this there better be) to alleviate the cap and not let this put the team in a stranglehold, you go for it.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:57 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
jammer wrote:
It makes more sense than overpaying Crabtree, Gore, Peters and Jackson.


It's difficult to make that argument though when Suh is going to get 3x the salary as those guys. I am very on the fence about this. Unless there is truly a master plan (in a situation like this there better be) to alleviate the cap and not let this put the team in a stranglehold, you go for it.


I think David Hyde's argument is perfect regarding free agency: you overpay for the best player, not the best player available.

Does Suh eat up a lot of cap? Sure. But he changes the entire defense and allows you to underpay and develop your young talent. Its on the level of bringing Calvin Johnson to the offense.

Suh will require defenses to game plan around him, freeing up Wake and Vernon to return to 2013 form. Not that I want to go down this road but its like having a QB who makes everyone around them better.

The other guys I mentioned are on the market because their teams know they aren't worth big contracts. Suh is on the market because Detroit simply can't afford him. Big difference there.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:31 pm 
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jammer wrote:
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
jammer wrote:
It makes more sense than overpaying Crabtree, Gore, Peters and Jackson.


It's difficult to make that argument though when Suh is going to get 3x the salary as those guys. I am very on the fence about this. Unless there is truly a master plan (in a situation like this there better be) to alleviate the cap and not let this put the team in a stranglehold, you go for it.


I think David Hyde's argument is perfect regarding free agency: you overpay for the best player, not the best player available.

Does Suh eat up a lot of cap? Sure. But he changes the entire defense and allows you to underpay and develop your young talent. Its on the level of bringing Calvin Johnson to the offense.

Suh will require defenses to game plan around him, freeing up Wake and Vernon to return to 2013 form. Not that I want to go down this road but its like having a QB who makes everyone around them better.

The other guys I mentioned are on the market because their teams know they aren't worth big contracts. Suh is on the market because Detroit simply can't afford him. Big difference there.


It is an interesting situation to think about, I personally don't think it's the right time for us to sign Suh, but how could you not get excited if we did sign him, he's one of the leagues special players.

I don't always agree with Hyde, the NFL isn't his #1 thing, but I completely agree with his FA philosophy, overpay for the best, not just the best available, which was Ireland's MO.

I just don't think it's the right time for a multitude of reasons Jammer, because you make a signing like this to either, A) build around or B) make a SB run, and A) he's too old to build around (28) and B) not sure how close we are.

I do understand if things break right for us we could be pretty close, but I also understand that if they don't we may be several years away, it's a cloudy future and if things don't break right this contract could hurt us for many years.

A couple of reasons I don't think it's the right time;

QB, no matter what side you fall on concerning Tanne, there are problems concerning Suh in either case.

1) Tanne has great year, signs multiyear contract in the 17-18 mil per range, now you have 2 guys accounting for 30+mil per, obviously that hampers your ability to keep, never mind acquire talent when a 5th of the cap space is locked up on 2 guys.

2) Tanne has hit his ceiling and it's time to move on, now reloading, Suh will be getting old (he's 28) and we will have missed our shot and his contract will hurt our ability to keep and acquire talent.

Coaching staff, who will be the coaching staff in 2016? What changes will be made, will their be a retooling to a different O, move back to 3-4 with a different DC? Who knows, would anyone, including Mrs Philbin, be surprised if Joe was canned next year after another 8-8 season?

Now lets assume the above things go "perfect world", Tanne is great, Philbin finds himself as a HC and blossoms and hires THE perfect DC, sounds good right, a little too good perhaps, who cares, it's fun, lets go with it, lol.

Now, all these things are perfect, for this to work though, Hickey will also have to be perfect, or close to it, we will lose talent because we cant afford it, we won't be able to acquire much for same reason, so Hickey will have to knock it out of the park in the draft for 2-3 years in a row.

Drafting starters, not projects, starting with last years draft, those guys have to step up, Hickey will have to produce a lot of starting caliber players via the draft, CB's, LB's WR's and OL will be immediate needs as starters, it's a lot to ask, Hickey could be the best GM in the league for the next 3 years and still fall short.

Having said all that I would still be very excited if we signed him, he's a special talent.

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