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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:57 am 
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A lot of people are chirping about spending big money in free agency again. And I get it, we spent big money on Mike Wallace and he hasn't played up to his contract. We spent big money on Albert and he got injured. Yes, generally players are available in free agency because the teams they were on didn't value them as much. But Suh is a bit different as his team would have needed their entire cap space to franchise Suh, so they are taking a risk and letting him test the market.

But think about it this way, people say draft better and you don't need to spend big bucks on free agents. But this isn't necessarily a relevant argument. Yes, the Dolphins need to draft better, but if they drafted well they would still need to spend big money on free agents, their own.

If the Dolphins had drafted Suh, they would probably still need to break the bank to keep him, so again, not a relevant argument.

Another way to think about it is, we would need to spend money to retain Odrick, who is far less accomplished than Suh. We have big bucks tied in Starks and Mitchell, also both far less accomplished and well we saw a significant drop off from them at the end of the season.

I don't think you can compare signing Suh to signing Mike Wallace. You'd be comparing the best defensive tackle in the NFL to a receiver who is only one of the best at one particular skill and lacking at others. Yes, that skill can change games but his deficiencies can lose them.

So while I understand the concern in signing Suh and spending significant cap space on him, I am thinking about it differently now. If we had drafted Suh, we'd be doing that anyway.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:00 am 
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Reggie White once hit the market. Sometimes quality players do get there. Not often.

I'm just not sure about that much cash for a DT with holes everywhere else. Maybe the powers that be believe Suh will make them better.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:06 am 
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Dphins4me wrote:
Reggie White once hit the market. Sometimes quality players do get there. Not often.

I'm just not sure about that much cash for a DT with holes everywhere else. Maybe the powers that be believe Suh will make them better.


Whether we sign Suh or not, the Dolphins are going to need to draft well to fill holes. But if we sign Suh, he impacts from the middle of the defense.

The reason our run defense was so terrible last season towards the end was because Starks and Mitchell started getting pushed around. We can transform the $10 million we have tied up in cap on those two guys into Suh and significantly upgrade the position with minimal dead cap.

The only thing worse for a QB than bringing pressure from the edges is bringing it right into his face, and Suh does that.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:12 am 
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Rich wrote:

Whether we sign Suh or not, the Dolphins are going to need to draft well to fill holes. But if we sign Suh, he impacts from the middle of the defense.

The reason our run defense was so terrible last season towards the end was because Starks and Mitchell started getting pushed around. We can transform the $10 million we have tied up in cap on those two guys into Suh and significantly upgrade the position with minimal dead cap.

The only thing worse for a QB than bringing pressure from the edges is bringing it right into his face, and Suh does that.

Maybe the coaches like one of the young guys. Anthony Johnson might be impressing them & will allow them to make those moves.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:20 am 
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Dphins4me wrote:
Maybe the coaches like one of the young guys. Anthony Johnson might be impressing them & will allow them to make those moves.


Well, we can watch the last 6 games and say that anyone with a decent pair of eyes cannot be impressed with the play of Starks and to a lesser extent Mitchell.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:31 am 
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If Suh is signed I really hope Eric Kendricks is selected at 14. I know a lot of people argue against a MLB that early but the defense would get such an overall upgrade and allow for the young guys in the secondary to play.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:11 pm 
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What would the signing of Suh do for the edge production of Wake and Vernon? What would that edge rush production do for whoever plays corner?

I'd love for this rumor to be true, and for there to be a real chance at this happening, but I really just see this as a smart marketing ploy by a good agent. Get some interest shown from a franchise that has signed some really big FA deals in the last few years, then parlay that into a ginormous deal with a team with a ton of cap room.

My heart and head say do whatever is necessary to get him without killing the future of the franchise. My gut tells me we're the hot female friend you take to the bar to make the woman you're interested really jealous.

I hope we at least wore something classy.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:21 pm 
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jgod1 wrote:
What would the signing of Suh do for the edge production of Wake and Vernon? What would that edge rush production do for whoever plays corner?


If Suh takes up two defenders, something none of Miami's DTs can do, then the edge rushers won't face double teams. That is a tremendous advantage for disrupting pass plays and stopping opponents on 3rd down...

Which leads to the secondary improvements. If the line gets better overall pressure the secondary guys have less pressure to keep up with the WRs for an extended period of time.

Lets also not forget that the opponents o-line not having a free guy to pick up LBs provides extra opportunity to get pressure. If a RB or TE has to stay in to block the LB(s) it is one less guy for the secondary to account for.

Its why people keep saying that once the trenches are fixed everything else falls in line.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:54 pm 
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My biggest issue is if he is gonna play up to his contract.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:07 pm 
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Starks is on the cutting block, sure. Imo, the defensive line gassed out because the linebackers werent doing their jobs for the majority of the season. The defense line was asked to carry the unit. Odrick and mitchell are fine and we do have draftees that are now more experienced and healthy to help keep those guys fresh. Getting linebackers who can do their jbs will also drastically help that run defense.
With a suh signing, it says we failed again at drafting (johnson, johnson, fede, odrick are all orrelevant now) and it also straps miami from getting at corner and linebacker, the two areas that were so weak that the line was asked to pick up their slack. So now we just ask suh to pick up all the dts AND the linebackers slack?
It just doesnt make sense to me. Find HELP at dt, not a complete overhaul


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:23 pm 
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Sources say Philbin is getting a Suh tattoo on his head.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:34 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
My biggest issue is if he is gonna play up to his contract.

No way can he. Its simply to much money. I'm sure he can for a brief moment in time, but when a player is pulling down that type cash he needs to be making game changing plays, not just making everyone around him better.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:47 pm 
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I just dont like putting all our eggs in one basket. Never has going all in on a free agent worked out. Not even trades. Washington throws everything at RG3, new orleans and miami put everything on ricky williams. Even Denver hasnt won a super bowl with all that talent.
You cant just buy wins. You need the right players at the right position. Marshall, dansby, ellerbe...all talented but they were asked to produce in completely different systems and it failed.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:48 pm 
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Manhattan wrote:
I just dont like putting all our eggs in one basket. Never has going all in on a free agent worked out. Not even trades. Washington throws everything at RG3, new orleans and miami put everything on ricky williams. Even Denver hasnt won a super bowl with all that talent.
You cant just buy wins. You need the right players at the right position. Marshall, dansby, ellerbe...all talented but they were asked to produce in completely different systems and it failed.


What do you mean?? we have a genius defensive coordinator. I'm sure he has a great plan in mind to get the most out of all his players like he always has....


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:58 am 
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I'll probably get blasted for this but I would love it if Miami cut bait on both Starks and Mitchell, if necessary release Wallace, and use that money to get both Suh and Odrick as the starting DTs.

Grab a stopgap WR, draft a couple WRs and maybe a mid round DT to add to the rotation. Yeah yeah yeah, I get that Wallace allows other WRs to rack up numbers...

Plan B, if Ngata is cut go hard after him and Odrick.

Plan C, Wilfork and Odrick.

Ok, basically get Odrick back here.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:10 pm 
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Quote:
NFL Network's Ian Rapoport believes the Chargers will make a run at free agent Ndamukong Suh.
At this point it can be assumed every team will at least consider Suh. He is the best defensive player since Reggie White to hit the open market, and he is one of most disruptive defenders in the league. According to OverTheCap.com, San Diego is currently $26.283 million under the salary cap.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:19 pm 
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Go SD!!!!


I'll probably get blasted for this but I would love it if Miami cut bait on both Starks and Mitchell, if necessary release Wallace, and use that money to get both Suh and Odrick as the starting DTs.



I respect your opinion Jammr, but DTs never win SBs. Watt...0. Suh....0. Your other plans sound a lot better.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:22 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
Go SD!!!!


I'll probably get blasted for this but I would love it if Miami cut bait on both Starks and Mitchell, if necessary release Wallace, and use that money to get both Suh and Odrick as the starting DTs.



I respect your opinion Jammr, but DTs never win SBs. Watt...0. Suh....0. Your other plans sound a lot better.

Warren Sapp.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:38 pm 
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Manny fernandez, william perry, vince wilfork to name a few others


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:14 am 
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Warren Sapp.

Yeah, Brooks, Barber, and Lynch had nothing to do with it, right? The Bucs had 4 1st rd picks on that DL at one point. Hey, we just have different opinions on the issue.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:15 am 
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Manny fernandez, william perry, vince wilfork to name a few others

Don't agree, they were important pieces.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:15 am 
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Not sure why we are naming DT who won SBs, but the jest is there is not a DT that was the piece that won the SB.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:20 am 
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The point is those guys never broke the bank (yes I know some of them did not play in the salary cap era) and they did not carry a defense. They were part of a great one. Funny how some point out its a team game only to support their opinion.
Its all opinion and when we sign Suh the opinion that it was for to much should be respected.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:32 am 
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The point is those guys never broke the bank (yes I know some of them did not play in the salary cap era) and they did not carry a defense. They were part of a great one. Funny how some point out its a team game only to support their opinion.
Its all opinion and when we sign Suh the opinion that it was for to much should be respected.


Yeah, good point Mitch. The most important player that you must have is a QB and that's a FACT!!!! lol


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:26 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
Warren Sapp.

Yeah, Brooks, Barber, and Lynch had nothing to do with it, right? The Bucs had 4 1st rd picks on that DL at one point. Hey, we just have different opinions on the issue.

No one player wins a Superbowl. It has never happened before. The problem with your argument is you want to have your cake an eat it too.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:47 pm 
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Very true that 1 player has never ever won the Super Bowl.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:04 pm 
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No one player wins a Superbowl. It has never happened before. The problem with your argument is you want to have your cake an eat it too

Bingo! So why over pay for one player? Moot point now, he's a fin so I hope he dominates. I just hope he doesn't disappear agaisnt NE like he did last year.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:06 pm 
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Suh can be that one player.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:03 pm 
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Well now we can check off defensive tackle heading into the draft.
That almost guarantees our top pick will be a receiver, guard or a corner.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:11 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
Well now we can check off defensive tackle heading into the draft.
That almost guarantees our top pick will be a receiver, guard or a corner.


I would say WR, LB or CB, save OG for later round(s). My hope is WR and LB in the first two rounds.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:12 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
No one player wins a Superbowl. It has never happened before. The problem with your argument is you want to have your cake an eat it too

Bingo! So why over pay for one player? Moot point now, he's a fin so I hope he dominates. I just hope he doesn't disappear agaisnt NE like he did last year.

Again your argument makes no sense. Every player in his prime that is not a rookie is overpaid. That is how it works. You want things to function in a world that doesn't exist.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:22 pm 
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k-dash wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
Well now we can check off defensive tackle heading into the draft.
That almost guarantees our top pick will be a receiver, guard or a corner.


I would say WR, LB or CB, save OG for later round(s). My hope is WR and LB in the first two rounds.


I hear that. The only reason I included guard instead of LB is that there aren't any linebackers rated high enough to take at 14, but they could consider Collins or Scherff if they fall to 14.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:16 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
k-dash wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
Well now we can check off defensive tackle heading into the draft.
That almost guarantees our top pick will be a receiver, guard or a corner.


I would say WR, LB or CB, save OG for later round(s). My hope is WR and LB in the first two rounds.


I hear that. The only reason I included guard instead of LB is that there aren't any linebackers rated high enough to take at 14, but they could consider Collins or Scherff if they fall to 14.


Ahh, makes sense. Who do you like among 2nd rd LB options? I guess we can keep Misi in the middle as a "break in case of emergency" option, but I'd rather move him back outside and get a real MLB. Wonder what kind of shape Zack is in these days? Offerdahl?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:02 pm 
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Ahh, makes sense. Who do you like among 2nd rd LB options? I guess we can keep Misi in the middle as a "break in case of emergency" option, but I'd rather move him back outside and get a real MLB. Wonder what kind of shape Zack is in these days? Offerdahl?


In round 2 or round 3 there are some solid options like Shaq Thompson, Denzel Perryman, Paul Dawson, Kwon Alexander and Taiwan Jones.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:30 pm 
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Whatever Rich....


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:03 pm 
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Just an honest opinion here. Yes the market dictates you overpay for players. I just would hold that to a QB , and maybe a RB and WR. Not a DT.
Yes , Suh is a helluva player but he was a guy on the best Defense & just to quote some here ... what has Detroit won.
Maybe its because we have had crappy results with big name free agents. To be a bit skeptical does not indicate a lack of knowledge.
SUHprised?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:13 pm 
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I love the signing as it immediately solves one of our biggest issues on defense. Problem I have is how do we fill all of our other needs? Through the draft? We still have a lot of holes to fill on the team, we might be able to fill the WR need, but still have needs at LB, OG, TE, CB, and safety. Just doesn't seem possible unless we are willing sacrifice at a few of those positions and go with what we already have or bargain basement players.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:22 pm 
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FINesse wrote:
Just an honest opinion here. Yes the market dictates you overpay for players. I just would hold that to a QB , and maybe a RB and WR. Not a DT.
Yes , Suh is a helluva player but he was a guy on the best Defense & just to quote some here ... what has Detroit won.
Maybe its because we have had crappy results with big name free agents. To be a bit skeptical does not indicate a lack of knowledge.
SUHprised?


Your honest opinion is that a severely devalued position in today's NFL (RB) is worth overpaying for.

Ok.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:28 pm 
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Rich , you never cease to amaze me my friend. I kinda said maybe at the RB position.
Still think its a ton for a DT.
Once we start winning SUHper bowl after SUHper bowl it wont really matter I guess.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:36 pm 
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Rich wrote:
FINesse wrote:
Just an honest opinion here. Yes the market dictates you overpay for players. I just would hold that to a QB , and maybe a RB and WR. Not a DT.
Yes , Suh is a helluva player but he was a guy on the best Defense & just to quote some here ... what has Detroit won.
Maybe its because we have had crappy results with big name free agents. To be a bit skeptical does not indicate a lack of knowledge.
SUHprised?


Your honest opinion is that a severely devalued position in today's NFL (RB) is worth overpaying for.

Ok.


I can't blame FINesse for being skeptical of the results of our free agent signings, can you, Rich? I'm not arguing that Suh isn't a good signing. Just sympathetic given our front office's past success.


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