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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:39 am 
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New Miami Dolphins defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh was the consensus No. 1 player in free agency. Suh is viewed as a rare free agent who doesn't hit the market often, which is why Miami will make him the NFL's highest-paid defensive player at $114 million on Tuesday.

How dominant has Suh been in his first five seasons?

SuhHere are several telling statistics from ESPN Stats & Information:
•Since being drafted in 2010, Suh leads all NFL defensive tackles in quarterback sacks with 36. Geno Atkins (32), Marcell Dareus (28.5) and Gerald McCoy (27) round out the top four.
•Suh leads all defensive tackles in snaps (4,107) and disruptive dropbacks (50) since 2010. He is also third in tackles (238) at his position.
•With Suh, the Detroit Lions led the NFL last season in run defense (63.9 yards per game) and yards allowed before contact (1.51). The Dolphins were 24th in run defense (121.1 yards per game) and 28th in yards allowed before contact (2.96).

My take is Suh is worth every penny for the Dolphins. Not only will he fix Miami's leaky run defense, but Suh's presence and overall dominance will make the other 10 defenders around him better.

The Dolphins arguably have the NFL's best defensive line on paper with the addition of Suh. However, Suh, fellow Pro Bowler Cameron Wake, defensive end Olivier Vernon and defensive tackle Earl Mitchell must quickly establish their chemistry and prove it on the field this season.


http://espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolphins/ ... he-numbers

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:01 pm 
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Warming up to the signing but this scares me...


The Dolphins arguably have the NFL's best defensive line on paper


It's going to be exciting once the FA period and draft is over. We are due for a winning season. Now, let's hope the coaching staff get's it together.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:15 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
Warming up to the signing but this scares me...


The Dolphins arguably have the NFL's best defensive line on paper


It's going to be exciting once the FA period and draft is over. We are due for a winning season. Now, let's hope the coaching staff get's it together.


Having the best defensive line on paper scares you?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:54 pm 
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Yeah, on paper, that means when or if we underform everyone will jump all over it. On paper is great, I want to see it on the field. I should have explained it better or used different context, it's hard to explain sometimes messageboards as you and I both know...lol


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:57 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
Yeah, on paper, that means when or if we underform everyone will jump all over it. On paper is great, I want to see it on the field. I should have explained it better or used different context, it's hard to explain sometimes messageboards as you and I both know...lol


Your excellent point makes only a little bit of sense to my feeble little mind. :youwin:

Forget about what's on paper. Who cares? We know that means little.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:42 pm 
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Miami had arguably the best DL on paper last season too....

I smell the weakest link being Mitchell, even though he played good last season... I also see depth becoming an issue. I can't imagine a situation where Starks & Mitchell both stay.

So this will be a grand total of losing: Soliai (2014), Odrick (2015), Starks or Mitchell (probably Starks) (2015)... to replace with Suh.

Im fine with Suh... Im just not comfortable with the #3 and #4. Miami was good while a DL rotation was in order... now its gonna be AJ Francis


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:11 pm 
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Your excellent point makes only a little bit of sense to my feeble little mind. :youwin:

Forget about what's on paper. Who cares? We know that means little.



On paper....the kiss of death cliche. I wasn't trying to back hand you in my reply BTW. It's hard to understand the context on a MB. You're right, on paper means little.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:51 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
I wasn't trying to back hand you in my reply BTW.


I know.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:31 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:41 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:51 pm 
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Better than the 2000 Ravens & 85 Bears.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:22 pm 
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Do you have any plays when the Pats waxed the Lions 34 to 7 or something like that? lol


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:39 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
Do you have any plays when the Pats waxed the Lions 34 to 7 or something like that? lol


lol, you would think paying a player 19 mil would mean you never give up 34 points, right?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:35 am 
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REPORTER;
"Mr. Ross, many of your critics say that spending upwards of 100 million on a DT is going to hurt your team in the future, what do you have to say to them?"

STEVEN ROSS;
"Suh me...'

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:34 am 
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Finster wrote:
REPORTER;
"Mr. Ross, many of your critics say that spending upwards of 100 million on a DT is going to hurt your team in the future, what do you have to say to them?"

STEVEN ROSS;
"Suh me...'


LOL ... its also pretty obvious we were the best SUHtor for him.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:45 am 
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Makchell wrote:
Do you have any plays when the Pats waxed the Lions 34 to 7 or something like that? lol


Finster wrote:
lol, you would think paying a player 19 mil would mean you never give up 34 points, right?


Makchell wrote:
Huh huh, yeah fire fire!

So like... yeah then why did the Patriots throw, huh huh, the ball like... 53 times and use like short screen passes all game long... huh huh... and like only run, like the ball in the 4th quarter when the game was like no longer in doubt... huh huh... why do you... huh huh... think that is!


Finster wrote:
uh..... huh huh... yeah.... huh huh.... I dunno... I can't figure it out... huh huh


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:57 am 
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FINesse wrote:
Finster wrote:
REPORTER;
"Mr. Ross, many of your critics say that spending upwards of 100 million on a DT is going to hurt your team in the future, what do you have to say to them?"

STEVEN ROSS;
"Suh me...'


LOL ... its also pretty obvious we were the best SUHtor for him.


LOL, Indeed Mitch, that is certainly safe to asSUHme.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:00 pm 
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Yeeeeees!! It's Todd....


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:04 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Makchell wrote:
Do you have any plays when the Pats waxed the Lions 34 to 7 or something like that? lol


Finster wrote:
lol, you would think paying a player 19 mil would mean you never give up 34 points, right?


Makchell wrote:
Huh huh, yeah fire fire!

So like... yeah then why did the Patriots throw, huh huh, the ball like... 53 times and use like short screen passes all game long... huh huh... and like only run, like the ball in the 4th quarter when the game was like no longer in doubt... huh huh... why do you... huh huh... think that is!


Finster wrote:
uh..... huh huh... yeah.... huh huh.... I dunno... I can't figure it out... huh huh


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Oh, OK, so what your saying Rich, if I've gotten this right, is that you can game plan around our 19 million dollar man.

Hunh, that's funny, I thought that's what Mak and I were alluding to...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:11 pm 
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Finster wrote:
Oh, OK, so what your saying Rich, if I've gotten this right, is that you can game plan around our 19 million dollar man.

Hunh, that's funny, I thought that's what Mak and I were alluding to...


Yep, teams gameplan around Richard Sherman and Darrelle Revis and they did it against Deion Sanders too. They do it against Cam Wake, Mario Edwards and they did it against Reggie White and Warren Sapp.

You know how they did it? They avoided a gameplan that allows these players to shine.

So we're signing a player that Bill Bellicheck, the ultimate genius and supreme cheater of the NFL, was so concerned about that he decided to not even bother running the ball or putting his QB in a position where he would need to sit in the pocket and throw downfield to prevent this player from making a play.

So I mean, if you're mentioning this because you think it is a bad thing that we're signing a player that other teams will need to OH MY GOD actually think about when they put a gameplan together, then I hope you realize how appropriate the Beavis and Butthead comparison is.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:24 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
Oh, OK, so what your saying Rich, if I've gotten this right, is that you can game plan around our 19 million dollar man.

Hunh, that's funny, I thought that's what Mak and I were alluding to...


Yep, teams gameplan around Richard Sherman and Darrelle Revis and they did it against Deion Sanders too. They do it against Cam Wake, Mario Edwards and they did it against Reggie White and Warren Sapp.

You know how they did it? They avoided a gameplan that allows these players to shine.

So we're signing a player that Bill Bellicheck, the ultimate genius and supreme cheater of the NFL, was so concerned about that he decided to not even bother running the ball or putting his QB in a position where he would need to sit in the pocket and throw downfield to prevent this player from making a play.

So I mean, if you're mentioning this because you think it is a bad thing that we're signing a player that other teams will need to OH MY GOD actually think about when they put a gameplan together, then I hope you realize how appropriate the Beavis and Butthead comparison is.


So at 19 mil per, he's just like anybody else?

Id rather have Odrick then at half price if it's all the same RIch.

You crack me up on the boards Rich, "Suh will help the pass rush, Suh will help the run D, Suh will make the entire D better, his interior pass rush is the best way to get to Brady, interior pass rush is Brady's weakness", but when the Pats drubbing of Suh's Lions comes up "you can't blame Suh, he was gameplanned for"

LOL, just LOL.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:45 pm 
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Finster wrote:
So at 19 mil per, he's just like anybody else?

Id rather have Odrick then at half price if it's all the same RIch.

You crack me up on the boards Rich, "Suh will help the pass rush, Suh will help the run D, Suh will make the entire D better, his interior pass rush is the best way to get to Brady, interior pass rush is Brady's weakness", but when the Pats drubbing of Suh's Lions comes up "you can't blame Suh, he was gameplanned for"

LOL, just LOL.


So I compared him to all time greats that teams gameplanned for to completely avoid and you correlate that to "he's just like anybody else"?

I'm pretty sure that when Deion Sanders' teams were losing or even getting blown out, and it did happen, it wasn't because the other team's gameplan was to throw right at a corner who can shut down half the field. I'm also pretty sure that when the Patriots went to a short, quick passing game to start against the Lions, it was because they knew they couldn't block Suh, neither in the run game or the pass game.

Since the Patriots went to the quick passing game, there wasn't a way for Suh to help the pass rush, Suh to help the run defense or Suh to get to Brady.

And by the way, those quotes you attribute specifically to me are a collective of what the people that support this signing are saying. They aren't what I am specifically saying. But I do have a quote to attribute to you:

Finster wrote:
It is an interesting situation to think about, I personally don't think it's the right time for us to sign Suh, but how could you not get excited if we did sign him, he's one of the leagues special players.


Finster wrote:
Having said all that I would still be very excited if we signed him, he's a special talent.



Interesting, you referred to him as special twice, now you're diminishing him. You said you'd be excited but all you are doing is complaining. I can only attribute that to you digging in your heels with the position you've carved out for yourself (or you have multiple personality disorder). That doesn't seem very open-minded or objective (or sane), Beavis.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:01 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
So at 19 mil per, he's just like anybody else?

Id rather have Odrick then at half price if it's all the same RIch.

You crack me up on the boards Rich, "Suh will help the pass rush, Suh will help the run D, Suh will make the entire D better, his interior pass rush is the best way to get to Brady, interior pass rush is Brady's weakness", but when the Pats drubbing of Suh's Lions comes up "you can't blame Suh, he was gameplanned for"

LOL, just LOL.


So I compared him to all time greats that teams gameplanned for to completely avoid and you correlate that to "he's just like anybody else"?

I'm pretty sure that when Deion Sanders' teams were losing or even getting blown out, and it did happen, it wasn't because the other team's gameplan was to throw right at a corner who can shut down half the field. I'm also pretty sure that when the Patriots went to a short, quick passing game to start against the Lions, it was because they knew they couldn't block Suh, neither in the run game or the pass game.

Since the Patriots went to the quick passing game, there wasn't a way for Suh to help the pass rush, Suh to help the run defense or Suh to get to Brady.

And by the way, those quotes you attribute specifically to me are a collective of what the people that support this signing are saying. They aren't what I am specifically saying. But I do have a quote to attribute to you:

Finster wrote:
It is an interesting situation to think about, I personally don't think it's the right time for us to sign Suh, but how could you not get excited if we did sign him, he's one of the leagues special players.


Finster wrote:
Having said all that I would still be very excited if we signed him, he's a special talent.



Interesting, you referred to him as special twice, now you're diminishing him. You said you'd be excited but all you are doing is complaining. I can only attribute that to you digging in your heels with the position you've carved out for yourself (or you have multiple personality disorder). That doesn't seem very open-minded or objective (or sane), Beavis.


LOL, you continue to crack me up Richie, I haven't diminished him, I am sticking by whet I said to begin with, he's special, but not worth the deal, why is that so hard for you to understand Rich?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:04 pm 
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Finster wrote:
LOL, you continue to crack me up Richie, I haven't diminished him, I am sticking by whet I said to begin with, he's special, but not worth the deal, why is that so hard for you to understand Rich?


Yeah, when it was a rumor/pipedream you said that. Once it started becoming serious, you dropped the "he's special" part.

Sorry, but only you believe that this is all you've said all along. :haha

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:10 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
LOL, you continue to crack me up Richie, I haven't diminished him, I am sticking by whet I said to begin with, he's special, but not worth the deal, why is that so hard for you to understand Rich?


Yeah, when it was a rumor/pipedream you said that. Once it started becoming serious, you dropped the "he's special" part.

Sorry, but only you believe that this is all you've said all along. :haha


LOL, I guess we can just chalk this up as "WAtR"

World According to Rich.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:12 pm 
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Finster wrote:
LOL, I guess we can just chalk this up as "WAtR"

World According to Rich.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:25 pm 
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At least the Phins are doing something different by adding Suh.

Not every team has the personnel to effectively game plan to limit Suh.

Hopefully those making the decisions for the Phins will take note and get people and a plan to counter the possibility. I can hope can't I.

Limiting the other teams options sounds good on paper. : )


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:29 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
At least the Phins are doing something different by adding Suh.

Not every team has the personnel to effectively game plan to limit Suh.

Hopefully those making the decisions for the Phins will take note and get people and a plan to counter the possibility. I can hope can't I.

Limiting the other teams options sounds good on paper. : )


I prefer keeping players other teams don't have to worry about instead, like say... Jared Odrick.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:18 pm 
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Rich wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
At least the Phins are doing something different by adding Suh.

Not every team has the personnel to effectively game plan to limit Suh.

Hopefully those making the decisions for the Phins will take note and get people and a plan to counter the possibility. I can hope can't I.

Limiting the other teams options sounds good on paper. : )


I prefer keeping players other teams don't have to worry about instead, like say... Jared Odrick.


LOL at Rich,
Quote:
I responded. I feel good about myself again. Quality or wittiness of response is irrelevant.


Hypocrite much, not too much, much too much...

Why I guess we could say you are a new species, a new type of critter, a Hypocritter.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:27 pm 
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Finster, when your response is 100% personal, it is damning evidence that you're out of ammo (even if all you did was shoot blanks).

It was fun getting you riled up. Easy, but fun.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:37 pm 
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So I don't understand how Suh is not worth the money. The salary cap will go up and player salaries will go up. I'm pretty sure he's getting paid what everyone said he would be paid based on what McCoy got. Also is Suh getting paid 20 million a year or is his deal backloaded? When Wake and Vernon approach double digit sack totals and Suh continues to do what he has always done will his detractors still be standing around shaking their head saying he's not worth the money. Whose money is it anyway?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:28 pm 
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ggippo wrote:
So I don't understand how Suh is not worth the money. The salary cap will go up and player salaries will go up. I'm pretty sure he's getting paid what everyone said he would be paid based on what McCoy got. Also is Suh getting paid 20 million a year or is his deal backloaded? When Wake and Vernon approach double digit sack totals and Suh continues to do what he has always done will his detractors still be standing around shaking their head saying he's not worth the money. Whose money is it anyway?


As I stated earlier this week, I understand where people are coming from in regards to concerns with the cap, not to mention some of our previous big signings in free agency by the Dolphins.

However, I think Suh needs to be looked at differently as it isn't every free agency period that we see a player like him become available. In fact, it has been a while since a top 3 player at his position and in his prime becomes available. Most of them get franchised before the free agency period ever begins.

I also think, looking at future cap years and the amount of money we can shed quickly by dumping some previous bad signings, that his cap number is manageable. Also, depending on the structure of the signing bonus and base salaries, it sounds like this is really a 3 year, $60 million contract, not a 6 year, $114 million contract. At worst, we're on the hook for this contract at most for 5 years since signing bonuses can only amortize up to 5 years.

Lastly, the primary reason we missed the playoffs was the decline of our defense, specifically our run defense, during the last 6 weeks of the season. We already had a lot of money tied up at the tackle position and to retain Odrick we would have had to invest more. But we would have been investing it in a decent player and a significantly diminished player rather than a game changing top 3 player at his position, maybe the best player at his position, maybe top 3 on his side of the ball period. A player that teams have to make the primary focus of their gameplan as the Patriots did by completely abandoning the run and relying on dump offs, screens and short quick passes for 3 quarters.

And as you correctly pointed out, the cap will go up again. Right now, the Dolphins are projected $40 million under the cap in 2016 if the cap stays flat. As I said elsewhere, that number can easily go up to $60 million by getting rid of a few more contracts. It's not going to stay flat. In fact, it is projected to spike up to as high as $150 million by 2016. The cap was supposed to stay flat from 2014 to 2015 and it still went up.

This is not just an opportunity to spend big money on a player like a Mike Wallace or Karlos Dansby. This is an opportunity to completely transform your defense. This is as sure a thing as it gets. Is there risk? Absolutely. Suh may suffer a serious injury and never fully recover, he may get struck by lightning, etc etc. But the options are to sit there and play it safe or move mountains. This team has missed the playoffs now almost every single year for over a decade. It's time to change the game. And Suh does that.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:01 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Finster, when your response is 100% personal, it is damning evidence that you're out of ammo (even if all you did was shoot blanks).

It was fun getting you riled up. Easy, but fun.


LOL, talk about easy, you just set em up for me Rich.

So, going by your "personal" theory, your initial Beavis and Butthead comment was personal, so I guess you started this whole thing without ammo... shooting blanks, and it's actually been fun for me, and I'm not just saying it, lol.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:02 pm 
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Well its quality over quantity I think most people should agree. I think most people would also agree the money is better spent on Suh than Wallace Ellerbe and Wheeler together


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:15 pm 
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I believe Mak and Finster's opinions on this signing will turn around once the season progresses. As for the moment, agree to disagree.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:21 pm 
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Finster wrote:
So, going by your "personal" theory, your initial Beavis and Butthead comment was personal, so I guess you started this whole thing without ammo... shooting blanks, and it's actually been fun for me, and I'm not just saying it, lol.


Nope it was in good fun. And given your behavior after that post, it is clear you didn't take it that way.

Don't worry. Will keep it all business with you going forward.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:20 pm 
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So when is the signing supposed to be official? I haven't heard a thing about Suh today.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:23 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
So, going by your "personal" theory, your initial Beavis and Butthead comment was personal, so I guess you started this whole thing without ammo... shooting blanks, and it's actually been fun for me, and I'm not just saying it, lol.


Nope it was in good fun. And given your behavior after that post, it is clear you didn't take it that way.

Don't worry. Will keep it all business with you going forward.


Excellent idea.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:25 pm 
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Phin wrote:
So when is the signing supposed to be official? I haven't heard a thing about Suh today.


I know, according to all the experts this deal was done 3 days ago.

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