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 Post subject: Stills will be in demand
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:11 pm 
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Eliot Shorr-Parks of NJ Advance Media reports the Eagles will pursue Kenny Stills if the Dolphins allow the receiver to hit free agency.
Re-signing Stills is reportedly one of the Dolphins' "priorities" this offseason, but with a big deal for Jarvis Landry on the way, Miami might not have the money to pay both guys. Only 24, Stills makes sense for an Eagles offense in desperate need of receiver help, but he is sure to pique the interest of plenty other teams if he hits the open market. The Eagles will create more cap room before March, but they still might not have the ammunition to get into a bidding war.
Related: Eagles
Source: NJ Advance Media Feb 2 - 11:27 AM


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:22 pm 
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He will likely get paid more than he is worth ELSEWHERE


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:53 pm 
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I think he comes back. The wr class is surprisingly pretty good and I don't see anybody breaking the bank with a good wr draft also forming so Stills IMO gets a nice offer here and at 24 with 1 more big contract in the future he'll stay and be the other rfect fit here


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:13 am 
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You can't blame him for wanting to get paid. He also has to think about job happiness, too. He is flourishing in Adam Gase's offense. He may take a little less to stay with Miami, but it won't be a huge "hometown" discount.

Has anyone figured out why the Saints trading him to us in the first place? He looked to be a player on the upswing there.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:21 pm 
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I think we should have kept Rishard Matthews.
He was a late round, home-grown rising star.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
You can't blame him for wanting to get paid. He also has to think about job happiness, too. He is flourishing in Adam Gase's offense. He may take a little less to stay with Miami, but it won't be a huge "hometown" discount.

Has anyone figured out why the Saints trading him to us in the first place? He looked to be a player on the upswing there.



I thought it was something along the lines of they already had good receivers and would not be able to keep him when he went on the market so why not get something for him while they could.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:52 pm 
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I really hope Stills is smart enough to recognize that Gase is building something special in Miami and doesnt sellout his career to the Niners or Rams.

Quote:
The Miami Herald reports impending free agent Kenny Stills "likes the West Coast" and an offer from an AFC West or NFC West team "could be attractive."
Stills figures to have a robust market. He's coming off arguably his best NFL season and doesn't turn 25 until April. He's really young for a player entering free agency. Stills has already said he'd be interested in a return to the Dolphins, while the Eagles have also been linked to him. A pair of California teams in the Rams and 49ers are both in dire need or playmakers out wide.
Source: Miami Herald Feb 6 - 10:35 AM


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:18 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
Big Dave wrote:
You can't blame him for wanting to get paid. He also has to think about job happiness, too. He is flourishing in Adam Gase's offense. He may take a little less to stay with Miami, but it won't be a huge "hometown" discount.

Has anyone figured out why the Saints trading him to us in the first place? He looked to be a player on the upswing there.



I thought it was something along the lines of they already had good receivers and would not be able to keep him when he went on the market so why not get something for him while they could.


Jeff Ireland was assisting the GM in New Orleans. Enough said.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:54 pm 
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jammer wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
Big Dave wrote:
You can't blame him for wanting to get paid. He also has to think about job happiness, too. He is flourishing in Adam Gase's offense. He may take a little less to stay with Miami, but it won't be a huge "hometown" discount.

Has anyone figured out why the Saints trading him to us in the first place? He looked to be a player on the upswing there.



I thought it was something along the lines of they already had good receivers and would not be able to keep him when he went on the market so why not get something for him while they could.


Jeff Ireland was assisting the GM in New Orleans. Enough said.


He was only Hartline until this year so no big deal back then.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:02 pm 
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He was like the #4 option in New Orleans but still did well with Brees.

I think there were some maturity issues too.

Ireland got hired and thought Ellerbe plus a 3rd Round pick could beef up their defense.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Somehow I doubt if Ireland had the last call on that deal but am not familiar with the inner working of the aints. Since he was on the staff he probably had input but I thought he was hired to head up college scouting or something like that.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Guys on Twitter have been posting the San Francisco WR depth chart that Kyle Shanahan is inheriting. I could totally see Stills being a primary target there and compensated beyond what Miami will do.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:11 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Guys on Twitter have been posting the San Francisco WR depth chart that Kyle Shanahan is inheriting. I could totally see Stills being a primary target there and compensated beyond what Miami will do.

I think Pryor and Garcon would be ahead of him especially with Torey Smith being there


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Possibly. Omar Kelly just tweeted he's hearing a 5 Year $30 million with $12.5 guaranteed is what should be expected for Stills. I think that might be on the low end, at least with guarantees.

And if that is what it takes then sign the man tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:16 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Possibly. Omar Kelly just tweeted he's hearing a 5 Year $30 million with $12.5 guaranteed is what should be expected for Stills. I think that might be on the low end, at least with guarantees.

And if that is what it takes then sign the man tomorrow.

I've always thought that would be the number because hr does not have a long run of stud play or evenas the #1 or #2 wr. Also this wr class is going to be stacked so he has to be smart now Iwwould offer him that not even today but last week


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:34 am 
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Because Stills is only 24 I think teams will pay him more since his age leads one to assume he'll play up to value in each year of the contract. Therefore if I'm Miami then the offer may only be 4 years but a higher annual salary with guarantees. You can pose it to him that he'll net more guaranteed money due to no Florida state income tax (negating the California attraction).

You have Devante Parker under a reasonable contract amount for the next two years plus a team option. By that point you could decide whether to extend Stills or cut him and devote the money to Parker instead.

Miami really should get the deal done and I'd have no problem with 4 years $32 million and a little over half of that in up front guarantees. They have so much cap space over the next two years and he's a big part of the offense. Tough to replace unless they think Parker becomes the deep threat on 3 WR sets.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:27 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
Quote:
Re-signing Stills is reportedly one of the Dolphins' "priorities" this offseason, but with a big deal for Jarvis Landry on the way, Miami might not have the money to pay both guys.



I don't understand why a "big deal" for Landry is on the way. Landry is pretty good at getting yards after the catch and making the occasional big play, but when all is said and done he's nothing more than a good slot receiver who converts 1st downs. On the other hand, Stills stretches the field keeping the defense honest which in turn helps the running game (and those short passes to a slot receiver!). Stills scored 9 TDs with most of them being 25+ yards. With a good o-line (if Miami ever decides to put one together) and smart playcalling, any half-decent slot receiver can do most of what Landry does. Tannehill/Stills is Miami's first QB/WR combo to be successful with the deep ball since RT was drafted. Parker and Carroo can't do what Stills does, but it's possible that one of them could replace Landry in the slot. And, if Miami goes after a seam-threat TE, he'll take passes away from Landry. IMO, Landry is expendable, but Stills (or another deep threat WR who can do what he does) is not.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:53 pm 
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gofins60 wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
Quote:
Re-signing Stills is reportedly one of the Dolphins' "priorities" this offseason, but with a big deal for Jarvis Landry on the way, Miami might not have the money to pay both guys.



I don't understand why a "big deal" for Landry is on the way. Landry is pretty good at getting yards after the catch and making the occasional big play, but when all is said and done he's nothing more than a good slot receiver who converts 1st downs. On the other hand, Stills stretches the field keeping the defense honest which in turn helps the running game (and those short passes to a slot receiver!). Stills scored 9 TDs with most of them being 25+ yards. With a good o-line (if Miami ever decides to put one together) and smart playcalling, any half-decent slot receiver can do most of what Landry does. Tannehill/Stills is Miami's first QB/WR combo to be successful with the deep ball since RT was drafted. Parker and Carroo can't do what Stills does, but it's possible that one of them could replace Landry in the slot. And, if Miami goes after a seam-threat TE, he'll take passes away from Landry. IMO, Landry is expendable, but Stills (or another deep threat WR who can do what he does) is not.


In a different thread, I asked how it was that New England's receivers were seemingly always wide open. Is it the system? What about those relatively slow guys makes them so hard to cover? Rich answered that precise route running, with clean change of direction at full speed is what that offense relies upon, and it's the secret to their success. That is precisely why Landry is not just another competent slot guy. He's able to get open consistently, which is why he puts up the reception numbers that he does. That combined with his ability to make guys miss is what makes him special, and IMO why we need to re-sign him. He's not just a guy. He's blessed with explosive change of direction, great open field vision and running, above average route running and ridiculous hands. So yeah, we should keep him around.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:42 am 
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Not keeping Landry and calling him expendable is quite possibly the craziest thing I've read on here in a long time.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:08 am 
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Phin wrote:
Not keeping Landry and calling him expendable is quite possibly the craziest thing I've read on here in a long time.



My point is that if I had to overpay a player it would be Stills, not Landry. Maybe I should have said "easier to replace" rather than "expendable". Sorry, but I'm not a fan of Landry.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:59 am 
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gofins60 wrote:
Phin wrote:
Not keeping Landry and calling him expendable is quite possibly the craziest thing I've read on here in a long time.



My point is that if I had to overpay a player it would be Stills, not Landry. Maybe I should have said "easier to replace" rather than "expendable". Sorry, but I'm not a fan of Landry.


The guy that has the most catches ever in his first three seasons is easier to replace than a guy who just showed up this year? :headscratch

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:47 pm 
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Landry is probably the best run after catch receiver in the NFL. He's really the heart and soul of the team.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:28 pm 
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Landry is the most important Dolphin now


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:24 pm 
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I found it interesting to see Omar and Chris Perkins talk about the Dolphins' priorities in resigning their free agents. I don't agree with all of it (especially on Kenny Stills) but it was interesting.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/video/originals/south-florida-sports-with-perk/92533209-132.html


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:54 am 
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k-dash wrote:
I found it interesting to see Omar and Chris Perkins talk about the Dolphins' priorities in resigning their free agents. I don't agree with all of it (especially on Kenny Stills) but it was interesting.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/video/originals/south-florida-sports-with-perk/92533209-132.html


I was surprised at how little they valued their own guys, especially Dion Sims.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:15 am 
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Rich wrote:
The guy that has the most catches ever in his first three seasons is easier to replace than a guy who just showed up this year? :headscratch



IMO, he had the most catches in his first 3 years because Philbin/Lazor based their offense on mostly short passes, and Landry seemed to be Tannehill's target every play. There was no true seam-threat TE to take passes away from Landry, and the only deep threat before Stills (Wallace) wasn't very productive. Landry started out being Tannehill's "security blanket" and got a lot of receptions. However, that didn't necessarily translate into more points. They rarely went deep under Philbin/Lazor, but the vertical passing game with Stills was used far more under Gase. I believe that Miami had more high-scoring games this past season than in previous years, and going deep to Stills (with his 9 TDs) was a big reason for that. This is why I truly believe that a deep threat (whether it be Stills or someone else who can be productive) is more valuable to the team than a slot receiver. The deep threat keeps the defense honest and can give you a TD or put you in scoring position quickly.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:06 am 
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gofins60 wrote:
Rich wrote:
The guy that has the most catches ever in his first three seasons is easier to replace than a guy who just showed up this year? :headscratch



IMO, he had the most catches in his first 3 years because Philbin/Lazor based their offense on mostly short passes, and Landry seemed to be Tannehill's target every play. There was no true seam-threat TE to take passes away from Landry, and the only deep threat before Stills (Wallace) wasn't very productive. Landry started out being Tannehill's "security blanket" and got a lot of receptions. However, that didn't necessarily translate into more points. They rarely went deep under Philbin/Lazor, but the vertical passing game with Stills was used far more under Gase. I believe that Miami had more high-scoring games this past season than in previous years, and going deep to Stills (with his 9 TDs) was a big reason for that. This is why I truly believe that a deep threat (whether it be Stills or someone else who can be productive) is more valuable to the team than a slot receiver. The deep threat keeps the defense honest and can give you a TD or put you in scoring position quickly.


Deep threats are worthless if teams don't have to key in on a go to guy like Landry, who also led the league in yards after the catch.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:08 am 
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Sorry, he was 2nd in the league at WR at yards after the catch. 56% of his yards were created by him making plays after the catch.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:00 pm 
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Not sure it belongs in this thread, but don't sleep on Rashawn Scott. Just watched his college highlights and he has excellent hands to go with great adjustment to the ball. Kaaya had some real trust in him and threw a lot of contested passes to him. I can see why Miami activated him for the last couple of games.

This receiving group is going to be really strong in 2017.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:45 pm 
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Regardless what happens with Stills it is time to get Carroo's career going here. We cannot afford to have that guy sitting.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:08 pm 
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Sorry gofins but Landry is without a doubt more valuable than Stills. I would say agree to disagree, but there is no way Stills should get more money than Jarvis.


Stills is a good player, but it's time to implement Carroo into the system. I wouldn't be sad if the F.O. decides to resign him, but I feel like our needs are too deep to spend big at WR twice.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:20 pm 
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This isn't a one or the other type of situation. In 2013 Miami gave Mike Wallace a 60 million, Brian Hartline 30 million and Brandon Gibson about 10 million. It didn't necessarily limit what they could spend elsewhere.

Same applies here. You'd be looking at Landry, Stills and Parker getting those dollars adjusted for inflation and today's cap.

Miami is going to be about $50 million under the cap when all is said and done. Branch, Sims, Bushrod and any other remaining free agents aren't going to get paid that much. Branch MIGHT get $6 million per year elsewhere and if so fine, sign a one year vet and draft a couple of guys in a loaded edge draft. But I think he's looking at the Derrick Shelby deal from last year which is affordable.

Now, if Stills is going to demand a monster contract then sure let him walk. If Philadelphia or San Francisco want to pay him like the Giants did with Olivier Vernon then accept the comp pick for next year. But there isn't any reason why you can't pay both Landry and Stills while Parker finishes the final three years of his rookie deal.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:43 pm 
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jammer wrote:
This isn't a one or the other type of situation. In 2013 Miami gave Mike Wallace a 60 million, Brian Hartline 30 million and Brandon Gibson about 10 million. It didn't necessarily limit what they could spend elsewhere.

Same applies here. You'd be looking at Landry, Stills and Parker getting those dollars adjusted for inflation and today's cap.

Miami is going to be about $50 million under the cap when all is said and done. Branch, Sims, Bushrod and any other remaining free agents aren't going to get paid that much. Branch MIGHT get $6 million per year elsewhere and if so fine, sign a one year vet and draft a couple of guys in a loaded edge draft. But I think he's looking at the Derrick Shelby deal from last year which is affordable.

Now, if Stills is going to demand a monster contract then sure let him walk. If Philadelphia or San Francisco want to pay him like the Giants did with Olivier Vernon then accept the comp pick for next year. But there isn't any reason why you can't pay both Landry and Stills while Parker finishes the final three years of his rookie deal.




My post was definitely based around thinking he was going to get bigger money from someone. Hell, I thought paying Rishard Matthews would have been a good move too. I would be fine with either decision. Signing him keeps our group of WRs who have grown together, intact. Letting him walk gives Carroo and co. the chance to prove themselves, as well as gives more money to spend elsewhere.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:55 pm 
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DanRambo wrote:
My post was definitely based around thinking he was going to get bigger money from someone. Hell, I thought paying Rishard Matthews would have been a good move too. I would be fine with either decision. Signing him keeps our group of WRs who have grown together, intact. Letting him walk gives Carroo and co. the chance to prove themselves, as well as gives more money to spend elsewhere.


He may very well get big money, I'm not ruling that out at all. A team like San Francisco has squat at WR and a ton of cap space, and Philly has been rumored to like him.

I'd give him a Randall Cobb type deal (4 years $40 million) if and ONLY IF you can get out of it after 2 years. Its all in the design and guaranteed money. I'm hoping its more of the 4 years $30-32 million.

The only guy who can potentially replace what Stills does is Parker, but at times you have both of them going down the field in 3 WR sets at the same time. I just don't want Miami creating a hole when they don't have to. A rookie or free agent will take time to adjust.

Stills is only 24 so he still has another "cash in" contract ahead of him (barring injury). Come to think of it, building upon what he's already accomplished in Miami could lead to a massive deal with his next contract. Might be best for him to give a slight hometown discount and work with a familiar scheme and QB.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:41 pm 
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gofins60 wrote:
My point is that if I had to overpay a player it would be Stills, not Landry. Maybe I should have said "easier to replace" rather than "expendable". Sorry, but I'm not a fan of Landry.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:48 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Deep threats are worthless if teams don't have to key in on a go to guy like Landry, who also led the league in yards after the catch.


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Armando Salguero wrote:
Indeed, I was told a couple of days back the team wants to keep Stills, but Stills “has to want to stay in Miami,” meaning he will have to give some as well. The team is not going to break the bank because it thinks it can find some comparable players in free agency, perhaps even for a lesser price.

And, of course the team would think that. But I think they mean it. The Dolphins realize they eventually have to pay Jarvis Landry. And DeVante Parker. So they can’t get crazy on Stills and start having the most expensive receiver corps in the AFC East in two years. (Would be nice if Leonte Carroo had promised more than he did his rookie year).


Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-c ... rylink=cpy

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:24 pm 
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Im hoping for this Dave. Im hoping that Stills gets "IT".
That Gase is the best thing that ever happened for his career. He has a fit here in a great city in a playmaker role, and he has nice chemistry with Tannehill.

Don't sell out and go to Frisco or some other hellhole just for dollar signs.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Parker wouldn't even enter the equation for me. He's hasn't even come close to earning a 2nd contract with Miami. If Im Grier Im planning to pay Landry handsomely and trying to keep Stills with a good but fair deal.
If we have to replace Parker in a couple of years so be it.
I could see Carroo leapfrogging him anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:49 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
Parker wouldn't even enter the equation for me. He's hasn't even come close to earning a 2nd contract with Miami. If Im Grier Im planning to pay Landry handsomely and trying to keep Stills with a good but fair deal.
If we have to replace Parker in a couple of years so be it.
I could see Carroo leapfrogging him anyway.

You don't see ANYTHING with Parker?


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