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 What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have? 
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Post What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
While I understand that people are all hoping that we find another Dan Marino, or a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning...but it isn't happening.

That said, in order to be a solid top 10 NFL Quarterback that can win games, and win a Super Bowl (not necessarily by himself), I'm curious to find out what you guys feel one does NEED to have to be that guy. For me, here are the qualifications. In green are what I think Henne does have. In yellow is what I think is somewhat there and will get there with development. In red is what I believe Henne does not have, and may not ever have.

At least solid arm strength
Cool under pressure/balls to step into a throw

Accuracy
Anticipation
Decision making
Touch
Patience yet have decisiveness in your game
Drive/competitiveness

Leadership
The 4th Quarter IT factor
---- While Henne has had a couple of 4th Q comebacks, and I am a supporter, I will admit that he just does not have an IT factor....not sure if that can come with time, or if it has to be there from day one.


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Throw more TDs than picks, stop locking onto recievers, and stop throwing into well covered recievers. Henne gets a lot of time to throw and he still can't make plays.


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Phins Rock wrote:
While Henne has had a couple of 4th Q comebacks, and I am a supporter, I will admit that he just does not have an IT factor....not sure if that can come with time, or if it has to be there from day one.


This is the type of gibberish fans make up when a guy doesn't have the ball bounce his way.

Kobe couldn't do it without Shaq, Jordan will never win a championship, Lebron doesn't play well when it counts, Manning will never win a Superbowl because he chokes in the playoffs.

Heard all this "IT" crap before.

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
2 things, the ability to audible, and an offensive coordinator that peaks his head out of his but once and awhile.


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
His touch should be in the red. And so should his anticipation. He throws a good timing route.. But, man this guy can not anticipate crap. He's always late with the throws too.. as he WAITS for his guy to get open instead of throwing him open or seeing him about to come open. His vision is questionable.. at best.

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Henne has the it, we dont unleash it. Our game doesnt change near the end with us being down and it makes no sense to me. Henne carved some(3 to be exact) masterpeices last year and was the main reason i beleived he is the guy.


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
While Henne has had a couple of 4th Q comebacks, and I am a supporter, I will admit that he just does not have an IT factor....not sure if that can come with time, or if it has to be there from day one.


This is the type of gibberish fans make up when a guy doesn't have the ball bounce his way.

Kobe couldn't do it without Shaq, Jordan will never win a championship, Lebron doesn't play well when it counts, Manning will never win a Superbowl because he chokes in the playoffs.

Heard all this "IT" crap before.


Rich. Like I said, if it can be developed, then great. But right now his 4th Quarter QB Rating is below 60, he has had 3 games where he has a chance to win a game in the 4th Q, and has failed each time.

IT is not something you can quantify, and it may be different for different people. But for me, Henne does not have the IT that Matt Ryan had/has, or even that Joe Flacco has. Again, I don't know how much of that is confidence/experience vs. something that comes from day 1, but right now he doesn't have it, IMO.


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
finfan109 wrote:
Henne has the it, we dont unleash it. Our game doesnt change near the end with us being down and it makes no sense to me. Henne carved some(3 to be exact) masterpeices last year and was the main reason i beleived he is the guy.


They pretty much abandoned the run after half time. They said to Henne. Win this game for us. And he couldn't do it. Of course.. it doesn't help when guys are dropping balls and he's getting sacked. But, he missed PLENTY of wide open guys running deep. And his piss poor slow anticipation led to 1 INT at least.

BTW.. I am pretty sure we did not game plan for running back passes at ALL! (foolish. Cam Cameron.. HELLO!?) I couldnt believe how unchecked and uncovered those guys were.

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Last edited by hypocritex on Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Phins Rock wrote:
Henne does not have the IT that Matt Ryan had/has, or even that Joe Flacco has. Again, I don't know how much of that is confidence/experience vs. something that comes from day 1, but right now he doesn't have it, IMO.


Then I guess IT means better talent and offensive coordinators.

All Henne has is Brandon Marshall. Flacco can go to Boldin, Rice or Mason. And if things aren't working there he can go to Whos your momma.

Ryan has multiple targets he can go to as well.

Henne has Marshall and a bunch of role players.

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
hypocritex wrote:
finfan109 wrote:
Henne has the it, we dont unleash it. Our game doesnt change near the end with us being down and it makes no sense to me. Henne carved some(3 to be exact) masterpeices last year and was the main reason i beleived he is the guy.


They pretty much abandoned the run after half time. They said to Henne. Win this game for us. And he couldn't do it. Of course.. it doesn't help when guys are dropping balls and he's getting sacked. But, he missed PLENTY of wide open guys running deep. And his piss poor slow anticipation led to 1 INT at least.


They abandoned the run.

Thank you. End of discussion.

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
hypocritex wrote:
His touch should be in the red. And so should his anticipation. He throws a good timing route.. But, man this guy can not anticipate crap. He's always late with the throws too.. as he WAITS for his guy to get open instead of throwing him open or seeing him about to come open. His vision is questionable.. at best.


This ^^^^

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Henne does not have the IT that Matt Ryan had/has, or even that Joe Flacco has. Again, I don't know how much of that is confidence/experience vs. something that comes from day 1, but right now he doesn't have it, IMO.


Then I guess IT means better talent and offensive coordinators.

All Henne has is Brandon Marshall. Flacco can go to Boldin, Rice or Mason. And if things aren't working there he can go to Whos your momma.

Ryan has multiple targets he can go to as well.

Henne has Marshall and a bunch of role players.


He doesn't have Bess?

I agree that the offense needs some more play-makers. Henne doesn't have a blanket TE, or a dynamic RB out of the backfield like Flacco has.

But that isn't it. You're either clutch, or you're not. You either step up your game in crunch time, or you don't. Henne hasn't. That's all I'm saying.


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
This is a team game and Henne needs his team to step and make some plays too. Too many dropped passes regardless of how "hard" they were to catch, and on the other side of the ball, every week there seems to be one guy who we can't figure out how to cover! Rice was running wild all day and Henne had nothing to do with that. Sean Smith had a gimme for 6 points, couldnt make it happen. We tackle like cheerleaders! What Henne needs is a team effort!


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Phins Rock wrote:
He doesn't have Bess?


Yes, a role player.

Quote:
You're either clutch, or you're not. You either step up your game in crunch time, or you don't. Henne hasn't. That's all I'm saying.


Show me a clutch QB with no one to throw to.

Hartline falling on a comeback. Marshall making a minimal effort on that slant. Ronnie and Marshall dropping passes in crunch time.

I agree Henne needs to improve, his pass at the goal line to Fasano was putrid. But let's be objective in our blame...

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
He doesn't have Bess?


Yes, a role player.

Quote:
You're either clutch, or you're not. You either step up your game in crunch time, or you don't. Henne hasn't. That's all I'm saying.


Show me a clutch QB with no one to throw to.

Hartline falling on a comeback. Marshall making a minimal effort on that slant. Ronnie and Marshall dropping passes in crunch time.

I agree Henne needs to improve, his pass at the goal line to Fasano was putrid. But let's be objective in our blame...


I am being objective. Rich, you accuse me of being a homer more than anybody. And I am a homer. I'm a huge Henne supporter and have been since he came out. But the numbers don't lie. Below 60 QB rating in the 4th Quarter is not clutch.

Yes, other guys let him down at times. But Henne didn't get it done when he needed to in the 4th Quarter for the 3rd time this season.

He has the talent and the brains. Right now though he is just missing those intangible qualities that can make or break you, and I think that's been the difference in a few of his performances.

BTW, that pass to Marshall was high. Should it have been caught....ehhh...if he did it would have been one hell of a grab.

Rich wrote:
Yes, a role player.


The best slot WR in the game. If that's a role player, than so is Ray Rice.


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Phins Rock wrote:
BTW, that pass to Marshall was high. Should it have been caught....ehhh...if he did it would have been one hell of a grab.


If it hits you in both hands, you come down with it. That's what top receivers do. He gave MINIMAL effort on that play. The commentators even said so.

Rich wrote:
The best slot WR in the game. If that's a role player, than so is Ray Rice.


Ray Rice is a feature back. He gets 20 carries a game and catches the ball out of the backfield.

Very poor comparison on your part.

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Ronnie can easily be a featured back as well. I think Ricky has naked pics of Henning and Soprano together.


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Makchell wrote:
Ronnie can easily be a featured back as well.


But he isn't.

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Rich wrote:
Ray Rice is a feature back. He gets 20 carries a game and catches the ball out of the backfield.

Very poor comparison on your part.


He's averaging 16 carries per game this season and averaged under 16 last year.

Bess is a play maker in the slot. A guy who is able to, and will at some point in his career, catch 100 passes perennially.

That's one hell of a role player...........
Rich wrote:
The commentators even said so.


Oh....the commentators said so. There we go then.


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
He doesn't have Bess?


Yes, a role player.

Quote:
You're either clutch, or you're not. You either step up your game in crunch time, or you don't. Henne hasn't. That's all I'm saying.


Show me a clutch QB with no one to throw to.

Hartline falling on a comeback. Marshall making a minimal effort on that slant. Ronnie and Marshall dropping passes in crunch time.

I agree Henne needs to improve, his pass at the goal line to Fasano was putrid. But let's be objective in our blame...


Its both. Henne has missed some throws in crunch time. Its unfortunate but its true. But over the last few games he probably has a few TD passes if not for drops and a few less Ints if not for a bad ruling (Pitt game) and some receiver blunders. But he is still not coming up with the big play when needed. He's missed some key clutch throws this year in almost every game.

The passing offense has been exposed somewhat. Take away Marshall and Bess and Henne is left with inconsistency. Hartline and Fasano have some really bad drops. Brown has dropped a few crucial 3rd down passes. And teams know they just have to drop two safeties back and make it a much tighter field to operate on with know true deep threat.

I thought Bess would be his safety valve but truth is you really need a good TE for that job. Dallas Clark, Heath Miller, Dustin Keller, Jeremy Shockey, Tony Gonzalez, Antonio Gates, etc...they've all bailed their QBs out on several occasions when the receivers cannot.


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Phins Rock wrote:
He's averaging 16 carries per game this season


If you can't do basic arithmetic, you're going to have trouble getting into college.

153 carries divided by 8 games equals 19.125 carries per game.

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Who cares what Ray Rice is doing. We are talking about what Henne isn't doing.


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
He's averaging 16 carries per game this season


If you can't do basic arithmetic, you're going to have trouble getting into college.

153 carries divided by 8 games equals 19.125 carries per game.


He was 131 carries this season....
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/p ... erId=11289


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Phins Rock wrote:
Rich wrote:
Bess is a play maker in the slot. A guy who is able to, and will at some point in his career, catch 100 passes perennially.

So you can prognosticate and use something that hasn't actually happened as an argument, but dismiss what people who actually played football said about the effort Marshall made?

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Phins Rock wrote:
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
He's averaging 16 carries per game this season


If you can't do basic arithmetic, you're going to have trouble getting into college.

153 carries divided by 8 games equals 19.125 carries per game.


He was 131 carries this season....
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/p ... erId=11289

That was thru 7 games.... look at the game column, genius.

Add 22 today and you get 153. :hithead:

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Makchell wrote:
Who cares what Ray Rice is doing. We are talking about what Henne isn't doing.


The point is Henne may not be doing it because he doesn't have players like Flacco and Ryan have to throw to. Try to follow along the context of the conversation if you can...

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Phins Rock wrote:
Rich wrote:
The commentators even said so.


Oh....the commentators said so. There we go then.

I thought it before the commentator even said it. And we know that I CANT be wrong. :)


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Rich wrote:
Bess is a play maker in the slot. A guy who is able to, and will at some point in his career, catch 100 passes perennially.

So you can prognosticate and use something that hasn't actually happened as an argument, but dismiss what people who actually played football said about the effort Marshall made?


I'm making a prediction. Dinkdoofus made an observation. There's a difference.

If in just his 3rd season he's on pace to catch 89 passes, and is getting inconsistent QB play, I think it's safe to say he's capable of going for 100 at some point down the road.


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
If you want to know what he needs then really look no further than the running game. Ronnie and Ricky aren't producing like they should. Part of that is the interior of the line. They are doing a nice job of protecting Henne but they aren't really opening big holes for the backs. But what do you expect from a career backup, an unhealthy rookie, a guy who has been passed around to a few teams, and a guy Dallas was happy to dump.

Get the ground game dominant and Henne's job is much easier.


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
jammer wrote:
If you want to know what he needs then really look no further than the running game. Ronnie and Ricky aren't producing like they should. Part of that is the interior of the line. They are doing a nice job of protecting Henne but they aren't really opening big holes for the backs. But what do you expect from a career backup, an unhealthy rookie, a guy who has been passed around to a few teams, and a guy Dallas was happy to dump.

Get the ground game dominant and Henne's job is much easier.


Ronnie gained 45 yards on 6 carries on the opening drive.

He got 4 touches the rest of the game.

You can't have a successful running game if you go away from it.

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Rich wrote:

If you can't do basic arithmetic, you're going to have trouble getting into college.

153 carries divided by 8 games equals 19.125 carries per game.


He was 131 carries this season....
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/p ... erId=11289

That was thru 7 games.... look at the game column, genius.

Add 22 today and you get 153. :hithead:


Still less than 20....


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
The point is Henne may not be doing it because he doesn't have players like Flacco and Ryan have to throw to. Try to follow along the context of the conversation if you can

LOL! Speaking of not following along.....Did I mention that Henne throws more picks than TDs? Did you watch the Bills light them up last week? They hardly have a RB or a good WR corp.


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Makchell wrote:
The point is Henne may not be doing it because he doesn't have players like Flacco and Ryan have to throw to. Try to follow along the context of the conversation if you can

LOL! Speaking of not following along.....Did I mention that Henne throws more picks than TDs? Did you watch the Bills light them up last week? They hardly have a RB or a good WR corp.


PFfffft .... Evans, Parrish, Johnson for the HOF! ;o)

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Makchell wrote:
The point is Henne may not be doing it because he doesn't have players like Flacco and Ryan have to throw to. Try to follow along the context of the conversation if you can

LOL! Speaking of not following along.....Did I mention that Henne throws more picks than TDs? Did you watch the Bills light them up last week? They hardly have a RB or a good WR corp.


Speaking of following along, how many of those picks were Henne's fault?

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
This thread is lost so move on! This is now an argument between Rich and Phins so what the rest of us say means nothing! I made valid points as well as many others and they get lost in the flooding of the thread by those 2. Of course it is Phins thread so so be it, I'm used to it and that's why I stay quiet!


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
wearemarshall wrote:
This thread is lost so move on! This is now an argument between Rich and Phins so what the rest of us say means nothing! I made valid points as well as many others and they get lost in the flooding of the thread by those 2. Of course it is Phins thread so so be it, I'm used to it and that's why I stay quiet!


Me and Rich are done.

wearemarshall wrote:
This is a team game and Henne needs his team to step and make some plays too. Too many dropped passes regardless of how "hard" they were to catch, and on the other side of the ball, every week there seems to be one guy who we can't figure out how to cover! Rice was running wild all day and Henne had nothing to do with that. Sean Smith had a gimme for 6 points, couldnt make it happen. We tackle like cheerleaders! What Henne needs is a team effort!


I agree that it's a team game, and again, Henne isn't Manning or Brady...not going to win a game by himself.

But a QB rating of 60 in the 4th quarter is just not good enough. I don't care if you have a Pro Bowl everything all around you...you either have it in crunch time or not, and right now Henne doesn't.

He did at time last season, but overall lacked it as well. Hopefully he proves me wrong and steps up his game, but he needs to.


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Phins Rock wrote:
But a QB rating of 60 in the 4th quarter is just not good enough. I don't care if you have a Pro Bowl everything all around you...you either have it in crunch time or not, and right now Henne doesn't.


How many QBs have it at crunch time with nothing around them?

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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
But a QB rating of 60 in the 4th quarter is just not good enough. I don't care if you have a Pro Bowl everything all around you...you either have it in crunch time or not, and right now Henne doesn't.


How many QBs have it at crunch time with nothing around them?


Phillip Rivers, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Jason Campbell and Matt Cassell (at least right now), Josh Freeman, Colt McCoy.

And did you just imply that Henne has NOTHING around him?


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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Rich wrote:
jammer wrote:
If you want to know what he needs then really look no further than the running game. Ronnie and Ricky aren't producing like they should. Part of that is the interior of the line. They are doing a nice job of protecting Henne but they aren't really opening big holes for the backs. But what do you expect from a career backup, an unhealthy rookie, a guy who has been passed around to a few teams, and a guy Dallas was happy to dump.

Get the ground game dominant and Henne's job is much easier.


Ronnie gained 45 yards on 6 carries on the opening drive.

He got 4 touches the rest of the game.

You can't have a successful running game if you go away from it.


Exactly. I said in another thread that had they let Ronnie just pound it to wear down the defense then Henne has the field open up for him. Whether its play call, play design, or effort level, the ground game has to be more productive. Henne isn't going to win games and the defense isn't going to hold teams to under 20 points each week.

I have no idea why Brown didn't have 20 carries today.


Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:24 pm
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Post Re: What does a QB need that Henne doesn't have?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
But a QB rating of 60 in the 4th quarter is just not good enough. I don't care if you have a Pro Bowl everything all around you...you either have it in crunch time or not, and right now Henne doesn't.


How many QBs have it at crunch time with nothing around them?


It is football. You cannot isolate one player from the rest of the team.

Henne hasn't been put into the best situation to win by his coaches. His defense leaves something to be desired. Could he play better? Sure. But, I'm not writing him off when we have other problems on the team that are preventing us from winning games.

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Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:26 pm
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