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 Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today? 
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Post Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
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1. The benching of Chad Henne reverberates back to the first decision made by the Bill Parcells regime: drafting tackle Jake Long with the No. 1 overall pick instead of quarterback Matt Ryan. You can understand why it was done. And Long is the best tackle in the game right now.

But would you trade Long for Ryan today?

...

Could they have taken Long and traded up for Joe Flacco? Ryan and Flacco look like stable, franchise quarterbacks now, the kind you can build long runs on. The Dolphins, meanwhile, are back to drafting a quarterback next April. Maybe they're back to finding a new regime to draft that quarterback, depending on what owner Steve Ross thinks.

2. Chad Henne showed more public personality in his first seconds as a benched quarterback than he did in nearly two years as starter. "What, you guys don't want to talk by a naked Ryan Baker?" he asked reporters who, yep, didn't want to talk at his locker with naked Ryan Baker in the next locker.

3. Baltimore's draft decision in 2008 was Flacco or Henne. They sure picked right, didn't they?

4. If the move to Pennington wasn't made now, there was no point in making it. The Dolphins are 4-4. They're on the fringe of the playoff picture. Lose to Tennessee and they're done, not only because the record would go to 4-5, but because they'd lose head-to-head tie-breakers to Tenneseee, Baltimore, New England, Pittsburgh and the New York Jets.

5. On Wednesday's other move, it's hard to imagine Jason Allen can't help an awful special-teams unit right now more than 35-year-old Al Harris can step in and help the secondary.



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Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:23 am
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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
LTs are as hard to come by as QBs. Tough call. I do believe that Henne will rebound from this and hopefully become our QB of the present/future. I would say no.


Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:28 pm
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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Makchell wrote:
LTs are as hard to come by as QBs. Tough call. I do believe that Henne will rebound from this and hopefully become our QB of the present/future. I would say no.


My thoughts exactly.

Although it is hard for me to say that I wouldn't take Matt Ryan number 1 overall, if I could go back in time.


Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:46 pm
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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
No, absolutely not.

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Not even a second thought. Jake is a stud, arguably the best LT in the NFL, and he has accomplised that in 3 years time...

Thats an anchor of our offense that is in place for years to come....

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Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:09 pm
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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
If Ryan came here he would of been in the same boat as the other decades worth of QB's we've had rotate through here because of a swiss cheese O-Line and poor playcalling(i'm aware some of the QB's just flat out sucked). Long has been the only guy on that line that can dominate defenders on a consistent level no way you give him up.

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
I'm not sure what Jake Long is doing for us that 20-30 others left tackles could not.

We hardly run the ball so he is not used much there.

We rarely throw the ball downfield so he is also underused there.

We barely run any screen plays so he does not block downfield on them.


Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:56 pm
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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Take long, trade up for Flacco (my original wanting from 2008). I like Henne though. I thought at the time we were good. I still think we're good with him, just not our OC.


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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Njphin wrote:
because of a swiss cheese O-Line



Well in all honesty the O-line has been stellar in pass protection... Henne has time to evaluate his reads 2 or 3 times......

The problem seems to be our offense is limited to 20 yards from the line of scrimmage, we rarely look beyond that...

Whether that is on Henne, Henning or Sparano is the big question right now..

If Pennington starts throwng down field, we may all be eating our words... I know he isnt the strongest armed QB, but he can throw 20 - 30 yards on an out route...

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Dan Henning say Chad Henne was every bit the franchise quarterback that Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco were at the conclusion of the 08 season?


Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:08 pm
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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Ski_Money wrote:
Take long, trade up for Flacco (my original wanting from 2008). I like Henne though. I thought at the time we were good. I still think we're good with him, just not our OC.

Flacco is no better than Henne. He just plays on a better team & has the support of his coaching staff.


Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:12 pm
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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Flacco is no better than Henne. He just plays on a better team & has the support of his coaching staff.

He looked pretty good last sunday.


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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
They are almost the same QB if you think about it. Big arms, big frame etc. Henne just suffers from Henning.


Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:14 pm
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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Flacco is clearly a better QB than Henne. I would gladly have taken Ryan over Long with perfect hindsight...provided we could have identified an adequate left tackle in later rounds (need to go back and look at that draft...did Clady come out in that one??).

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Manning hasn't resigned to the Colts yet. Just saying :)

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
yep...but Clady was also an early 1st rounder....so we would probably have had to look for a free agent. I looked over the first three rounds. Almost made me cry to see we could have had Jamaal Charles with our 3rd round pick. No Hampton that way...perhaps....

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Dphins4me wrote:
Ski_Money wrote:
Take long, trade up for Flacco (my original wanting from 2008). I like Henne though. I thought at the time we were good. I still think we're good with him, just not our OC.

Flacco is no better than Henne. He just plays on a better team & has the support of his coaching staff.


Better team no doubt .....

But "free reign" hasn't been the case .....

Quote:
If the Ravens didn't have a meeting with Joe Flacco Monday, then they need to have one Tuesday morning. After the overtime loss to the New England Patriots Sunday, there was a sense of frustration from the third-year quarterback.

Flacco didn't say a word about it in the locker room Sunday, but he came close by mixing his words, and it was written all over his face as well as some of the receivers. It might be time for coach John Harbaugh and offensive coordinator Cam Cameron to give Flacco some rope.

He led fourth-quarter comebacks in the Cleveland and Pittsburgh games and was solid for a half against Denver. He played extremely well for three quarters against the Patriots until Cameron took the ball out of his hands and tried to place it in the stomach or hands of running back Ray Rice for almost every play.

It was obvious that Flacco was not pleased. He didn't defend the conservative approach late in the game and seemed irritated that he was forced to run certain plays, like the pass late in the game down the left sideline to tight end Todd Heap where Flacco never looked at another receiver.

It was apparent Sunday that Flacco was told where to throw the ball and that he couldn't check out of certain plays. That was a solid game plan for the previous two seasons, but this is Flacco's third year. The Ravens don't have to turn Flacco into Peyton Manning, but they drafted Flacco in the first round three years ago because they thought he was a franchise-caliber quarterback.

Unless they loosen the handcuffs a little bit, they'll never find out if he can lead them deep into the postseason when quarterbacks have to be at their best.


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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Ski_Money wrote:
They are almost the same QB if you think about it. Big arms, big frame etc. Henne just suffers from Henning.


Flacco throws a much better ball IMO.

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Rock Sexton wrote:
Ski_Money wrote:
They are almost the same QB if you think about it. Big arms, big frame etc. Henne just suffers from Henning.


Flacco throws a much better ball IMO.


Has better touch for sure.

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Makchell wrote:

He looked pretty good last sunday.

Yeap, screen passes. Plus do not discount the fact his coaching staff has his back & will allow him to go down the field.. When he threw 4 picks in Wk. 2 there was no talk about benching him. With Henne, its different.


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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Henne is better than you guys think. Why so quick to turn on him?


Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:55 pm
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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Dphins4me wrote:
Makchell wrote:

He looked pretty good last sunday.

Yeap, screen passes. Plus do not discount the fact his coaching staff has his back & will allow him to go down the field.. When he threw 4 picks in Wk. 2 there was no talk about benching him. With Henne, its different.


This.

Flacco is ahead of Henne because he has played in more games, and he has a team/system based around him. He also has slightly more QB-friendly talent around him.


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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Flacco is clearly a better QB than Henne. I would gladly have taken Ryan over Long with perfect hindsight...provided we could have identified an adequate left tackle in later rounds (need to go back and look at that draft...did Clady come out in that one??).

Clearly? Based on?

He should be a better Qb though.. He has many more starts under his belt.

Had Miami taken Ryan over Long he would already be out the door in Miami.

Yes, Clady came out. He was a 1st Rd. pick.


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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
10acjed wrote:
Njphin wrote:
because of a swiss cheese O-Line



Well in all honesty the O-line has been stellar in pass protection... Henne has time to evaluate his reads 2 or 3 times......

The problem seems to be our offense is limited to 20 yards from the line of scrimmage, we rarely look beyond that...

Whether that is on Henne, Henning or Sparano is the big question right now..

If Pennington starts throwng down field, we may all be eating our words... I know he isnt the strongest armed QB, but he can throw 20 - 30 yards on an out route...


I wouldn't call our pass protection stellar. If you look alittle closer when Henne has and NEEDS all that time to throw it's because only 1-2 guys are actually running routes everyone else is in blocking. If he doesn't wait for the TE or RB to get off thier block so he can check it down then he has 3 options force it into double/triple coverage, take a sack or throw it away.

If Henne is going to succeed with the Dolphins then A. we need to start running the ball better or B. start spreading out our offense and get some more recievers on field. Throwing out of running formations is only effective if you can actually run the ball and play action well otherwise your just wasting your time.

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Yes...Flacco is clearly a better QB than Henne. He has been a starter for 3 years and never threw more INT's than TD's. He also has a career 88.9 rating which is a lot better than Henne's career 76.3 rating. Oh, and Flacco can actually run. Henne looks like he is running in quicksand with high top boots on.

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Ryan and Flacco look good because they have good tight ends with a consistent running game and excellent defenses. Henne had neither.

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Iowafin wrote:
Ryan and Flacco look good because they have good tight ends with a consistent running game and excellent defenses. Henne had neither.


You can probably lump Sanchez in that category too.


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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
No, Mat Ryan would be killed behind a Miami OL without Jake Long.

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Gentlax13 wrote:
No, Mat Ryan would be killed behind a Miami OL without Jake Long.


People say that.....But tell me something. Who is Atlanta's LT?

And is he better than what Carey would be on the left side?


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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Phins Rock wrote:
Gentlax13 wrote:
No, Mat Ryan would be killed behind a Miami OL without Jake Long.


People say that.....But tell me something. Who is Atlanta's LT?

And is he better than what Carey would be on the left side?


Sam Baker...and yes.

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Phins Rock wrote:
Gentlax13 wrote:
No, Mat Ryan would be killed behind a Miami OL without Jake Long.


People say that.....But tell me something. Who is Atlanta's LT?

And is he better than what Carey would be on the left side?


Sam Baker was a top 20 pick and has been good when healthy.


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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
If we're going to play this game and say should Miami have gone after a 1st round QB then it would have made more sense to move up and get Flacco by dealing both 2nd rounders for whatever pick he was taken.

I'd still prefer they had taken a better player (not Merling, who dropped for a reason) at the top of the 2nd and Henne later in the round.


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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
If we are playing the what if game:

Second Round
1. (32) Miami - Phillip Merling, DE Clemson
2. (33) St. Louis - Donnie Avery, WR Houston
3. (34) Washington (From Raiders through Falcons) - Devin Thomas, WR Michigan State
4. (35) Kansas City - Brandon Flowers, CB Virginia Tech
5. (36) Green Bay (From Jets) - Jordy Nelson, WR Kansas State
6. (37) Atlanta - Curtis Lofton, LB Oklahoma
7. (38) Seattle (From Ravens) - John Carlson, TE Notre Dame
8. (39) San Francisco - Chilo Rachal, OG Southern Cal
9. (40) New Orleans - Tracy Porter, CB Indiana
10. (41) Buffalo - James Hardy, WR Indiana
11. (42) Denver - Eddie Royal, WR Virginia Tech
12. (43) Minnesota (From Panthers through Eagles) - Tyrell Johnson, FS Arkansas State
13. (44) Chicago - Matt Forte, RB Tulane
14. (45) Detroit - Jordon Dizon, OLB Colorado
15. (46) Cincinnati - Jerome Simpson, WR Coastal Carolina
16. (47) Philadelphia (From Vikings) - Trevor Laws, DT Notre Dame
17. (48) Washington (From Texans through Falcons) - Fred Davis, TE USC
18. (49) Philadelphia - DeSean Jackson, WR California
19. (50) Arizona - Calais Campbell, DE Miami
20. (51) Washington - Malcolm Kelly, WR Oklahoma
21. (52) Jacksonville (From Buccaneers) - Quentin Groves, DE Auburn
22. (53) Pittsburgh - Limas Sweed, WR Texas
23. (54) Tennessee - Jason Jones, DE Eastern Michigan
24. (55) Baltimore (From Seahawks) - Ray Rice, RB Rutgers
25. (56) Green Bay (From Browns) - Brian Brohm, QB Louisville
26. (57) Miami (From Chargers) - Chad Henne, QB Michigan
27. (58) Tampa Bay (From Jaguars) - Dexter Jackson, WR Appalachian State
28. (59) Indianapolis - Mike Pollak, C Arizona State
29. (60) Green Bay - Patrick Lee, DB Auburn
30. (61) Dallas - Martellus Bennett, TE Texas A&M
31. (62) New England - Terrence Wheatley, CB Colorado
32. (63) NY Giants - Terrell Thomas, CB USC


Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:23 pm
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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Both players are very talented, both were worthy of the first overall pick. I think the quarterback position is more important than the left tackle position, but you can't have a good football team if you don't have both. I still like our team's decision in taking Long, he's been a great player for us. We'll just have to wait and see. If Henne can bounce back from this and lead our team to a championship, then we made the right choice. If Atlanta starts winning championships and Matt Ryan is their quarterback, then maybe we should have gone another direction. Either way, we made a good choice taking Jake Long.


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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Well if this is the last we will see of Henne, I'd still lean towards Long. However, call me hopeful here, if we haven't seen the last of Henne, if he can develop into a solid qb, then there can be little or no doubt as to us having made the right choice. Like others have said here, a LT in this league can be harder to come by than a qb.


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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Yes...Flacco is clearly a better QB than Henne. He has been a starter for 3 years and never threw more INT's than TD's. He also has a career 88.9 rating which is a lot better than Henne's career 76.3 rating. Oh, and Flacco can actually run. Henne looks like he is running in quicksand with high top boots on.

I disagree. Put Flacco in Miami & he is a different QB. He would be told to play it safe.

Run? When it comes to Qb that is irrelevant.


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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Phin wrote:
if he can develop into a solid qb


I truly believe he can. I've seen so many quarterbacks come into Miami and look completely lost. Pennington and Henne have been the only two to come in and look confident. That has a lot to do with the o-liine, no doubt, but we all saw Pat White with that same line...
Henne is a different breed. Something you can't just go pick up...and he's younger than Pennington, and has a stronger arm. If Miami truly believes he's not playing good enough, someone is a little spoiled and will regret it.

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
My answer is Absolutly not. Jake Long is a monster at LT. A real bad butt. After hearing that Chad Henne cannot auitable out of the plays at the line I believe that it has to be the play calling.

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Von Chahe wrote:
My answer is Absolutly not. Jake Long is a monster at LT. A real bad butt. After hearing that Chad Henne cannot auitable out of the plays at the line I believe that it has to be the play calling.


It's so much more than play calling...Henne included in the list of poor play. Fasano sucks, the running game is inconsistent, Hartline is inconsistent (In a sophomore slump like I said he'd be), the defense doesn't help when they can't get off the field......it seems like:
Henne gets time, makes right read, makes perfect throw, dropped pass OR
Henne gets time, makes wrong read, ball is tipped/intercepted OR
Henne gets time, makes right read, throws bad pass incomplete/intercepted OR
Henne gets no time, sacked...
we can't seem to get everything clicking at the same time....that starts with training camp, with practice, game planning. Who's fault is that?
The coaching staff, the players and everyone else.
Changing in and out of lineman, running backs, receivers, linebackers, corners, safeties: it just doesn't work!....LET'S GET SOME DAMN CONSISTENCY GOING

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Post Re: Hyde5: Would you trade Long for Ryan today?
Makchell wrote:
Flacco is no better than Henne. He just plays on a better team & has the support of his coaching staff.

He looked pretty good last sunday.


Yeah, throwing dumpoffs to a WIDE OPEN Ray Rice...

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