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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:15 pm 
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Dolphins would be better served upgrading areas other than QB

It's difficult to say, for certain, who will be the starting quarterback for about three quarters of the teams picking in the top half of the 2011 NFL Draft.

But sticking with the status quo -- given the circumstances of this offseason -- might be best for some of the teams in that group. The argument can be made the Miami Dolphins are one such team.

I'm not sure there's a single person in the team's facility in Davie, Fla., who feels nearly as strongly about Chad Henne as they did at this time last year. But there's some merit to keeping him in place as the team's starting quarterback, which I'm hearing the team will likely do, even if it does select a rookie QB early in the draft.

Perhaps the best reason why is that the club feels like it failed to get Henne, who proved he's not quite the kind of quarterback who can raise the play of others, enough help. The interior of the offensive line collapsed, the running game sagged, and suddenly the smash-mouth offense Henne was tasked to manage in 2009 became an outfit he had to carry in 2010.

Henne couldn't do that -- throwing more interceptions than touchdown passes for the second straight year -- and the Dolphins have recognized it.

So it's completely conceivable that the Dolphins could work to rebuild the running game by fortifying the interior of the offensive line and turning over the running backs, and thus reasonably expect better quarterback play from Henne.

I've gotten crucified (deservedly) for picking Miami to outlast the Patriots (who finished 14-2) and Jets (who went to a second straight AFC Championship Game) and win the AFC East in 2010. I probably won't do it again.

But I do think the foundation is there to be pretty good. A young defense has serious cornerstones in Vontae Davis, Karlos Dansby and Cameron Wake, and should continue to ascend in the second year under Mike Nolan. The offense isn't that far off from being pretty good, with improvements most needed at positions where new players can come in and contribute quickly.

The big question remains at quarterback. Last year, the Dolphins found out what they needed to know about Henne. Now, one plan on the table in Miami is to put players around Henne who will allow him to be a complementary piece

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... er-than-qb

That last paragraph says it all. Henne might be able to get back up to average, and good enough to manage a good team to the Playoffs. But he's not a Super Bowl caliber QB.

Ireland is safe, and it's his draft. I think if there's somebody they like in the first round they will take him.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:26 pm 
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As he should be.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:52 pm 
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Iowafin wrote:
As he should be.


What did he do last year to make you say that? You say that as if he deserves to be the starter based off of last year's performance.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:27 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Iowafin wrote:
As he should be.


What did he do last year to make you say that? You say that as if he deserves to be the starter based off of last year's performance.


No, I say that as if he is the best option. Also, based on what he did the year before last.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:05 am 
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No problem, but let's groom his successor if he repeats his 2010 effort. He did nothing to say that he is "the man", but he does flash that potential.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:10 am 
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Phins Rock wrote:
That last paragraph says it all. Henne might be able to get back up to average, and good enough to manage a good team to the Playoffs. But he's not a Super Bowl caliber QB.


So after two seasons starting, that's it? This has been set in stone?

I wonder if anyone told Kurt Warner and Rich Gannon that.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:16 am 
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The last paragraph isn't even remotely definitive and is nothing but the opinion of a reporter.

What is definitive on Henne is you don't know how it will pan out. He could be a guy who could lead a team, he could be a guy who just manages games, or he could be simply fighting for a roster spot in a few years. Lets stop pretending we all know how his career will wind up.

Last year he had no running game, an OC who called horrendous games and lost confidence in himself. That is bad planning, bad luck and bad leadership...on all parties. We aren't talking talent here. I haven't heard a single analyst say Henne doesn't have the talent to get it done. What he needs to be is a better leader and have the game slow down. If he needs to be provided with better weapons then so be it. Almost all of the "great" QBs win on teams loaded with talent.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:19 am 
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Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
That last paragraph says it all. Henne might be able to get back up to average, and good enough to manage a good team to the Playoffs. But he's not a Super Bowl caliber QB.


So after two seasons starting, that's it? This has been set in stone?

I wonder if anyone told Kurt Warner and Rich Gannon that.


In Brees 3rd year in the NFL (2nd year as a starter), he threw 11 touchdowns and 15 interceptions. The light came on in year 4. I think we've all seen some things in Henne that look really good. There are some things that look really bad as well. I am not ready to kick him to the curb just yet. Do I think we should draft a QB in the first round? Darn right, but in my mind, I am hoping that Henne finally shows us all what we and many of the sports media thought he can do after his first year.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:41 am 
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Henne will be the opening day starter. If the upcoming season is like last I can see a more permanent benching. Seems status quo already .... going into a season with so many questions at the QB spot.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:43 am 
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Big Dave wrote:
Do I think we should draft a QB in the first round? Darn right, but in my mind, I am hoping that Henne finally shows us all what we and many of the sports media thought he can do after his first year.


Not sure Miami has the luxury to do that unless they trade back. If they have a conviction on a guy like Mallet or Ponder then I guess they do it under the assumption that guy is franchise material. Otherwise take a guy who will add to the foundation and help Henne succeed.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:32 am 
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Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
That last paragraph says it all. Henne might be able to get back up to average, and good enough to manage a good team to the Playoffs. But he's not a Super Bowl caliber QB.


So after two seasons starting, that's it? This has been set in stone?

I wonder if anyone told Kurt Warner and Rich Gannon that.


There are exceptions to everything. But I think there's a reason why no 2nd round QBs have panned out in the last 10 drafts.

Chad has shown some promising moments, but he's lost the confidence of the organization and his teammates. To me, once that happens, it's over.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:35 am 
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Marshall doesn't have a problem with Henne as the opening day starter ... at least not right now.


Quote:
Marshall says he's fine with Henne
Brandon Marshall says he's happy with Chad Henne as his quarterback heading into 2011.

Marshall previously expressed doubt about whether or not Henne was the best man to get him the ball, but has changed his tune. It may be just because he's realized Henne will be the Dolphins' starter, but it's still a relief Marshall didn't end up creating a distraction. He should better his disappointing 2010 next season.


http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/32398192/ns/sports-nfl/

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:52 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Chad has shown some promising moments, but he's lost the confidence of the organization and his teammates. To me, once that happens, it's over.


Is this based on Marshall, Bess, Fasano, Long, Hartline and Sparano all coming out in support of him this offseason?

Or the dubious remarks of Jeff Ireland to throw other teams off and Ricky Williams throwing everyone in the organziation under the bus?

If he's lost the confidence of the organziation, why aren't they immediately turning to Tyler Thigpen?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:13 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Chad has shown some promising moments, but he's lost the confidence of the organization and his teammates. To me, once that happens, it's over.


Is this based on Marshall, Bess, Fasano, Long, Hartline and Sparano all coming out in support of him this offseason?

Or the dubious remarks of Jeff Ireland to throw other teams off and Ricky Williams throwing everyone in the organziation under the bus?

If he's lost the confidence of the organziation, why aren't they immediately turning to Tyler Thigpen?


Is Tyler Thigpen a legitimate option?

Marshall after the season was extremely frustrated with Henne and basically called Thigpen the better QB. Will Allen has bashed him in the background several times this off season. And the organization has said that they are looking to bring in competition at the least. Also, there have been reports from local and national media outlets on the front office's lukewarm feeling about Chad.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:40 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Is Tyler Thigpen a legitimate option?


Based on what the Dolphins and Thiggy have said, they seem to both be in agreement that they should part company.


Phins Rock wrote:
Marshall after the season was extremely frustrated with Henne and basically called Thigpen the better QB.


LOL. Well, I think we all know that Brandon Marshall is all about the guy who can make him look the best. Thigpen has no fear in throwing the ball deep. Not sure what Henne's problem is (coaching or just Henne?), but Henne seems to be better at dinking and dunking down the field. Funny, since he has a very powerful arm. The Dolphins probably prefer Henne over Thigpen because he is more careful with the ball and is better at ball control.

Phins Rock wrote:
And the organization has said that they are looking to bring in competition at the least.


They had better. If Henne plays like he did in the 2nd half of the season last year they will be out of jobs at the end of the year. Our new owner likes to look good and losing doesn't wear so well on him. It all isn't on Henne. They need to protect him with their base offense and give him several targets to throw to, not just a couple of options.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:56 pm 
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If this is true, I suspect Henne and Sparano are both seeing their last season as Dolphins....

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:42 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Is Tyler Thigpen a legitimate option?

Marshall after the season was extremely frustrated with Henne and basically called Thigpen the better QB. Will Allen has bashed him in the background several times this off season. And the organization has said that they are looking to bring in competition at the least. Also, there have been reports from local and national media outlets on the front office's lukewarm feeling about Chad.


If Miami was so down on Chad Henne why wouldn't they have cast him aside and used Thigpen as the leader in the clubhouse for competition?

So Marshall's comments a week after the season, frustrated with everyone, should carry more weight than his offseason comments after he's had time to reflect and realize that there is still potential? Why would he be in contact with Henne to workout if he's lost confidence?

Of course they will bring in competition, but that serves multiple purposes, not to let Henne know he's being replaced. Ever consider it might be to light a fire under him or to hedge against him not being a long term answer? I'm sorry but the Miami reporters have come off looking like dopes at times with their speculation this offseason, especially Omar Kelly and Armando Salguero, when they have tried to float rumors and have been dismissed by more national media outlets. See Salguero's latest with Palmer.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:47 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:

Is Tyler Thigpen a legitimate option?


You said he was.
You also said he sucks after 3 passes against Chicago.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:37 pm 
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Iowafin wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:

Is Tyler Thigpen a legitimate option?


You said he was.
You also said he sucks after 3 passes against Chicago.


I never said he sucked? I'm higher on him than most. I think he's a better option than Henne. I don't think he's a legitimate option if we want to go to the Playoffs though.

Jammer, what else is Marshall supposed to say at this point? It looks like Henne is going to be the starter, so, naturally he's going to say the right things. Not saying that he's BS'ing it or that it was sincere, but I have learned over the last few years to take players comments in the Off Season (or really at any point) about a teammate with a grain of salt. Remember Ricky Williams last year, and how Pat White was a "real QB now", or something to that effect....

The organization is not comfortable with him going into Training Camp as the starter. They have made that clear. If that isn't losing confidence in your starter, what is?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:49 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Not saying that he's BS'ing it


Isn't that exactly what you're saying? When has Marshall ever been the good soldier? Its called reflection and understanding that there is still potential.

The organization is protecting itself because Henne hasn't yet proven he is the long term answer. That's a big difference from losing confidence in a guy. Its pretty obvious they want to him to work to earn his job which is a natural thing given his struggles. Losing confidence would be them taking the Minnesota, Carolina or Tennessee approach where they couldn't make it more obvious they are drafting a new guy to be the long term answer.

No one is saying Henne is guaranteed to be the guy. You keep emphasizing that we have seen all he can do and its time to move on, and thats why people keep debating with you.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:49 pm 
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I don't care what Marshall says now. if Henne falters all he will be saying is I told you so.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:37 pm 
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FINesse wrote:
I don't care what Marshall says now. if Henne falters all he will be saying is I told you so.


That may be, but right now the impression he is giving is that he has some faith in Henne. Interpret it how you like, but don't deny that Henne has received support from his teammates this offseason, even prior to the indication that Miami is turning to him as the starter.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:01 pm 
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Look, the bottom line is Chad Henne WILL get every opportunity to start the season as Miami's starter. IF he falters again, his leash will be extremely short based on who they draft or pick up in free agency. However, it is up to the coaches/GM to get a better plan together to help Henne succeed better this upcoming season.

If Henne executes and does well, then great, that's what we all want to happen, but if he falls apart at the seams and throws stupid interceptions and makes poor decisions, look for him to hit the bench pretty fast and become an NFL professional clip board holder.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:13 pm 
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Im pulling for Henne. But of course he is getting full support of his teammates. You cannot go into a season publicly doubting your QB. My point is , if things sour with Henne most of his teammates will say the right things like the staff just thought it was the right time for a change. Marshall however wont be so mature about it.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:16 pm 
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Marshall acts mature when everything is going his way and going well. He does not handle it well when the going gets tough.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:19 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
There are exceptions to everything. But I think there's a reason why no 2nd round QBs have panned out in the last 10 drafts.


The reason could be that teams and fans expect immediate results and don't give those players the proper time, coaching and opportunity to develop.

Heck, San Diego did it to Brees, a QB that was drafted in the 2nd round exactly 10 years ago, so your fact is wrong.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:21 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
I'm higher... than most.


Fact.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:38 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
There are exceptions to everything. But I think there's a reason why no 2nd round QBs have panned out in the last 10 drafts.


The reason could be that teams and fans expect immediate results and don't give those players the proper time, coaching and opportunity to develop.

Heck, San Diego did it to Brees, a QB that was drafted in the 2nd round exactly 10 years ago, so your fact is wrong.


I meant since Brees.

And even Drew was the 1st pick of the second round, and was expected to go somewhere in the first round.

If you have the talent to play in the NFL and be a true franchise QB, than your going in the first round. Sure, there are guys with some tools that you can "work with" in the 2nd and 3rd round, but ultimately if you're an elite prospect your going early. All the good young QB's in the league today are former first round picks, and most of the established ones are as well (Brady and Brees being the obvious exceptions).
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
I'm higher... than most.


Fact.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:06 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
And even Drew was the 1st pick of the second round, and was expected to go somewhere in the first round.


Ironically, Henne was expected to go in the first round and was a strong possibility for the Ravens up to the last minute. And, if Merling wasn't on the board he would have been the first pick of the 2nd round.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:09 pm 
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All the draft allocades are cool about Henne. Hopefully, this coming season he has his breakout year. If not, that will be shame if Miami has to burn through yet another Quarterback.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:30 pm 
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Finhead wrote:
Look, the bottom line is Chad Henne WILL get every opportunity to start the season as Miami's starter. IF he falters again, his leash will be extremely short based on who they draft or pick up in free agency. However, it is up to the coaches/GM to get a better plan together to help Henne succeed better this upcoming season.

If Henne executes and does well, then great, that's what we all want to happen, but if he falls apart at the seams and throws stupid interceptions and makes poor decisions, look for him to hit the bench pretty fast and become an NFL professional clip board holder.


Couldn't have said it better myself. It's do or die for Henne this year. If he doesn't improve greatly and lead us to the playoffs I see the Phins going in another direction at QB. It's year four of his career and year three as our starter, it's time to step up or sit down. The erratic play and costly turnovers must be greatly reduced if Henne wants to be our quarterback heading into the future. The Dolphins are already scouting backup plans. I think it's time we invested heavily at the quarterback position. Round one I'm hoping the Dolphins go QB. Henne is probably the furthest thing from a sure fire starter at this point in his career so having a top tier rookie backup training and waiting in the wings is a good idea in my opinion. Worst case scenario, Henne crumbles under the pressure and our rookie takes his licks and gets a few games under this belt this year. I hope that doesn't happen, but the Dolphins as a team should be ready for that scenario if it happens.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:30 am 
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Phins Rock wrote:
If you have the talent to play in the NFL and be a true franchise QB, than your going in the first round.


Tell that to Tom Brady, Matt Schaub, Matt Cassell, Matt Hasselback, Brett Favre, Kyle Orton, David Garrard, Drew Brees, Marc Bulger, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Jake Plummer, Mark Brunell, Trent Green, Brad Johnson, Chris Chandler, Rich Gannon, Randall Cunningham, Bernie Kosar, Boomer Esiason, Steve Young, Joe Montana...

I could go on and on...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:04 am 
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Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
If you have the talent to play in the NFL and be a true franchise QB, than your going in the first round.


Tell that to Tom Brady, Matt Schaub, Matt Cassell, Matt Hasselback, Brett Favre, Kyle Orton, David Garrard, Drew Brees, Marc Bulger, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Jake Plummer, Mark Brunell, Trent Green, Brad Johnson, Chris Chandler, Rich Gannon, Randall Cunningham, Bernie Kosar, Boomer Esiason, Steve Young, Joe Montana...

I could go on and on...


Some of the best ever, there goes the 1st round theory!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:10 am 
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Dolfanrar wrote:
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
If you have the talent to play in the NFL and be a true franchise QB, than your going in the first round.


Tell that to Tom Brady, Matt Schaub, Matt Cassell, Matt Hasselback, Brett Favre, Kyle Orton, David Garrard, Drew Brees, Marc Bulger, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Jake Plummer, Mark Brunell, Trent Green, Brad Johnson, Chris Chandler, Rich Gannon, Randall Cunningham, Bernie Kosar, Boomer Esiason, Steve Young, Joe Montana...

I could go on and on...


Some of the best ever, there goes the 1st round theory!


Kind of funny that you could use the 1st round theory based on some of the drafts of the 80s and look at how many clunker 1st round QBs came out of the 90s. We're already anointing guys like Ryan, Bradford, Stafford, etc. as big time guys before they have achieved a thing.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:07 pm 
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Jammer, you talkin' to me? I agree with Rich's point that many good to great Qbs have been taken outside round 1. Thus disproving Phins Rock's theory that they can only be taken in round 1.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:29 pm 
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Dolfanrar wrote:
Jammer, you talkin' to me? I agree with Rich's point that many good to great Qbs have been taken outside round 1. Thus disproving Phins Rock's theory that they can only be taken in round 1.


I was actually supporting your argument. I was pointing out that in 1983 you saw the likes of Marino, Elway and Kelly, jumping to the conclusion that you needed a first round guy to succeed. Then in the 90s there were a ton of first round busts.

There is evidence to support both sides of the argument, but I agree with you guys that a good QB can be found anywhere in the draft. This manufactured idea that its 3 years or bust to determine if a QB will make it has prevented a lot of guys from probably reaching their potential. If it was applied in the 80s then everyone outside of Marino would have been a bust.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:47 pm 
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Just playing numbers here, we'll be bringing in a QB or 2 no matter what. So we'll see.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:21 pm 
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Dolfanrar wrote:
Jammer, you talkin' to me? I agree with Rich's point that many good to great Qbs have been taken outside round 1. Thus disproving Phins Rock's theory that they can only be taken in round 1.

I meant now a days.

And I wouldn't call Matt Schaub, Matt Cassel and some out the others mentioned true franchise QBs.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:12 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
I meant now a days.

And I wouldn't call Matt Schaub, Matt Cassel and some out the others mentioned true franchise QBs.


If a team locks you up to a long term contract and hands you the keys its safe to say you are a franchise QB. You may not be Manning, Brady or Rodgers, but you are still considered the franchise guy.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:57 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
I meant now a days.

And I wouldn't call Matt Schaub, Matt Cassel and some out the others mentioned true franchise QBs.


If a team locks you up to a long term contract and hands you the keys its safe to say you are a franchise QB. You may not be Manning, Brady or Rodgers, but you are still considered the franchise guy.


We'll agree to disagree on that. I don't see those guys as Super Bowl winning caliber QB's, which is what I mean by a true franchise QB.

But Rich, by what stretch of the imagination is David Garrard a franchise QB? lol. They've been looking to replace him for years.


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