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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:38 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
My previous point is blatantly obvious. You can win without top LT's, but you need a top QB. That said, Parcells must have thought that Henne was as good as Ryan, or at least that Ryan was not franchise QB material. If that's the case, fine. They made a poor evaluation. It happens.

But if they chose Long over Ryan if they thought highly of both, and went with Jake just because he was the better overall player, than you really have to question what the hell they were thinking, because honestly that's just stupid. I'd like to hear an explanation of why they went with Jake instead of Ryan.


They've already stated they thought Ryan, Henne and Flacco were equal. Henne had a first round grade for some teams and was strongly considered by Baltimore. They took Long because they didn't think Ryan at pick 1 brought more value than Henne/Flacco at pick 32, which is where they originally intended to grab their guy not realizing Merling would be available.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:46 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
My previous point is blatantly obvious. You can win without top LT's, but you need a top QB. That said, Parcells must have thought that Henne was as good as Ryan, or at least that Ryan was not franchise QB material. If that's the case, fine. They made a poor evaluation. It happens.

But if they chose Long over Ryan if they thought highly of both, and went with Jake just because he was the better overall player, than you really have to question what the hell they were thinking, because honestly that's just stupid. I'd like to hear an explanation of why they went with Jake instead of Ryan.


They've already stated they thought Ryan, Henne and Flacco were equal. Henne had a first round grade for some teams and was strongly considered by Baltimore. They took Long because they didn't think Ryan at pick 1 brought more value than Henne/Flacco at pick 32, which is where they originally intended to grab their guy not realizing Merling would be available.


The fact that they passed on Henne (a QB) for a 5 technique DE without another selection for 25 slots makes me question that. If they thought Henne was equal to Ryan/Flacco, why risk passing him up just because a 34 DE had good value at 32? Know what I mean?

It obviously ended up working out, but looking back they were VERY fortunate that he was still there. Way too big of a risk to pass him up at 32, especially when the talk was that they needed to trade up back into round 1 for him.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:52 pm 
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They also had John Beck whom they were willing to give some more time if they didn't get their guy in that draft. They had David Lee working with him like crazy.

As for Merling, I can't answer that. Parcells maybe thought he would be a huge difference maker on a D that needed to be completely redone.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:57 pm 
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jammer wrote:
They also had John Beck whom they were willing to give some more time if they didn't get their guy in that draft. They had David Lee working with him like crazy.

As for Merling, I can't answer that. Parcells maybe thought he would be a huge difference maker on a D that needed to be completely redone.


True, but then they kicked Beck to the curb like he was nothing...Didn't even give him a shot, and even if they hadn't gotten Pennington it didn't sound like they were willing to give him a chance.

If they had taken Henne at 32 than I think I'd agree that they obviously thought Henne was a first round guy, and at the same level as Matt. But regardless of how high they were on Merling, I don't think they'd pass up Henne if they thought he was legit for a 34 DE. Especially with the lack of respect they gave Beck afterwards.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
jammer wrote:
They also had John Beck whom they were willing to give some more time if they didn't get their guy in that draft. They had David Lee working with him like crazy.

As for Merling, I can't answer that. Parcells maybe thought he would be a huge difference maker on a D that needed to be completely redone.


True, but then they kicked Beck to the curb like he was nothing...Didn't even give him a shot.


Beck was awful. What happened to your eye test theory?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:01 pm 
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Iowafin wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
jammer wrote:
They also had John Beck whom they were willing to give some more time if they didn't get their guy in that draft. They had David Lee working with him like crazy.

As for Merling, I can't answer that. Parcells maybe thought he would be a huge difference maker on a D that needed to be completely redone.


True, but then they kicked Beck to the curb like he was nothing...Didn't even give him a shot.


Beck was awful. What happened to your eye test theory?


Didn't say I was against it. Just stating what happened.

I actually thought that Beck did OK given the circumstances in 2007. But from what I remember he was atrocious in the 08 off season.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:03 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Beck was awful. What happened to your eye test theory?


Didn't say I was against it. Just stating what happened.

I actually thought that Beck did OK given the circumstances in 2007..[/quote]

You just blew all your credibility there.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:09 pm 
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Iowafin wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Iowafin wrote:
Beck was awful. What happened to your eye test theory?


Didn't say I was against it. Just stating what happened.

I actually thought that Beck did OK given the circumstances in 2007..


You just blew all your credibility there.


His starting RB was Samkon Gado, and his number 1 WR Ted Ginn. Coach Cameron also apparently gave him no special attention or treatment that a rookie QB should get. He was playing for a winless team and didn't have a defense to back him up. Lol. What did you expect out of the poor guy?

I thought he played well against Cincy, and managed the game well against Philly. Can't remember any other game off the top of my head, but he had a couple games where he was OK.

I didn't see a franchise QB in there, but I don't think he was horrible given the circumstances.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:16 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
He was playing for a winless team and didn't have a defense to back him up. Lol. What did you expect out of the poor guy?


Catching the snap is a good start.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:17 pm 
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Or picking it up if you drop the snap.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:18 pm 
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Or being able to throw the ball forward.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:18 pm 
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That reminded me of the Buffalo game.


What a disaster.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:21 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
That reminded me of the Buffalo game.


What a disaster.


Yeah...eye test. Not an OK quarterback....a terrible one.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:50 pm 
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I think you guys are using hindsight only. Remember the state of the team in April 2008. We didn't just need a QB, we needed literally everything. We were transitioning the team from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and had some good RBs. That was about it. They had to build up an entire team from nearly scratch. Keep that in mind when you criticize the choice. Hindsight, maybe Ryan/Baker would have worked out better, who knows. Long certainly is not a disappointment and has proved himself worth his pick.

Now, I will say I do not think Henne is the man for years to come, but he is not a bust either. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt with a new, less inept OC.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:02 pm 
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Ski_Money wrote:
I think you guys are using hindsight only. Remember the state of the team in April 2008. We didn't just need a QB, we needed literally everything. We were transitioning the team from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and had some good RBs. That was about it. They had to build up an entire team from nearly scratch. Keep that in mind when you criticize the choice. Hindsight, maybe Ryan/Baker would have worked out better, who knows. Long certainly is not a disappointment and has proved himself worth his pick.

Now, I will say I do not think Henne is the man for years to come, but he is not a bust either. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt with a new, less inept OC.


Doesn't matter what they needed. Carolina also needs everything. Do they pass up a franchise QB because they have other needs? No. You get that guy and then you build around him.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 9:28 am 
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They came out and said David Lee and Dan Henning both wanted Chad Henne and in their opinion he was as good as Matt Ryan. That either says Henne was a first round talent or Ryan was a second round talent. Either way, they didn't think Matt Ryan justified a high selection.

Heck, Parcells and Ireland wanted Flacco but deferred to the experts of the position so what that tells me is that the organization wouldn't have drafted Ryan unless they traded way back and he was still on the board.


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