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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:31 am 
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Just saw this.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d828fea0e/article/vernon-vontae-davis-brother-charged-in-dc-murder?module=HP11_headline_stack


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:43 am 
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Uhm...wow...this 19 year old punk murdered an elderly 66 year old? Nothing but balls and integrity huh? I don't care as to whom this kid is related to, he deserves life.

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:36 am 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Uhm...wow...this 19 year old punk murdered an elderly 66 year old? Nothing but balls and integrity huh? I don't care as to whom this kid is related to, he deserves life.

Yep, if he's found guilty lock him up and throw away the key. It's a pretty big local story here around D.C. being that both Vontae and Vernon are from here, coupled with the fact that Vernon played here at Maryland, sad.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:30 am 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Uhm...wow...this 19 year old punk murdered an elderly 66 year old?


He was charged with murder, he hasn't been found guilty of it as of yet.

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:32 pm 
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Wow .... the "alleged" murder was committed with a hammer. Apparently the young Davis brother was found psychologically unfit for trial and sent to a psychiatric facility for 60 days ......

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -facility/

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:54 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Wow .... the "alleged" murder was committed with a hammer. Apparently the young Davis brother was found psychologically unfit for trial and sent to a psychiatric facility for 60 days ......

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -facility/


He has also been diagnosed with schizophrenia in the past, something that doesn't just go away. If true, it means these killings weren't committed out of maliciousness, but rather out of the incapability to be a normally functioning person.

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:10 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
Wow .... the "alleged" murder was committed with a hammer. Apparently the young Davis brother was found psychologically unfit for trial and sent to a psychiatric facility for 60 days ......

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -facility/


He has also been diagnosed with schizophrenia in the past, something that doesn't just go away. If true, it means these killings weren't committed out of maliciousness, but rather out of the incapability to be a normally functioning person.


Some people around here are unforgiving when it comes to mental illness, though (see Brandon Marshall)

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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:46 pm 
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Iowafin wrote:
Some people around here are unforgiving when it comes to mental illness, though (see Brandon Marshall)


I will defend my personal opinions on this subject as I am one of those being insinuated against.

I have full sympathy with a mental illness that they are not aware of or in control of their actions. I have no sympathy for designer disorders. To me they are nothing to be sympathetic about. If a person is aware of their actions, they have to be able to control them. It's called being an adult. Brandon Marshall doctor shopping to find someone, anyone to give him a disorder that will give him sympathy is borderline pathetic disorder to me.

There is a world of difference between someone diagnosed with a seriously disabling disorder and a supposed adult that holds a serious job who is masking his childish behaviour through a diagnosis that nobody had ever heard of before.


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:59 am 
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degs wrote:

There is a world of difference between someone diagnosed with a seriously disabling disorder and a supposed adult that holds a serious job who is masking his childish behaviour through a diagnosis that nobody had ever heard of before.


This just sums up the ignorance of your post. Just because YOU never heard of it doesn't mean squat. Do your research and find out what it is instead of spamming this site with your hate.

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:48 am 
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Why even bother Degs? I've learned to ignore some posts, it's not worth it.


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:27 pm 
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Borderline Personality Disorder is real though. So significant enough that it is only 1 of 2 things that can go on Axis 2 of a diagnosis or psychological report.

From my DSM 4-TR

Diagnostic criteria for 301.83 Borderline Personality Disorder
(1) frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.
Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

(2) a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

(3) identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self

(4) impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, Substance Abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).
Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

(5) recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

(6) affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

(7) chronic feelings of emptiness

(8) inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

(9) transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:01 pm 
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00xtremeninja wrote:
Borderline Personality Disorder is real though. So significant enough that it is only 1 of 2 things that can go on Axis 2 of a diagnosis or psychological report.

From my DSM 4-TR

Diagnostic criteria for 301.83 Borderline Personality Disorder
(1) frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.
Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

(2) a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

(3) identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self

(4) impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, Substance Abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).
Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

(5) recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

(6) affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

(7) chronic feelings of emptiness

(8) inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

(9) transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms


It's made up! Don't believe it! Marshall is garbage!

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:03 pm 
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00xtremeninja wrote:
Borderline Personality Disorder is real though. So significant enough that it is only 1 of 2 things that can go on Axis 2 of a diagnosis or psychological report.

From my DSM 4-TR

Diagnostic criteria for 301.83 Borderline Personality Disorder
(1) frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.
Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

(2) a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

(3) identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self

(4) impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, Substance Abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).
Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

(5) recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

(6) affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

(7) chronic feelings of emptiness

(8) inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

(9) transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms


And yet somehow those who live with this are able to handle normal lives, are aware of their actions and understand the levity of their actions.

That is why it is called a "personality disorder" and not a mental illness. A mental illness is a reason for a behaviour. Brandon Marshall made an announcement to provide an excuse for his.

I reiterate my original point: I have sympathy for those suffering from a mental illness. I have little or none for those who use a "personality disorder" as an excuse for their childlike behaviour.


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 5:16 pm 
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lol, do you work extensively with the BPD community? normal lives, hardly. aware of their actions? oh, if you could only sit and take some of the crisis calls from some people who have BPD like I have. That's the point of their illness, they aren't fully aware of their actions. Their brain is wired differently than ours and when they engage in these absurd attention seeking behaviors or playing games in interpersonal relationships, more often than not they are not aware they are doing it.

BPD is hardly "popular" or "trendy" diagnosis these days like Bipolar or ADD(HD) is/was. Those trendy diagnoses come more from a hot new medication on the market. The significant BPD symptoms can't really be treated with medications.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:32 am 
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I can see both sides of the argument. I think Brandon Marshall uses his disorder as a way to absolve himself of blame for his actions.

That being said, the chemicals in the brain are a difficult thing to understand. Why do women change during pregnancy and behave in ways they normally wouldn't? Why do so many soldiers return from war with PTSD? It is easy to say that people with these "designer" disorders should be more in control of themselves, but unless you're actually in their shoes, you don't know which ones are using it as an excuse and which ones really aren't aware of what they are doing 100% of the time.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:51 am 
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Iowafin wrote:

Some people around here are unforgiving when it comes to mental illness, though (see Brandon Marshall)


Yeah, these darn people, I mean so what the guys dead, the kid has a mental illness, lets hurry up and get him help so he can rejoin society.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:56 am 
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lets hurry up and get him help so he can rejoin society.

I take that as sarcasm...hopefully it is lmfao.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 7:42 am 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
lets hurry up and get him help so he can rejoin society.

I take that as sarcasm...hopefully it is lmfao.


Yeah just a bit.......

I dont take mental illness lightly, just find that it is used in situation for the wrong reasons.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:14 am 
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I have a friend who spent 3 years in jail for decisions he made as an undiagnosed, untreated sufferer of bipolar disorder. Yes, it's a popular diagnosis and is undoubtedly abused. It didn't shorten his sentence any, I can tell you that. I can also tell you that the dude was not himself in that period of his life. He did things he doesn't recall and was not in control.

Here's the point, though. He does not use that as an excuse. He accepts responsibility. And while his actions are not to be excused, they can be better understood with the diagnosis. Accountability is still there, but the level of understanding, even compassion for him is greater with the explanation.

That's my spin on all of this. No excuse, just an explanation.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:50 pm 
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We are talking about murder here, right?

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:18 pm 
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10acjed wrote:
Iowafin wrote:

Some people around here are unforgiving when it comes to mental illness, though (see Brandon Marshall)


Yeah, these darn people, I mean so what the guys dead, the kid has a mental illness, lets hurry up and get him help so he can rejoin society.


Look up, I think the point's going over your head.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:49 pm 
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Rich wrote:
I can see both sides of the argument. I think Brandon Marshall uses his disorder as a way to absolve himself of blame for his actions.


It's not just Brandon, but people like him, who use his issue as an excuse for all his childish behaior. They are the biggest reason why people like I require such a high burden of proof to get sympathy.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:41 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
We are talking about murder here, right?


Yes, and no one is saying, that if guilty, Davis should get a free pass because he is schizophrenic. Simply pointing out that he probably wasn't even aware what he was doing.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 6:22 pm 
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Iowafin wrote:

Look up, I think the point's going over your head.


Sorry, I have an affliction that prevents me from understanding anything

:fart:

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:47 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Simply pointing out that he probably wasn't even aware what he was doing.


Well, we don't exactly know that either just yet.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 4:49 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
Simply pointing out that he probably wasn't even aware what he was doing.


Well, we don't exactly know that either just yet.


Yes, we do. He was already diagnosed with schizophrenia. That isn't something that just goes away.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 11:55 am 
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Is schizophrenia just one thing? Kind of like you have it so you are not responsible and have no real idea of what you are doing or you don't have it and are therefore responsible?

Are their degrees of it? Milder forms and stronger forms? Different presenting markers or symptoms? I am no expert but I think there are different types and sub types with varying degrees of what might be termed impairment.

What type and or sub type the young man has and how it presents itself or presented itself in association with the crime he has been charged with I have not seen yet. Has anyone else?


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Quote:
Violence
Individuals with severe mental illness including schizophrenia are at a significantly greater risk of being victims of both violent and non violent crime.[132] On the other hand, schizophrenia has sometimes been associated with a higher rate of violent acts, although this is primarily due to higher rates of drug use.[133] Rates of homicide linked to psychosis are similar to those linked to substance misuse, and parallel the overall rate in a region.[134] What role schizophrenia has on violence independent of drug misuse is controversial, but certain aspects of individual histories or mental states may be factors.[135]
Media coverage relating to schizophrenia tends to revolve around rare but unusual acts of violence. Furthermore, in a large, representative sample from a 1999 study, 12.8% of Americans believed that individuals with schizophrenia were "very likely" to do something violent against others, and 48.1% said that they were "somewhat likely" to. Over 74% said that people with schizophrenia were either "not very able" or "not able at all" to make decisions concerning their treatment, and 70.2% said the same of money management decisions.[136] The perception of individuals with psychosis as violent has more than doubled in prevalence since the 1950s, according to one meta-analysis.[137]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophre ... e_note-134


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:34 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
Is schizophrenia just one thing? Kind of like you have it so you are not responsible and have no real idea of what you are doing or you don't have it and are therefore responsible?

Are their degrees of it? Milder forms and stronger forms? Different presenting markers or symptoms? I am no expert but I think there are different types and sub types with varying degrees of what might be termed impairment.

What type and or sub type the young man has and how it presents itself or presented itself in association with the crime he has been charged with I have not seen yet. Has anyone else?


This may answer your questions, more reliable than Wikipedia:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001925/

Just one thing to note, being schizophrenic increases your chances for developing substance abuse problems.

In a nutshell:

Schizophrenia is a complex mental disorder that makes it difficult to:

•Tell the difference between real and unreal experiences

•Think logically

•Have normal emotional responses,

•Behave normally in social situations

Expectations (prognosis)
The outlook for a person with schizophrenia is difficult to predict. Most of the time, symptoms improve with medication. However, others may have difficulty functioning and are at risk for repeated episodes, especially during the early stages of the illness.

People with schizophrenia may need supported housing, job training, and other community support programs. People with the most severe forms of this disorder may not be able to live alone. Group homes or other long-term, structured places to live may be needed.

Symptoms will return if a person with schizophrenia does not take their medication.

Complications
Having schizophrenia increases your risk for:

•Developing a problem with alcohol or drugs: This is called a substance abuse problem. Using alcohol or other drugs increases the chances your symptoms will return.

•Physical illness: People with schizophrenia may become physically sick, because of an inactive lifestyle and side effects from medication. A physical illness may not be detected because of poor access to medical care and difficulties talking to health care providers.

•Suicide

Calling your health care provider
Call your health care provider if:

•Voices are telling you to hurt yourself or others.

•You feel the urge to hurt yourself or others.

•You are feeling hopeless or overwhelmed.

•You are seeing things that aren't really there.

•You feel you cannot leave the house.

•You are unable to care for yourself.

Prevention
There is no known way to prevent schizophrenia.

Symptoms can be prevented by taking medication. You should take your medication exactly as your doctor told you to. Symptoms will return if you stop taking your medication.

Always talk to your doctor if you are thinking about changing or stopping your medications. See your doctor or therapist regularly.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:40 am 
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So from all of that we know he probably didnt know what he was doing?


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:38 am 
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AQNOR wrote:
So from all of that we know he probably didnt know what he was doing?


There may have been a cute little blond girl telling him to hit these people in the head with hammers because they were evil aliens getting ready to invade Earth.

A guy going around trying to kill tourists with hammers is not in his right mind, especially if there is no evidence that he was doing it because he needed money and was trying to steal it from them.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:04 am 
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Watch A Beautiful Mind for an entertaining way to learn about schizophrenia.

This is a very hard subject. There are cases of both mental illness leading to incident and incidents where mental illness is used as an excuse to get out of accountability for your actions.

I have no personal experience dealing with someone who has schizophrenia, but I have worked with people who have mental illness (family and professionally) and I can testify that some of their actions are out of their control. Unfortunately I've also witnessed cases where it is used fraudulently.

Only thing you can do is let the facts play out and judge each case individually.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:45 am 
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jammer wrote:
Watch A Beautiful Mind for an entertaining way to learn about schizophrenia.

This is a very hard subject. There are cases of both mental illness leading to incident and incidents where mental illness is used as an excuse to get out of accountability for your actions.

I have no personal experience dealing with someone who has schizophrenia, but I have worked with people who have mental illness (family and professionally) and I can testify that some of their actions are out of their control. Unfortunately I've also witnessed cases where it is used fraudulently.

Only thing you can do is let the facts play out and judge each case individually.


Take it from me, my cousin is a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic ..... it's bizarre to watch. For the last 10-15 years he's been obsessed with this idea that his father(my uncle) is out to destroy his life. I remember one time on Facebook I mentioned the word "rage" in a post I made and even though the post was not about him, it sent him flying off the handle. There are times though when he seems perfectly fine so it's what makes the situation so strange.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:54 am 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Take it from me, my cousin is a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic ..... it's bizarre to watch. For the last 10-15 years he's been obsessed with this idea that his father(my uncle) is out to destroy his life. I remember one time on Facebook I mentioned the word "rage" in a post I made and even though the post was not about him, it sent him flying off the handle. There are times though when he seems perfectly fine so it's what makes the situation so strange.


Your post actually just reminded me that my wife has a cousin who has the same condition. Unfortunately his situation is worse. I don't think he was diagnosed until a few years back and before anyone could intervene he ran away from the college he was attending and has been missing for 3 years. I guess he believed people were after him so he changed his name and took off. I never met him but from what I understood he was pretty normal til that point.


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