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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:51 pm 
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We all agree that Cleveland was terrible offensively last year, correct? So naturally, production last year for the Browns receivers will be terrible.


Maybe Cleveland's offense was terrible because of their receivers. They miss Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow Jr.

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So tell me, how does using their stats from other teams and other seasons NOT help my argument?


Because players can decline from year to year or flourish in one system but fail in another.

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Furrey is capable of catching 98 passes and 6 TD's in a season.


Yeah, four years ago.

Daunte Culpepper is capable of a 39 TD season as well...

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Hartline is pretty good, no? That's why he was playing flanker for the second half of the season, NOT as a 3rd or 4th receiver as you state. Massaquoi's numbers are comparable even though he was on a crappy team.


Hartline started TWO games. Massaquoi started EVELEN.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:44 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Quote:
We all agree that Cleveland was terrible offensively last year, correct? So naturally, production last year for the Browns receivers will be terrible.


Maybe Cleveland's offense was terrible because of their receivers. They miss Braylon Edwards and Kellen Winslow Jr.

Quote:
So tell me, how does using their stats from other teams and other seasons NOT help my argument?


Because players can decline from year to year or flourish in one system but fail in another.

Quote:
Furrey is capable of catching 98 passes and 6 TD's in a season.


Yeah, four years ago.

Daunte Culpepper is capable of a 39 TD season as well...

Quote:
Hartline is pretty good, no? That's why he was playing flanker for the second half of the season, NOT as a 3rd or 4th receiver as you state. Massaquoi's numbers are comparable even though he was on a crappy team.


Hartline started TWO games. Massaquoi started EVELEN.


I don't know what EVELEN is, but I don't know what difference it makes who starts how many games. Why don't you go break down the tape and see how many snaps they got in. Then break down how many of those snaps were passing plays. Then look to see if they were open, and the quarterback missed him.
Culpepper could throw 39 TD passes before he wreck up his knee. Furrey hasn't had any such injury. You're really reaching here, Rich.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:14 pm 
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Iowafin wrote:
but I don't know what difference it makes who starts how many games. Why don't you go break down the tape and see how many snaps they got in.


Sure, send me a copy.

If you don't think it makes a difference that one guy was the #1 receiver while the other guy was a rotational player, then there is no point in continuing the discussion with you.

Quote:
Culpepper could throw 39 TD passes before he wreck up his knee. Furrey hasn't had any such injury. You're really reaching here, Rich.


You're citing numbers a guy put up 4 years ago and has not come close to matching since, but I'm reaching?

No I'm simply demonstrating how silly your argument is by being equally silly.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:22 pm 
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Rich wrote:
Iowafin wrote:
but I don't know what difference it makes who starts how many games. Why don't you go break down the tape and see how many snaps they got in.


Sure, send me a copy.

If you don't think it makes a difference that one guy was the #1 receiver while the other guy was a rotational player, then there is no point in continuing the discussion with you.

Quote:
Culpepper could throw 39 TD passes before he wreck up his knee. Furrey hasn't had any such injury. You're really reaching here, Rich.


You're citing numbers a guy put up 4 years ago and has not come close to matching since, but I'm reaching?

No I'm simply demonstrating how silly your argument is by being equally silly.


No, the following year he had 61 grabs with Detroit. After that, he got hurt, then wound up in Cleveland's mess of an offense.
That's not even close to your "silly" argument about Culpepper was 6 yeas ago, and he got severely injured and hasn't done ANYTHING since.
So yes, you're reaching.
As for Massaquoi versus Hartline, again, there is a lot contingent upon who was throwing the passes, and how effective the OLine is. If the quarterback has no time to throw it, of course he's not going to get it to Massaquoi, but because his stats reflect that, he's suddenly less of a receiver?
Child, please.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:19 pm 
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Rich wrote:

Ok so if you don't view Cribbs as the answer at receiver, why bring him into a conversation that involves our wide receiver group?


I only brought him into the equation when you mentioned Cleveland's receivers. All I did was point out that however miniscule his role may be, most consider him to have some role in the receiving corps. Does he play the role of a true X or Y receiver? ...No, but he's an extremely talented football player, and therefore brings some talent, however small, to Cleveland's receiving corps.

Rich wrote:
And we do not have a need for a triggerman in the Wildcat. And even if we did, that formation will be phased out while Henne continues to cement himself as the quarterback of the future and the leader of this team. If he takes the next step, I doubt you see him being pulled off the field 6-10 times a game or even 2-3 times a game to run the Wildcat.


No where am I suggesting that we need him or any other replacement to run the wildcat in the future if we're able to retain Ronnie and choose to continue use of the formation. Again, that only came up to point out that the guy is obviously multi-talented.

Rich wrote:
I am 100% all for bringing in Cribbs to return kicks and punts. He is phenomenal in that capacity.

But that is not what we are discussing here.


Agreed, nor is it what I'm trying to discuss. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, this is supposed to be a thread about Dez Bryant that has now run way off track. Did I contribute to bringing it off track? ...Yes. But honestly I have no desire to perpetuate this debate with you further. You have your opinion, I have mine, and I'm able to respect both without beating this topic further into the ground. We've had several debates like this over the last +/-5 years when you started coming to this site, and while not all of your debates with members here remain civil, somehow you and I have always found a way to keep it civil when we disagree... for what it's worth I'd like to keep it that way. You really have nothing to gain from trying to change my mind, so what's the point? Sometimes the most honorable part of valor is the ability to know when to let go even when you don't want to. Honestly, part of the reason my participation in this site has declined over the last few years is because the recent trend of bickering quickly turns these threads from fun to boring or aggravating. Big Dave has built a beautiful site and you and I both know the amount of effort he's dedicated. Hopefully you can agree with me that if we don't owe it to each other, then we at least owe it to Dave to not always argue and at least keep the tone around here somewhat fun.

If you can't tell, despite my aggravation I'm trying to offer an olive branch here, Rich.
I propose we agree to disagree, and quash this thing like gentlemen before it turns ugly.
It's not like either of us are Filth-Jets-fans, so lets not bother getting heated about some unrealistic scenario or comparison when we really both want the same thing at the end of the day.... a better Dolphins team, one way or another.

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