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 Notes on Martin and Long 
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Post Notes on Martin and Long
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Even though Jonathan Martin showed promise, no NFL tackle allowed more quarterback hurries than Martin’s 47. And please don’t suggest that the Dolphins’ play at left tackle didn’t suffer without Long.Long allowed four sacks and 10 hurries in 11-plus games. Martin allowed three sacks and 17 hurries in just under five games at left tackle, and Pro Football Focus graded Martin’s work clearly lower than Long’s. So Miami will make another attempt to keep Long, though not at the dollar figure he ideally wants.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-b ... rylink=cpy

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
I guess I'm confused at what people want the solution to be. They don't want Long to walk but they don't want to pay him. Anyone who thinks he isn't getting good dollars on the free agent market is nuts.

Then if a quality OT is BPA at the 12th pick people will go nuts because he's not a playmaker. Well what if he gives you something between what Long is now and what Long was in 2009 for a fraction of the price?

Everything has a price and people who think Long is taking a home town discount have another thing coming.


Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:19 pm
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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
If Vollmer hits the market, I love him. I always thought he was better on the left side for the Patriots then he was on the right. I'd rather give him money than Jake.


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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Phins Rock wrote:
If Vollmer hits the market, I love him. I always thought he was better on the left side for the Patriots then he was on the right. I'd rather give him money than Jake.


He's injured a lot. If you sign him you better have a contingency plan.


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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
And he wont get away with holding as much as he did for the Patsies.

I still would'nt be surprised to see Jake get tagged.... It's a better option than a long term deal at this point


Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:58 pm
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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
jammer wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
If Vollmer hits the market, I love him. I always thought he was better on the left side for the Patriots then he was on the right. I'd rather give him money than Jake.


He's injured a lot. If you sign him you better have a contingency plan.


The only reason the Patsies let him walk is if they are concerned about him always being injured.

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Big Dave wrote:
jammer wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
If Vollmer hits the market, I love him. I always thought he was better on the left side for the Patriots then he was on the right. I'd rather give him money than Jake.


He's injured a lot. If you sign him you better have a contingency plan.


The only reason the Patsies let him walk is if they are concerned about him always being injured.


I'd be very concerned about signing someone the Pats let walk away.

When healthy Vollmer and Solder have done a nice job and the Pats ground game is the best its been in a few years. I'd be surprised if he hits the market.


Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:21 pm
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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Rock Sexton wrote:
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Even though Jonathan Martin showed promise, no NFL tackle allowed more quarterback hurries than Martin’s 47. And please don’t suggest that the Dolphins’ play at left tackle didn’t suffer without Long.Long allowed four sacks and 10 hurries in 11-plus games. Martin allowed three sacks and 17 hurries in just under five games at left tackle, and Pro Football Focus graded Martin’s work clearly lower than Long’s. So Miami will make another attempt to keep Long, though not at the dollar figure he ideally wants.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-b ... rylink=cpy


Where's WK13 with his annointment of Martin as the starting LT?

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Just let him walk. I don't care what the price. The only thing you can count on are declining levels of play and more missed games. Why sign that at all? We should have traded him after the 2011 season.


Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:45 pm
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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
The Jake Long decision is going to be a big move. I have no issue with bringing Jake back, but not at Joe Thomas money. His health has been in decline the last 2 years, and with it, his play.

That said, the times I saw Jonathan Martin play, I saw a kid that really needs to get much stronger in the upper body. He consistently get's bull rushed, and that cannot happen.

Bringing in a kid like Vollmer that can't stay healthy does not make any sense.

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Martin can get it done. He needs to bulk up and he needs experience. Long is not worth big money. Get him at a reasonable price or let him go. Garner was adequate at RT. Bring in a veteran OT for depth....

This team needs play makers on offense, WR's. We also need a pass rusher to pair with Wake and at least one more CB. We have spent plenty of picks, high picks, on offensive line.

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Martin can get it done. He needs to bulk up and he needs experience. Long is not worth big money. Get him at a reasonable price or let him go. Garner was adequate at RT. Bring in a veteran OT for depth....

This team needs play makers on offense, WR's. We also need a pass rusher to pair with Wake and at least one more CB. We have spent plenty of picks, high picks, on offensive line.


I think you need to realize that if the Dolphins DON'T protect Ryan Tannehill, all those darn playmakers are useless. Did you see the New England game?

The Dolphins need to get the OL done and done right.

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Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:57 pm
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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
The Dolphins have been spending big money and high picks for years on the offensive line. The staff either can't select the right players, or can't coach them. The team can't ignore other phases of the game year after year....it is time to get play makers. In fact, the time to do that was when they moved a pro bowl receiver for lower picks than they gave for him.

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
The Dolphins have been spending big money and high picks for years on the offensive line. The staff either can't select the right players, or can't coach them. The team can't ignore other phases of the game year after year....it is time to get play makers. In fact, the time to do that was when they moved a pro bowl receiver for lower picks than they gave for him.


I agree with you that the Dolphins need playmakers. I am very much a proponent of the Dolphins going hard after either Mike Wallace or Greg Jennings, or BOTH.

And I certainly agree that the Dolphins have tried and tried to get the OL done and have failed miserably. Still does not take away from the fact that the Dolphins NEED to get the OL done, and done right.

The Dolphins have the ability to re-negotiate some contracts to create even more cap room, and the should and I believe will do this.

I agree on the playmakers, but if you don't win the game in the trenches, the playmakers don't mean a thing.

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Vollmer can't stay heathy? He only missed time in 2011 because of injuries, but this year started 15 games and despite the back issue PFF rated him as the 4th best RT in the league.

The dude is a stud. Easily a top 5 RT or LT in the game, in my opinion.


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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
phinsfansc wrote:
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Martin can get it done. He needs to bulk up and he needs experience. Long is not worth big money. Get him at a reasonable price or let him go. Garner was adequate at RT. Bring in a veteran OT for depth....

This team needs play makers on offense, WR's. We also need a pass rusher to pair with Wake and at least one more CB. We have spent plenty of picks, high picks, on offensive line.


I think you need to realize that if the Dolphins DON'T protect Ryan Tannehill, all those darn playmakers are useless. Did you see the New England game?

The Dolphins need to get the OL done and done right.


:yay: I agree, Even though Miami has spent tons of money and early draft picks to fix the line it still needs a lot of work. Miami can't run the ball consistently and was terrible in protecting Tannehill against the better NFL teams pass rushers.

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Kev1321 wrote:
And he wont get away with holding as much as he did for the Patsies.

I still would'nt be surprised to see Jake get tagged.... It's a better option than a long term deal at this point


He's not getting tagged at $15.4 Mil.


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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Rich wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
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Even though Jonathan Martin showed promise, no NFL tackle allowed more quarterback hurries than Martin’s 47. And please don’t suggest that the Dolphins’ play at left tackle didn’t suffer without Long.Long allowed four sacks and 10 hurries in 11-plus games. Martin allowed three sacks and 17 hurries in just under five games at left tackle, and Pro Football Focus graded Martin’s work clearly lower than Long’s. So Miami will make another attempt to keep Long, though not at the dollar figure he ideally wants.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-b ... rylink=cpy


Where's WK13 with his annointment of Martin as the starting LT?


The kid is obviously a step back from Long (a veteran and former All-Pro) right now, but that doesn't mean he's a complete chump. Give the kid a full offseason to put on some muscle and give him a shot. If he can't handle it next year, and he continues to struggle, we can always look to replace him in the following years draft. From what I saw he struggled a bit, but he was far from a liability. I think a full offseason practicing as the left tackle would really benefit this kid.


Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:08 pm
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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
bobby0112 wrote:
phinsfansc wrote:
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Martin can get it done. He needs to bulk up and he needs experience. Long is not worth big money. Get him at a reasonable price or let him go. Garner was adequate at RT. Bring in a veteran OT for depth....

This team needs play makers on offense, WR's. We also need a pass rusher to pair with Wake and at least one more CB. We have spent plenty of picks, high picks, on offensive line.


I think you need to realize that if the Dolphins DON'T protect Ryan Tannehill, all those darn playmakers are useless. Did you see the New England game?

The Dolphins need to get the OL done and done right.


:yay: I agree, Even though Miami has spent tons of money and early draft picks to fix the line it still needs a lot of work. Miami can't run the ball consistently and was terrible in protecting Tannehill against the better NFL teams pass rushers.


That has been Miami's approach for years......and part of the reason the team is mediocre at best.

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
wkloiber13 wrote:
Give the kid a full offseason to put on some muscle and give him a shot.


My question is... why wasn't he adding this muscle in college? Every other offensive lineman does or at the very least is benching a good number of reps at 225 lbs.

He came out as a senior right? So he had four years to work on his upper body and unless his coaches were negligent, I am sure they made him do the same exercises as every other lineman on the team. Is there a pattern for lineman from Standford who lack upper body strength?

My concern is if he doesn't have the upper body strength now, is there a ceiling on how strong his upper body can get?

Every body has a limit for what it can do.

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
My question is... why wasn't he adding this muscle in college?

Lazy? Did he bench at the combine?


Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:21 am
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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Makchell wrote:
My question is... why wasn't he adding this muscle in college?

Lazy? Did he bench at the combine?


20 reps at 225.

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Rock Sexton wrote:
Makchell wrote:
My question is... why wasn't he adding this muscle in college?

Lazy? Did he bench at the combine?


20 reps at 225.


Didn't Brady Quinn do 20 something?

Vontae Davis put it up 25 times.


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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
20 reps at 225.

Are you kidding me? I can do that 8-10 times. 225 is the bar and two plates on each side.


Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:42 pm
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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Phins Rock wrote:
Didn't Brady Quinn do 20 something?

Vontae Davis put it up 25 times.


Brady Quinn did 24 reps.

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Makchell wrote:
20 reps at 225.

Are you kidding me? I can do that 8-10 times. 225 is the bar and two plates on each side.


Yep, I was doing 285 lbs 15 times when I was training hard.

Now I can lay on the bench and sleep, but I digress.

Sometimes it is easier for a guy with shorter arms to bench than a guy with longers arms, though.

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Sometimes it is easier for a guy with shorter arms to bench than a guy with longers arms, though.

My football coach told me that back in the day. 285 was my max about 5 years ago until I hurt my shoulder, I guess I'll blame it on my arms being long...lol. I just did 8 reps at 225 yesterday with a guy in the gym. He then added two more 25s, I spotted him, but didn't want to try to put it up. 37 yrs old and I think I'm doing Ok.


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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Rich wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
Give the kid a full offseason to put on some muscle and give him a shot.


My question is... why wasn't he adding this muscle in college? Every other offensive lineman does or at the very least is benching a good number of reps at 225 lbs.

He came out as a senior right? So he had four years to work on his upper body and unless his coaches were negligent, I am sure they made him do the same exercises as every other lineman on the team. Is there a pattern for lineman from Standford who lack upper body strength?

My concern is if he doesn't have the upper body strength now, is there a ceiling on how strong his upper body can get?

Every body has a limit for what it can do.


He had another season of eligibility in college, but chose to come out anyway. The kid was solid when you turned on the film, but most scouts said he would have benefitted from staying in school and putting on some muscle. They were 100% correct. The kid looked great from a technique standpoint but he lacked some of the strength to handle the bigger/stronger passrushers.

I want to see how this kid plays after a second full off-season of strength training combined with an entire off-season playing on the left side. I think he'll play much better next year, and like I said before, if he struggles next year we can always replace him the following year.

I seriously doubt the kid has hit his physical limit only one season removed from college.


Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:12 pm
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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Rock Sexton wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Didn't Brady Quinn do 20 something?

Vontae Davis put it up 25 times.


Brady Quinn did 24 reps.


So did Ryan Clady and he's one of the best LTs in the NFL. What's your point? Do you seriously think a muscular endurance test is the ultimate test of a football players strength? Vernon Gholston put up 37 reps, is he even in the league anymore?


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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
wkloiber13 wrote:
So did Ryan Clady and he's one of the best LTs in the NFL. What's your point? Do you seriously think a muscular endurance test is the ultimate test of a football players strength? Vernon Gholston put up 37 reps, is he even in the league anymore?


Ryan Clady ISN'T tops in the league in QB hurries and certainly hasn't been physically abused like Martin, particularly on bull rushes. Clady also topped 635lbs squatting. The funny thing about Martin's bench at the combine is he looked absolutely worn out by 15.

Martin is weak. Stop making excuses. It shows up on the film and is precisely why he was labeled a finesse blocker before entering the draft. He was able to get away with it in college because of the level of competition he was facing and a QB by the name of Luck making his lineman look good most of the time.

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Mak and Rich should go trick or treating together next year as Hanz and Franz


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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Have to say I'm coming around a bit on the idea of re-signing Long. Does he get Joe Thomas money? Not in Miami, but it doesn't mean they don't have to overpay a little. GMs have their jobs for a reason, and if us fans can see declining play and injuries piling up, they can too. He might be easier to re-sign than we think.


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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
jammer wrote:
Have to say I'm coming around a bit on the idea of re-signing Long. Does he get Joe Thomas money? Not in Miami, but it doesn't mean they don't have to overpay a little. GMs have their jobs for a reason, and if us fans can see declining play and injuries piling up, they can too. He might be easier to re-sign than we think.


That's what I have been saying. I would not mind seeing Jake back, but it sure can't be at Joe Thomas money. The past 2 years, his injury history and play has not been up to what use to be an All-Pro OLT. He is a top 15 OLT right now, but I fear that Tom Condom will want Thomas money.

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
phinsfansc wrote:
jammer wrote:
Have to say I'm coming around a bit on the idea of re-signing Long. Does he get Joe Thomas money? Not in Miami, but it doesn't mean they don't have to overpay a little. GMs have their jobs for a reason, and if us fans can see declining play and injuries piling up, they can too. He might be easier to re-sign than we think.


That's what I have been saying. I would not mind seeing Jake back, but it sure can't be at Joe Thomas money. The past 2 years, his injury history and play has not been up to what use to be an All-Pro OLT. He is a top 15 OLT right now, but I fear that Tom Condom will want Thomas money.


I don't know their cap situation but SD might be a team that throws stupid money at him. Indy also has a ton of cap room and needs serious o-line help. Its possible he gets a ridiculous contract, but do we have any examples of a declining o-line guy getting a record deal?


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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Mak and Rich should go trick or treating together next year as Hanz and Franz

:)


Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:21 am
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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Rock Sexton wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
So did Ryan Clady and he's one of the best LTs in the NFL. What's your point? Do you seriously think a muscular endurance test is the ultimate test of a football players strength? Vernon Gholston put up 37 reps, is he even in the league anymore?


Ryan Clady ISN'T tops in the league in QB hurries and certainly hasn't been physically abused like Martin, particularly on bull rushes. Clady also topped 635lbs squatting. The funny thing about Martin's bench at the combine is he looked absolutely worn out by 15.

Martin is weak. Stop making excuses. It shows up on the film and is precisely why he was labeled a finesse blocker before entering the draft. He was able to get away with it in college because of the level of competition he was facing and a QB by the name of Luck making his lineman look good most of the time.


I think Martin is going to get a shot to play left tackle next season. Our staff likes him and I think he'll be sticking around. Did he struggle this year, yes he did. But at least they were hurries instead of sacks and knockdowns. I'm going to judge him after he's had a full offseason of work at the left tackle spot. His issues aren't technique issues, they're physical and mental issues. Once the kid has had a full offseason to work on his weaknesses, I think he'll be capable of handling the job full time. He's a smart guy, he knows what he needs to do in order to raise his game. I think he can do it.


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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
jammer wrote:
I don't know their cap situation but SD might be a team that throws stupid money at him. Indy also has a ton of cap room and needs serious o-line help. Its possible he gets a ridiculous contract, but do we have any examples of a declining o-line guy getting a record deal?


The more I think about it, the more I think somebody will throw big money at him.

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Post Re: Notes on Martin and Long
Rock Sexton wrote:
jammer wrote:
I don't know their cap situation but SD might be a team that throws stupid money at him. Indy also has a ton of cap room and needs serious o-line help. Its possible he gets a ridiculous contract, but do we have any examples of a declining o-line guy getting a record deal?


The more I think about it, the more I think somebody will throw big money at him.


I agree. As long as he's given a clean bill of health by team doctors, he's still a Pro Bowl caliber left tackle when healthy. Somebody is going to offer this guy a $10M+ deal. Just think about a team like the Eagles, Bears, or Lions. They all need serious o-line help to protect their quarterbacks.


Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:26 am
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