View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:59 am



Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] 
 Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith? 

Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
Yes, they will franchise Sean Smith in a "prove me" year. 27%  27%  [ 4 ]
No, they will let him walk, and replace him with a FA. 67%  67%  [ 10 ]
No, they will sign him to a long term contract. 7%  7%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 15

 Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith? 
Author Message
Online
Phinfever Owner/Admin
Phinfever Owner/Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 8939
Location: Raleigh, NC
 Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
What do you think the Dolphins will do? Keep in mind that the Dolphins overpaid Paul Soliai in 2010 big time by franchising him at $12 million making him one of the 5 highest paid DTs at that time in a 1-time "prove me" deal.


Miami Herald vs Palm Beach Post wrote:
The Herald and the Palm Beach Post have been in complete disagreement over this issue for the entire offseason. The Post reported earlier on Monday that Smith was "preparing" for the tag, but "rooting strongly against it." Armando Salguero of the Miami Herald insists the Dolphins will not use the franchise tag on free agent CB Sean Smith.Teams could start tagging players on Monday, and they can do so all the way up until March 4.


http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/50851354/ ... ayer_news/

_________________
PHINFEVER FACEBOOK - JOIN US!

Image


Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:30 am
Profile WWW
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21592
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
I think they wind up tagging him just so they don't lose him in free agency for nothing.

They can tag him and then either trade him or extend him.

There is also the possibility that they can withdraw the tag, but I believe that only happens if he doesn't sign it. He would then become an unrestricted free agent.

I think the Dolphins are willing to tag him and then trade him for a pick as long as it is 2nd round or higher, if they can't reach an extension.

_________________
Image


Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:59 am
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator, Design Admin
Phinfever Global Moderator, Design Admin

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:24 am
Posts: 3875
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
Rich wrote:
I think they wind up tagging him just so they don't lose him in free agency for nothing.

They can tag him and then either trade him or extend him.

There is also the possibility that they can withdraw the tag, but I believe that only happens if he doesn't sign it. He would then become an unrestricted free agent.

I think the Dolphins are willing to tag him and then trade him for a pick as long as it is 2nd round or higher, if they can't reach an extension.


Might as well right, what do we have to lose? If we can't deal him we have the cap to keep him for the year... win win.


Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:15 am
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21592
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
Not a win win, because he will take up a huge chunk of cap space that could be invested on other players for longer term deals.

If the Dolphins franchise him and he signs the tender, we're stuck with a $10 million cap hit. And that is the risk as Smith is not worth $10 million.

_________________
Image


Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:19 am
Profile
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 5839
Location: Topsfield, MA
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
Rich wrote:
Not a win win, because he will take up a huge chunk of cap space that could be invested on other players for longer term deals.

If the Dolphins franchise him and he signs the tender, we're stuck with a $10 million cap hit. And that is the risk as Smith is not worth $10 million.


That would certanly impact what Miami can do in FA, especially if they bring back Hartline, Clemons and Fasano as well.

Overpaying Smith is one thing, but I'd have a hard team seeing another team deal a high pick and then commit to a big deal. Is Spielman on the other end of this?


Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:34 am
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7532
Location: Massachusetts
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
They have plenty of cap room, to where the 1 year investment isn't a big deal.

I think they tag him. They can't afford to lose Sean this Off Season.


Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:09 am
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21592
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
Phins Rock wrote:
They can't afford to lose Sean this Off Season.


They can't afford to lose the player that led the NFL in combined first downs/touchdowns given up?

I'm not so sure about that. Outside of two pretty good games against A.J. Green and Larry Fitzgerald, Smith was not that good of a corner for the Dolphins. You started to see glimpses early in the season, but as the year went on, his play got worse and worse.

I think we can do better for cheaper.

That being said, if they feel the market overvalues Smith, it makes sense to take a risk with the tag.

_________________
Image


Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:24 am
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator, Design Admin
Phinfever Global Moderator, Design Admin

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:24 am
Posts: 3875
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
46 million in cap space and have to spend what, 89% when all is said and done?

I really don't see the 10m cap hit affecting us that much... still leaves 36 million for rookies, who are all scaled anyways, and any free agents... as well as signing long term deals, which we all know they can just give a bigger signing bonus and lessen the cap hit for the year if they needed to.


Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:46 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21592
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
IamPZ wrote:
46 million in cap space and have to spend what, 89% when all is said and done?

I really don't see the 10m cap hit affecting us that much... still leaves 36 million for rookies, who are all scaled anyways, and any free agents... as well as signing long term deals, which we all know they can just give a bigger signing bonus and lessen the cap hit for the year if they needed to.


With all the holes we have to fill:

1. Even with resigning Smith, we still need to address cornerback because we are weak at that position, so we'll be investing $10 million in a player who even with him on the roster we have a huge hole

2. A pass rusher opposite Wake

3. A couple of wide receivers, maybe even a tight end

4. An offensive line full of holes

Plus all the holes created by free agents

1. A starting free safety

2. Wide receiver

3. Left (or right) tackle

4. Defensive tackle

You've just reduced the amount of space you have to address this multitude of needs by 25% to sign a player who isn't that good to begin with.

Franchising Paul Soliai made a lot of sense because he WAS (and still is) the run defense. Without Soliai, the run defense suffers considerably.

With Sean Smith, the pass defense already sucks, so does it really suffer that much?

I think they'll tag him because they might feel they can then turn around and trade him or extend him for less than he wants, but it could turn out to be a very wasteful move in an offseason in which we have a ton of needs and are primed to address all of them.

Cap space gets taken up quickly when you start resigning your own free agents and bringing in new ones.

Not to mention, yes we can use a signing bonus to spread out the hit, but contracts can't be backloaded as much as they used to be either.

_________________
Image


Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:17 pm
Profile
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:26 pm
Posts: 1857
Location: Delray Beach, Florida
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
Phins Rock wrote:
They have plenty of cap room, to where the 1 year investment isn't a big deal.

I think they tag him. They can't afford to lose Sean this Off Season.



I do not understand some of your fascinations with this guy. I hear constantly about his "physical tools" and that one argument is growing extremely tired. You holler for upside, yet he is entering his 5th season, wouldn't you think he would have hit his prime LAST season? News flash, there is no upside to a CB who has several years of experience with 5 INTs in 65 career games. He isn't a rookie with one down season, it's a consistent performance of overwhelming mediocrity with this guy. Absolutely nothing screams shut down corner/ball hawk about him, it's the polar opposite. . I have seen Randy Starks ON THE LINE make more impact on the ball than Smith.

There is no way I let this guy eat up anywhere near $10m of the cap space which is so essential in building up the team into a perennial contender. My means of replacing him? Either trade up for Miller in swapping our 1st round pick into the top 6-8 while trading 3a (I would push hard for 3a, but may consider a 2nd rounder for Milliner), draft Desmond Trufant with a 2nd, or draft either Trufant OR Milliner while signing a Derek Cox in free agency. I wish luck to Smith where ever he goes, but he is just out of his darn mind in self-valuing himself. It's ludicrous.

_________________
Image


Last edited by AFCMiamiEast on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:36 pm
Profile
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!

Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 6291
Location: Lancaster, PA
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
Let him walk. We can get a better corner for less money.


Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:39 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21592
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
On second thought, I think they let him walk.

Randy Starks makes more sense.

Smaller cap number, much bigger impact.

_________________
Image


Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:54 pm
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7532
Location: Massachusetts
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
They have plenty of cap room, to where the 1 year investment isn't a big deal.

I think they tag him. They can't afford to lose Sean this Off Season.



I do not understand some of your fascinations with this guy. I hear constantly about his "physical tools" and that one argument is growing extremely tired. You holler for upside, yet he is entering his 5th season, wouldn't you think he would have hit his prime LAST season? News flash, there is no upside to a CB who has several years of experience with 5 INTs in 65 career games. He isn't a rookie with one down season, it's a consistent performance of overwhelming mediocrity with this guy. Absolutely nothing screams shut down corner/ball hawk about him, it's the polar opposite. . I have seen Randy Starks ON THE LINE make more impact on the ball than Smith.

There is no way I let this guy eat up anywhere near $10m of the cap space which is so essential in building up the team into a perennial contender. My means of replacing him? Either trade up for Miller in swapping our 1st round pick into the top 6-8 while trading 3a (I would push hard for 3a, but may consider a 2nd rounder for Milliner), draft Desmond Trufant with a 2nd, or draft either Trufant OR Milliner while signing a Derek Cox in free agency. I wish luck to Smith where ever he goes, but he is just out of his darn mind in self-valuing himself. It's ludicrous.


How is 10 million that this team won't need with the amount of cap room it has, for 1 year, going to impact "building up the team into a perennial contender?"

They paid 12.5 million to keep Paul Soliai around to play 50% of the snaps.

Like Rich said, CB is already a huge hole. Now you're going to make it even more deficient of a position by letting go the only starting caliber player you have?

I don't care whether Smith has lived up to his potential or not. I think he's an average #2 CB. Is that worth 10 million? Of course not. But it really doesn't matter considering what you already have at the position, the amount of other needs you have to fill, and the fact that it's a 1 year commitment that won't affect this team financially at all.

Your plan is to spend 3 of the first 5 picks (possibly our first 3 picks) we have on CB's, plus sign a high priced one in Free Agency? Go ahead and do that, and see how many other, more important holes you're able to fill.

Even if Sean comes back CB is something you need to invest highly in. It's easy to sit here and say, "well, I can just replace Smith with a cheaper free agent."...Why do you think there are reportedly a half dozen teams that are going to offer Smith 8+ million? CB is a premium position that 32 teams are constantly looking to get better at. Especially with other pressing needs, getting a CB in free agency is not a given, and losing Smith means that, at minimum, you need to go get 2.


Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:45 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21592
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
Phins Rock wrote:
How is 10 million that this team won't need with the amount of cap room it has, for 1 year, going to impact "building up the team into a perennial contender?"


How do you know if they will need it or not? Cap room starts getting eaten up pretty quickly when you have a lot of your own free agents to resign or other free agents to replace them with.

Quote:
They paid 12.5 million to keep Paul Soliai around to play 50% of the snaps.


This is a bad comparison, as Soliai is actually GOOD at what he does.

Quote:
Like Rich said, CB is already a huge hole. Now you're going to make it even more deficient of a position by letting go the only starting caliber player you have?


You had a huge hole with Smith on the roster, so what does he really bring to the table besides allowing a lot of first downs and touchdowns and dropping picks? And even though his tackling has improved, it's still mediocre.

_________________
Image


Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:53 pm
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7532
Location: Massachusetts
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
How is 10 million that this team won't need with the amount of cap room it has, for 1 year, going to impact "building up the team into a perennial contender?"


How do you know if they will need it or not? Cap room starts getting eaten up pretty quickly when you have a lot of your own free agents to resign or other free agents to replace them with.

Quote:
They paid 12.5 million to keep Paul Soliai around to play 50% of the snaps.


This is a bad comparison, as Soliai is actually GOOD at what he does.

Quote:
Like Rich said, CB is already a huge hole. Now you're going to make it even more deficient of a position by letting go the only starting caliber player you have?


You had a huge hole with Smith on the roster, so what does he really bring to the table besides allowing a lot of first downs and touchdowns and dropping picks? And even though his tackling has improved, it's still mediocre.


If they need that extra money in cap room, they will have way over spent.

My point on Soliai wasn't comparing the level of talent. Like I said, I don't care that Sean is (at least what I consider) only an average #2. My point is that the Dolphins knew it would be tough to replace Soliai, and were willing to overpay for 1 season because that commitment isn't significant. Same with Smith. He's not worth 10 million, but it's a lot easier to say you're going to replace him with X and Y Free Agent(s) than it is to actually pull it off.

The market is already scarce of CB's better than Sean, and a lot of them will re-sign before we even get a shot at them. With the need to already sign at least 1 guy, I think you have to find a way to keep Sean on board, and delay improving on him for 1 more year.


Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:41 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21592
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
Phins Rock wrote:
If they need that extra money in cap room, they will have way over spent.


The reason they have so much money is because they have so many free agents which means they are going to have a lot of open roster spots to fill. So on top of the needs they already had, they have to take care of some of the good players they need to keep so as not to create additional needs.

Doing so will eat up cap space very quickly.

It doesn't make sense to eat up $10 million of cap space on a player you can upgrade.

Quote:
My point on Soliai wasn't comparing the level of talent.


That doesn't make my point moot. It has to be part of the logic.

Quote:
My point is that the Dolphins knew it would be tough to replace Soliai, and were willing to overpay for 1 season because that commitment isn't significant.


It is a lot tougher to replace a 360 lbs run stuffer than to replace an underperforming cornerback, so not it is not the same..

Quote:
The market is already scarce of CB's better than Sean


I'm not so sure that is the case. Sean isn't that good.

_________________
Image


Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:09 pm
Profile
Phinfever Draft Insider
Phinfever Draft Insider
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:14 pm
Posts: 3423
Location: Columbia, SC
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
I am not for putting the franchise tag on Sean. Yes, he is talented and he has the size you love in a cornerback.

That being said, for 3 of his 4 years, he was not the best cornerback on the team. He had a few games last year aganist A.J Green and Larry Fitzgerald, games that you thought indicated this kid was ready to be THE GUY.

But Sean was just being Sean and returned back to being not very good. Smaller WR's give him fits and he is just not worth that money.

Hell, I would rather give Jake Long 8 mill/per year. At least in his time at Miami he was considered THE best OLT at one point until the injuries took there toll..At worst with Jake, you have a very solid OLT when healthy....and that is the problem for Jake right now.

There is a solid group of FA cornerbacks. You can also address the need in the draft if need be, but I certainly don't want to overspend on Sean with the Franchise Tag.

_________________
Image


Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:37 pm
Profile
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!

Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 6291
Location: Lancaster, PA
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
Quote:
The Ravens plan to touch base with free agent CB Cary Williams' representation at the Combine.
"The ultimate goal, if possible, is for Cary is to stay a Raven," Williams' agent said. "It's tough terrain with them because of their cap situation and them having to pay their quarterback. If it doesn't work out with Baltimore, I think Cary has elevated his game and himself. ... I'm expecting him to very much be a wanted man by teams." Both the Baltimore Sun and Carroll County Times expect Williams to walk.


let him walk right into the Dolphin tank.
Christmas in March for me would be Wallace and Williams in Miami.


Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:49 am
Profile
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:05 pm
Posts: 2436
Location: NSW, Australia
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
I'm with Rich on this all the way. He isn't that good. He isn't worth nearly that much.
And I'd be happy for them to spend every penny of available cap space, so long as they do it wisely. Spending it by far does not mean "overspending"


Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:19 am
Profile
Phinfever Ring of Honor
Phinfever Ring of Honor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:58 am
Posts: 1239
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
swerve13 wrote:
Quote:
The Ravens plan to touch base with free agent CB Cary Williams' representation at the Combine.
"The ultimate goal, if possible, is for Cary is to stay a Raven," Williams' agent said. "It's tough terrain with them because of their cap situation and them having to pay their quarterback. If it doesn't work out with Baltimore, I think Cary has elevated his game and himself. ... I'm expecting him to very much be a wanted man by teams." Both the Baltimore Sun and Carroll County Times expect Williams to walk.


let him walk right into the Dolphin tank.
Christmas in March for me would be Wallace and Williams in Miami.


Cary Williams would be a major upgrade over Sean Smith.

_________________
Image


Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:26 am
Profile
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!

Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 6291
Location: Lancaster, PA
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
Quote:
GM Jeff Ireland said the Dolphins will likely use the franchise tag.
Furthermore, Ireland hinted that he already knows who he is going to tag, but declined to reveal a name. The two logical candidates are CB Sean Smith and DT Randy Starks, although the Miami Herald has been reporting that Smith will not be tagged. Jake Long is also a free agent, but tagging him would cost $15.365 million.


Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:19 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21592
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
Starks makes the most sense.

Tagging him would be an $8.3 million hit, he plays at that level, but he is getting older and could decline quickly.

_________________
Image


Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:35 pm
Profile
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend

Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:59 pm
Posts: 5117
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
I think the Dolphins are going to let him hit the open market, he'll find out that nobody is going to give him $8-$10M a season, and he'll wind up signing with Miami for somewhere around $6M a season long term. Sean Smith isn't the only talented young cornerback that is going to hit the market. There are several other options for teams to look at. I think Smith is probably the 2nd or 3rd best cornerback on the market this offseason. Not only that but many say this draft is deep at DB. These things lead me to believe his price will be much lower than expected. Especially if some overpaid veteran options wind up hitting the market. Smith and his agent are simply going for shock value right now. They know that Miami is thin at cornerback and they're hoping they can exploit that despite the Dolphins multiple options via free agency and the draft. I honestly think they're praying for the franchise tag.


Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:04 pm
Profile
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:57 am
Posts: 4760
Location: Houston, Texas
Post Re: Will the Dolphins fanchise tag CB Sean Smith?
I like Sean Smith, but let him walk if he is commanding that kind of jack. The free agent list of corners is deep and I believe you can sign another starting caliber or even two for a reasonable amount of money versus paying Smith all that for just his spot on the team. It would be way different if Sean put up great numbers and was a shutdown corner, but the fact is that he has not been that guy.


Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:12 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 24 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: dolphinjim, Google [Bot] and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2010 phpBB Group.
Designed by Coots & IamPZ - Phinfever.com.