Unanswered topics » Active topics


Board index » Miami Dolphins » NFL, College, NFL Draft Talk

All times are UTC-05:00


Phinfever Home Page

Phinfever Chatroom

Phinfever FAQ



Reply to topic  Page 1 of 2
  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Phins Rock
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:51 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7530
Location: Massachusetts
There's been a lot of talk recently about a current NFL player supposedly about to announce he's gay.

Some players and analysts have said that the NFL is ready. Others disagree. Ricky Williams came on campus last night and said there's "no way" a player could exist in an NFL locker room being openly gay. He said the locker room is a very homophobic environment and said he doesn't see a player coming out at all.

I was interested to get all your thoughts on this. Do you think the NFL is ready for it?

Hopefully, for their sake, if this player does come out, I hope it's somebody whose relevant as a player; someone who is respected already in his locker room and by the fan base.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Rich
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Phinfever Blog Writer - Post Game
Phinfever Blog Writer - Post Game

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 26413
Location: Miami, FL
*sigh* What a distraction from what is really important... the game on the field.

None of this should matter.

_________________
Image
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Phins Rock
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:59 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7530
Location: Massachusetts
Rich wrote:
*sigh* What a distraction from what is really important... the game on the field.

None of this should matter.


I agree. Unfortunately it is/going to be a huge deal.

But what you said is why I wouldn't sign/draft a player who I know is gay. I don't want to be the first to take the plunge. Not worth it.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Rich
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Phinfever Blog Writer - Post Game
Phinfever Blog Writer - Post Game

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 26413
Location: Miami, FL
You're probably right, it would need to be someone notable for other players to respect it.

Like an elite QB or a player with a tough reputation like a Ray Lewis type...

Now if a punter were to come out............

_________________
Image
Top
   
Reply with quote  
degs
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:07 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:05 pm
Posts: 2576
Location: NSW, Australia
Phins Rock wrote:
Rich wrote:
*sigh* What a distraction from what is really important... the game on the field.

None of this should matter.


I agree. Unfortunately it is/going to be a huge deal.

But what you said is why I wouldn't sign/draft a player who I know is gay. I don't want to be the first to take the plunge. Not worth it.


It's only a huge deal if people make it one.

In the end, it doesn't change how the guy plays on the field. And therefore it will all blow over and people will forget why they even cared about it.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
00xtremeninja
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Phinfever Hall of Famer
Phinfever Hall of Famer

Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:43 pm
Posts: 960
The locker room setting might be considered "homophobic" in that guys will make all sorts of ignorant jokes by using slurs for people who are gay, but I can't imagine how if someone on any team came out it being a problem. You are involved as a team and you look out for one another. And if one has a problem with it then there will be others to defend it. Philbin also seems like the type of guy that wouldn't put up with one drop of Bullcrap from players if they were harping on another for their sexuality, religion, etc.

I think the NFL is more ready for it than others think. There are some strong gay right activists already in the league and I am sure there are tons more players who would be willing to speak up for it if asked about it.

_________________
Miami Dolphins, Fist Pump Like Champions in 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016!
Image
Top
   
Reply with quote  
FINesse
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:53 pm
Posts: 6138
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
I hope the NFL is ready. I hope society is ready. Every family member probaby has a gay relative or loved one. If they dont they just do not know it. Judging / critisizing / discriminating / hateing on someone for that reason is just wrong in these times (or any). This topic was recently addressed on Necessary Roughness.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
bobby0112
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:53 pm 
Offline
VIP Donor!
VIP Donor!

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:35 am
Posts: 2256
Location: Lakeland, Fl
Rich wrote:
*sigh* What a distraction from what is really important... the game on the field.

None of this should matter.


I feel the same way. However, I am sure the media will turn this whole thing into a 3 ring circus.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
cspooner13
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:16 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Hall of Famer
Phinfever Hall of Famer

Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:05 am
Posts: 863
Location: Mount Vernon, Iowa
I think the media will make a big deal of it, but I don't think any locker room will give two sh*ts about it if the team is winning and the guy is contributing. Many players in every locker room do things that the other guys don't agree with, and I don't think this would be any different.

_________________
www.aspoonfulofsports.blogspot.com
www.aspoonfulofsports.com
Top
   
Reply with quote  
jammer
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:59 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Draft Guru
Phinfever Draft Guru

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 10677
Location: MA
Phins Rock wrote:
Rich wrote:
*sigh* What a distraction from what is really important... the game on the field.

None of this should matter.


I agree. Unfortunately it is/going to be a huge deal.

But what you said is why I wouldn't sign/draft a player who I know is gay. I don't want to be the first to take the plunge. Not worth it.


I know some gay people who use homophobic slurs as jokes and try to keep it lighthearted...sort of in the sense of being macho versus gentle. And yeah, most of them were athletes. I think if it stays in that realm it shouldn't be a locker room issue. When it grows into a bullying scenario it would be a major issue.

If the person coming out tries to make it an all about him situation then I agree it is a distraction that probably won't be tolerated in the locker room. If he plays it as, "yeah I'm gay, its accepted and I'm not ashamed. Next question," then guys might rally around him being himself and being a team first person.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Ski_Money
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:35 pm
Posts: 5021
Location: Anchorage, AK
Well... Pat White is back in the NFL. I got my money on twinkle toes coming out :)
Top
   
Reply with quote  
bobby0112
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:52 pm 
Offline
VIP Donor!
VIP Donor!

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:35 am
Posts: 2256
Location: Lakeland, Fl
cspooner13 wrote:
I think the media will make a big deal of it, but I don't think any locker room will give two sh*ts about it if the team is winning and the guy is contributing. Many players in every locker room do things that the other guys don't agree with, and I don't think this would be any different.


I don't think an NFL team would have a problem with someone coming out. But I do think an NFL team will resent the hell out of being forced under the magnifying glass of the national media. The constant questions and attention this issue will bring will be a major distraction. I think the team members and fan base will resent the distraction this circus will become and will wonder how it affects the teams ability to concentrate on winning after every loss. And they will resent the player that came out and brought all this attention and distraction to them. They won't resent him because he is gay they will resent him because he brought a big distraction to their goal of winning football games to push some personal agenda.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Makchell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:53 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Lead Moderator
Phinfever Lead Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 9034
Being a gay guy in a locker room full of naked dudes is like one of us being in a locker room full of naked girls. It will be hard (no pun intended) to get naked in front of him, awkward.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
MdDolfan
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:58 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Hall of Famer
Phinfever Hall of Famer

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:17 pm
Posts: 782
I heard a rumor that it was Aaron Rogers....
Personally I could care less, just play ball!
Top
   
Reply with quote  
degs
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:15 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:05 pm
Posts: 2576
Location: NSW, Australia
Makchell wrote:
Being a gay guy in a locker room full of naked dudes is like one of us being in a locker room full of naked girls. It will be hard (no pun intended) to get naked in front of him, awkward.


Is it very different than having gay media members in the locker room?
Top
   
Reply with quote  
cspooner13
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:50 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Hall of Famer
Phinfever Hall of Famer

Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:05 am
Posts: 863
Location: Mount Vernon, Iowa
Makchell wrote:
Being a gay guy in a locker room full of naked dudes is like one of us being in a locker room full of naked girls. It will be hard (no pun intended) to get naked in front of him, awkward.


That's such a stereotypical male point of view. Let's look at it: You've compared it to being in a locker room full of naked girls, implying that they guy would be oogling them and such. If that guy were in a locker room full of naked women he didn't find attractive, it wouldn't be a problem. Why do we (as straight men) automatically assume that every gay guy finds EVERY man attractive? We (again, as straight men) don't find EVERY woman attractive, why is the assumption different for them?

_________________
www.aspoonfulofsports.blogspot.com
www.aspoonfulofsports.com
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Phins Rock
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:00 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7530
Location: Massachusetts
cspooner13 wrote:
We (again, as straight men) don't find EVERY woman attractive


Speak for yourself....

Wait....uhhh....I mean....
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Dphins4me
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar
VIP Donor!
VIP Donor!

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:23 pm
Posts: 6945
Who didn't see this coming? It couldn't be that he just is not very good. This is becoming more & more like using racism as a crutch.

Quote:
The Baltimore Ravens have had to part ways with many veteran players this offseason.

Linebacker Ray Lewis and center Matt Birk retired. Safety Ed Reed, linebacker Paul Kruger and linebacker Dannell Ellerbe signed with new teams. Safety Bernard Pollard was released as well.

The Ravens also made a decision to release linebacker Brendon Ayanbadejo on Wednesday. The moves have been necessitated by the new contract given to quarterback Joe Flacco and trying to get their financial commitments under the salary cap.

However, Ayanbadejo thinks the reason for his release may not be that simple. Ayanbadejo and Minnesota Vikings punter Chris Kluwe have been incredibly outspoken supporters of gay rights. According to Tom Rock of Newsday, Ayanbadejo believes his activism for gay rights also was a factor in the team’s decision to release him.


Brendon Ayanbadejo believes gay rights activism played factor in release from Ravens
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Makchell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:23 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Lead Moderator
Phinfever Lead Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 9034
Who didn't see this coming? It couldn't be that he just is not very good. This is becoming more & more like using racism as a crutch.

Yep.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Makchell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:25 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Lead Moderator
Phinfever Lead Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 9034
You've compared it to being in a locker room full of naked girls, implying that they guy would be oogling them and such. If that guy were in a locker room full of naked women he didn't find attractive, it wouldn't be a problem.

I would bet that every guy in the world would find at least 1 cheerleader naked hot. Just like a woman or a gay guy would find a naked football player hot. Say what you want, I wouldn't want to be naked in front of a gay guy.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Makchell
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:26 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Lead Moderator
Phinfever Lead Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 9034
Is it very different than having gay media members in the locker room?

I believe they have clothes on or towels when the media comes in.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
cspooner13
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:35 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Hall of Famer
Phinfever Hall of Famer

Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:05 am
Posts: 863
Location: Mount Vernon, Iowa
Makchell wrote:
You've compared it to being in a locker room full of naked girls, implying that they guy would be oogling them and such. If that guy were in a locker room full of naked women he didn't find attractive, it wouldn't be a problem.

I would bet that every guy in the world would find at least 1 cheerleader naked hot. Just like a woman or a gay guy would find a naked football player hot. Say what you want, I wouldn't want to be naked in front of a gay guy.


For one, you did not specify "cheerleaders". Just because it's a locker room does not mean that it's a locker room of attractive people. Second, you can't assume that just because he's gay that he's going to be attracted to someone in the locker room.

_________________
www.aspoonfulofsports.blogspot.com
www.aspoonfulofsports.com
Top
   
Reply with quote  
rodneyfaile
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:59 am 
Offline
User avatar
Phinfever Ring of Honor
Phinfever Ring of Honor

Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:22 am
Posts: 1480
Location: Chesapeake, VA
What about Gareth Thomas?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3OnU_hNVrA

_________________
Don't give up. Don't ever give up." - Jim Valvano
Top
   
Reply with quote  
10acjed
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:06 am 
Offline
User avatar
VIP Donor!
VIP Donor!

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 5872
Location: Wellington, FL
Well I for one am very proud of Tom Brady, and I hope his coming out paves the way for many more like him so this can be put behind us and we can focus on the game...

_________________
Caution: Reply may contain sarcasm
Top
   
Reply with quote  
shularino
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:21 am 
Offline
User avatar
Phinfever Ring of Honor
Phinfever Ring of Honor

Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:49 pm
Posts: 1815
Location: Charlotte, NC
10acjed wrote:
Well I for one am very proud of Tom Brady, and I hope his coming out paves the way for many more like him so this can be put behind us and we can focus on the game...


Good point 10acjed..........


Image
Top
   
Reply with quote  
10acjed
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:34 am 
Offline
User avatar
VIP Donor!
VIP Donor!

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 5872
Location: Wellington, FL
HOLY SH*# i just spit my coffee out.....

Thanks shularino, you just made my day

_________________
Caution: Reply may contain sarcasm
Top
   
Reply with quote  
pauspe
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:53 am 
Offline
Phinfever Starter
Phinfever Starter

Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:25 pm
Posts: 114
Location: Middleboro, MA
Dphins4me wrote:
Who didn't see this coming? It couldn't be that he just is not very good. This is becoming more & more like using racism as a crutch.

Quote:
The Baltimore Ravens have had to part ways with many veteran players this offseason.

Linebacker Ray Lewis and center Matt Birk retired. Safety Ed Reed, linebacker Paul Kruger and linebacker Dannell Ellerbe signed with new teams. Safety Bernard Pollard was released as well.

The Ravens also made a decision to release linebacker Brendon Ayanbadejo on Wednesday. The moves have been necessitated by the new contract given to quarterback Joe Flacco and trying to get their financial commitments under the salary cap.

However, Ayanbadejo thinks the reason for his release may not be that simple. Ayanbadejo and Minnesota Vikings punter Chris Kluwe have been incredibly outspoken supporters of gay rights. According to Tom Rock of Newsday, Ayanbadejo believes his activism for gay rights also was a factor in the team’s decision to release him.


Brendon Ayanbadejo believes gay rights activism played factor in release from Ravens


I am watching an interview with him on NFL AM right now and he pointed to his age and lack of production for the Ravens releasing him and not his stand on gay rights.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
jammer
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:55 am 
Offline
Phinfever Draft Guru
Phinfever Draft Guru

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 10677
Location: MA
cspooner13 wrote:
Makchell wrote:
You've compared it to being in a locker room full of naked girls, implying that they guy would be oogling them and such. If that guy were in a locker room full of naked women he didn't find attractive, it wouldn't be a problem.

I would bet that every guy in the world would find at least 1 cheerleader naked hot. Just like a woman or a gay guy would find a naked football player hot. Say what you want, I wouldn't want to be naked in front of a gay guy.


For one, you did not specify "cheerleaders". Just because it's a locker room does not mean that it's a locker room of attractive people. Second, you can't assume that just because he's gay that he's going to be attracted to someone in the locker room.


Lets be realistic here. Will he find every guy in the locker room attractive? Of course not. But we're not talking about showering at the YMCA with a bunch of tubby insurance salesmen. I'm sure he'll find a few guys he finds attractive.

Simple solution. If you feel uncomfortable that a gay guy is checking out your twig and berries then just shower when he's not in there.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Makchell
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:18 am 
Offline
Phinfever Lead Moderator
Phinfever Lead Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 9034
For one, you did not specify "cheerleaders". Just because it's a locker room does not mean that it's a locker room of attractive people. Second, you can't assume that just because he's gay that he's going to be attracted to someone in the locker room.


SOrry, I should have been more specific. Football players are good looking guys which is what a gay guy is attracted to just like we are attracted to good looking women. We have our opinions and maybe you are more "tolerent" than I am. Anyway, go Phins.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Rich
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:20 am 
Offline
User avatar
Phinfever Blog Writer - Post Game
Phinfever Blog Writer - Post Game

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 26413
Location: Miami, FL
Makchell wrote:
Football players are good looking guys


Ok bro, if that's how you roll... that's cool...

_________________
Image
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Makchell
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:25 am 
Offline
Phinfever Lead Moderator
Phinfever Lead Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 9034
Ok bro, if that's how you roll... that's cool...

Did I say that? I must have been hacked. ummm, uuhhh.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
10acjed
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:33 am 
Offline
User avatar
VIP Donor!
VIP Donor!

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 5872
Location: Wellington, FL
Rich wrote:
Makchell wrote:
Football players are good looking guys


Ok bro, if that's how you roll... that's cool...



My mother was a bills fan in the 90's becasue Jim Kelley had a nice arse...

true story....

_________________
Caution: Reply may contain sarcasm
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Big Dave
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:29 am 
Offline
User avatar
Phinfever Owner/Admin
Phinfever Owner/Admin

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 16034
Location: Raleigh, NC
Makchell wrote:
Being a gay guy in a locker room full of naked dudes is like one of us being in a locker room full of naked girls. It will be hard (no pun intended) to get naked in front of him, awkward.


I agree. Since locker rooms and showers are shared in a team atmosphere, keep it to themselves and just play football. I'd love to be a part of a team's cheerleader team and shower with them.

BTW, Magic Johnson's son came out of the closet. Does that count? I used to tell my buddies that Magic stood for "My <butt> Got Infected, Coach".


Image


.

_________________
Follow me on Facebook - Phinfever - Miami Dolphins Fan Site @BigDavePhinfever

Follow me on Twitter - David Blake@phinfever

Image
Top
   
Reply with quote  
shularino
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:33 am 
Offline
User avatar
Phinfever Ring of Honor
Phinfever Ring of Honor

Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:49 pm
Posts: 1815
Location: Charlotte, NC
I'm just worried about what this may lead to..............


Image
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Makchell
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:57 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Lead Moderator
Phinfever Lead Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 9034
I'm just worried about what this may lead to..............


LOL! Cutler got sacked!!
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Makchell
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:59 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Lead Moderator
Phinfever Lead Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 9034
[i]My mother was a bills fan in the 90's becasue Jim Kelley had a nice arse...

Yep, and guys think about sex way more than women do, gay or not.
Top
   
Reply with quote  
FINesse
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:53 pm
Posts: 6138
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
Maybe this can be the new logo.

Image
Top
   
Reply with quote  
jammer
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:46 pm 
Offline
Phinfever Draft Guru
Phinfever Draft Guru

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 10677
Location: MA
Makchell wrote:
I'm just worried about what this may lead to..............


LOL! Cutler got sacked!!


That's actually Grossman. Brings a whole new meaning to sexy Rexy. Yeeeeeeesh
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Dphins4me
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:43 am 
Offline
User avatar
VIP Donor!
VIP Donor!

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:23 pm
Posts: 6945
Quote:
Recently, free-agent linebacker Brendon Ayanbadejo has been backpedaling more than a cornerback.

After suggesting this his support for same-sex marriage was a factor in his release by the Ravens, Ayanbadejo quickly said it wasn’t. Now, not long after explaining that four gay players are considering coming out at the same time, Ayanbadejo says they aren’t.


I guess Brendon changed his mind about coming out. :fart:

Ayanbadejo now says four gay players aren’t considering coming out
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Dphins4me
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:48 am 
Offline
User avatar
VIP Donor!
VIP Donor!

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:23 pm
Posts: 6945
10acjed wrote:

Thanks shularino, you just made my day
How should one read this? :grin:
Top
   
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  Page 1 of 2
  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next

Board index » Miami Dolphins » NFL, College, NFL Draft Talk

All times are UTC-05:00


Phinfever Home Page

Phinfever Chatroom

Phinfever FAQ

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited | Chopped and modified by Coots | Original design by Prosk8r