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 Would you consider this move? 
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Post Would you consider this move?
I am not 100% sold on the lineman coming out and the value they have for an early round one pick, so would you consider trading a THIRD ROUND draft pick to the Kansas City Chiefs for Branden Albert? He is 28 years old and you can plug him to start now and move Martin back to the right side where he belongs. Miami can still draft another key offensive line man in round 2 if need be.

This will free up options for pick #12. Thoughts??


Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:44 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
Yes depending on what his new contract would cost. Albert expects to get paid.

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Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:56 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
Finhead34 wrote:
I am not 100% sold on the lineman coming out and the value they have for an early round one pick, so would you consider trading a THIRD ROUND draft pick to the Kansas City Chiefs for Branden Albert? He is 28 years old and you can plug him to start now and move Martin back to the right side where he belongs. Miami can still draft another key offensive line man in round 2 if need be.

This will free up options for pick #12. Thoughts??


I think I could live with a 3rd and a big contract more than a 2nd and big contract. Give him the same money they were looking to give Jake.

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Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:58 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
Not a chance, I think he's oversized and not athletic enough to fit our zone blocking scheme. Not only that but he'd eat up most of the remainder of our CAP space and limit our moves in the future. I'd much rather see us trade up and go after one of the better offensive tackle prospects. I think Joeckel and Johnson are great fits for our scheme and would make excellent replacements for Jake Long.

Albert is worth nothing more than a fifth or sixth round pick to me. The reason for that is Kansas City badly wants him gone so that they are freed up to draft Joeckel. Because he wants a big time contract and the Chiefs want to shift to a West Coast offense that requires more athletic linemen, something Albert is not. The only reason I'm ok with the Dolphins using him as a one year loaner, is because they'd likely get a compensatory pick for Albert after he leaves the following year in free agency, so we'd recoup our pick if it was a mid to late round pick.


Last edited by wkloiber13 on Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:25 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
wkloiber13 wrote:
Not only that but he'd eat up most of the remainder of our CAP space and limit our moves in the future. I'd much rather see us trade up and go after one of the better offensive tackle prospects. I think Joeckel and Johnson are great fits for our scheme and would make excellent replacements for Jake Long.


My thoughts to a tee. The cap issue is the main concern with me, if we're looking to upgrade big at LT this off season, trade up for Lane Johnson. He can prove his worth throughout his first four seasons at a minimum salary, and probably be an overall better tackle than Albert to begin with.

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Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:27 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
Not only that but he'd eat up most of the remainder of our CAP space and limit our moves in the future. I'd much rather see us trade up and go after one of the better offensive tackle prospects. I think Joeckel and Johnson are great fits for our scheme and would make excellent replacements for Jake Long.


My thoughts to a tee. The cap issue is the main concern with me, if we're looking to upgrade big at LT this off season, trade up for Lane Johnson. He can prove his worth throughout his first four seasons at a minimum salary, and probably be an overall better tackle than Albert to begin with.


I just read the other day that Mike Mayock has Fisher rated ahead of Joeckel now. So if the Chiefs fail to move Albert, and choose a defender instead. Then the Eagles take Fisher instead of Joeckel. The Dolphins very well could trade up with someone like Cleveland at 6 and get Joeckel. That is the situation I'm hoping for and one that would benefit the Dolphins the most.


Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:30 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
You better take in to account that the Lions could very well take an OLT as well, since Jeff Backus, their long time OLT retired.

And no team is going to trade a 28 year old OLT for a 5th, 6th round pick. I don't think the Dolphins will make the move either, but giving up a 3rd is something I could live with.

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Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:45 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
wkloiber13 wrote:
Not a chance, I think he's oversized and not athletic enough to fit our zone blocking scheme.


He played in a zone blocking scheme in KC and performed at a high level. Kansas City based their entire scheme on zone blocking (I mean, they had Eric Winston on the other side and he is a zone blocker) and Albert was the 14th best overall left tackle while playing in that scheme (1 sack allowed, 14 QB hurries). He was the 9th best left tackle in pass protection.

As far as being oversized, not sure what you're talking about. He's 6'5 315 lbs... perfect size.

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Not only that but he'd eat up most of the remainder of our CAP space and limit our moves in the future.


Wrong again. We have cap flexibility with some of the contracts on the book, Dmitri Patterson's in particular. After June 1st, we will have even more cap space as Burnett and Dansby's contracts will come off the books.

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The reason for that is Kansas City badly wants him gone so that they are freed up to draft Joeckel. Because he wants a big time contract and the Chiefs want to shift to a West Coast offense that requires more athletic linemen, something Albert is not.


KC franchised him, if they didn't want him around they didn't have to... and they already run a zone scheme.

Also, zone schemes require the athleticism more at center and guard, not necessarily as much at tackle.

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Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:47 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
Rich wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
Not a chance, I think he's oversized and not athletic enough to fit our zone blocking scheme.


He played in a zone blocking scheme in KC and performed at a high level. Kansas City based their entire scheme on zone blocking (I mean, they had Eric Winston on the other side and he is a zone blocker) and Albert was the 14th best overall left tackle while playing in that scheme (1 sack allowed, 14 QB hurries). He was the 9th best left tackle in pass protection.

As far as being oversized, not sure what you're talking about. He's 6'5 315 lbs... perfect size.

Quote:
Not only that but he'd eat up most of the remainder of our CAP space and limit our moves in the future.


Wrong again. We have cap flexibility with some of the contracts on the book, Dmitri Patterson's in particular. After June 1st, we will have even more cap space as Burnett and Dansby's contracts will come off the books.

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The reason for that is Kansas City badly wants him gone so that they are freed up to draft Joeckel. Because he wants a big time contract and the Chiefs want to shift to a West Coast offense that requires more athletic linemen, something Albert is not.


KC franchised him, if they didn't want him around they didn't have to... and they already run a zone scheme.

Also, zone schemes require the athleticism more at center and guard, not necessarily as much at tackle.


Hmmm. I thought he was much bigger than that, and I thought that KC ran a different scheme. Thanks for correcting me on that. I guess I got some bad information from a buddy who is a Chiefs fan.

But as far as Albert goes, I have read that he's not really left tackle material and that he struggled against elite pass rushers this year like Abraham and Johnson. That and as much as I remember seeing Cassell and Quinn get beaten up in the pocket I can't imagine that anyone on that KC line is elite, or worthy of a big contract. I think that line gave up 40 sacks last year. Worse than our line if I'm not mistaken.

If that's the case, I'd rather see what Martin can do at LT than waste big money on Albert. Martin struggles with bullrushers, something that can be corrected by putting in some time in the weight room. But Albert struggles with speed rushers, likely due to a lack of footspeed and technique, something I think that is more difficult to overcome.

What's your opinion of Albert. Do you think he's a good fit? Or do you think we'd be better off drafting someone?


Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:18 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
Not only that but he'd eat up most of the remainder of our CAP space and limit our moves in the future. I'd much rather see us trade up and go after one of the better offensive tackle prospects. I think Joeckel and Johnson are great fits for our scheme and would make excellent replacements for Jake Long.


My thoughts to a tee. The cap issue is the main concern with me, if we're looking to upgrade big at LT this off season, trade up for Lane Johnson. He can prove his worth throughout his first four seasons at a minimum salary, and probably be an overall better tackle than Albert to begin with.


:awe:


Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:18 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
What's your opinion of Albert. Do you think he's a good fit? Or do you think we'd be better off drafting someone?


A lot of "ifs" of course, but according to Rich's NFL ranking's on Albert he held his own and IF Miami can get him for a 3rd, for me, it is worth it as Martin is just not the answer on the LT position.

You can blend him in on the right side, but I just don't believe the kid is an elite talent to protect Tannehill at this level, but again my opinion. As far as a contract for Albert is concerned, don't be fooled as at this point he wants to be "wanted" and Miami has shown they can be creative with how they structure contracts.

Repeating what I said earlier, I hope Miami does NOT trade multiple keys picks to move way down to get the lineman that are coming out in this year's draft.


Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:25 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
I wonder if Martin is the answer at the RT position? I hope he improves but if he does not is he a satisfactory player for the right side of the O-line?


Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:32 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
AQNOR, the jury is still out for me all the way around on Martin. I was so unimpressed with his lack of brute strength. You would think a smart kid out of Stanford and at his size would be a workout warrior versus looking like play dough man. Strength and conditioning coaches can work wonders with people that WANT to change and improve, let's hope Martin is one of those guys.


Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:34 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
AQNOR wrote:
I wonder if Martin is the answer at the RT position? I hope he improves but if he does not is he a satisfactory player for the right side of the O-line?


I have to question that also. I think we need to add a legit left tackle this year and hope Martin becomes a quality right tackle this season. Otherwise we;ll have to head into next year's free agency looking for a right tackle upgrade.


Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:43 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
Yep, hope is about all we can go by for sure right now. I hope the reports? rumors? of his working out are correct and I hope he gets better.

Good thing we all trust the personnel people to know what they are doing. ; )


Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:49 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
AQNOR wrote:
Yep, hope is about all we can go by for sure right now. I hope the reports? rumors? of his working out are correct and I hope he gets better.

Good thing we all trust the personnel people to know what they are doing. ; )


if we find a top shelf solution to left tackle and start Martin at right, and if Martin is a complete disaster at right side.....we'd probably have to turn to Nate Garner to finish out the season, especially if we're in the thick of the playoff hunt.


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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
Obviously the team don't feel very desperate at OLT...If they did they would have signed Winston or one of the others FA's...I'm thinking this is all part of the draft chess game..

Ireland is making it look this way for a reason.


Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:26 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
Here is my take on the Dolphins tackle situation. I think the ideal scenario for Miami is one where Joeckel slips, and they trade up to get him to play LT. Martin then slides back over to RT, which was the plan for him all along. If Martin fails to handle the RT job, then he'll be replaced next season by hopefully Jake Matthews, and take Gardner's spot on the bench as our depth OT.
The second best scenario, and this one depends on Martin, is that Martin shows up to camp ready to go (ie. he's built that much needed upper body strength to handle bullrushers), and we draft Lane Johnson at 12. We would then let the two battle to see who plays LT/RT. Then if Martin looses the LT battle, and fails to develop as a RT, then we can target Jake Matthews in the draft, and Martin will take Gardner's spot on the bench.
Either way, I think we'll wind up giving Tannehill the protection he needs.


Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:32 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
Kev1321 wrote:
Obviously the team don't feel very desperate at OLT...If they did they would have signed Winston or one of the others FA's...I'm thinking this is all part of the draft chess game..

Ireland is making it look this way for a reason.


If the plan was to move up and draft a tackle then why would they sign Winston?
I've read that teams were unimpressed by Winston's tape this year despite reports that he graded out highly.

I'm sure Ireland had a draft board set already when free agency started. He may have decided that value for an offensive tackle was better in the draft than free agency. You get a more talented player at a much cheaper price. Makes alot of sense.


Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:30 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
swerve13 wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
Obviously the team don't feel very desperate at OLT...If they did they would have signed Winston or one of the others FA's...I'm thinking this is all part of the draft chess game..

Ireland is making it look this way for a reason.


If the plan was to move up and draft a tackle then why would they sign Winston?
I've read that teams were unimpressed by Winston's tape this year despite reports that he graded out highly.

I'm sure Ireland had a draft board set already when free agency started. He may have decided that value for an offensive tackle was better in the draft than free agency. You get a more talented player at a much cheaper price. Makes alot of sense.


I think Winston would have been a great fit for the Dolphins at RT, especially when you consider he's played under Mike Sherman before, and likely knows the scheme. But if you noticed what's been happening with him, it appears that while he may be very interested in playing for Miami, we're only interested in him if it's for very, very, cheap.

Per Rotoworld:
Quote:
Per the Miami Herald, the Dolphins' interest in free agent RT Eric Winston has "otherwise waned somewhat."Beat writer Armando Salguero thinks the Dolphins are only interested in signing Winston if the 29-year-old decides he'll play for Miami "very, very cheaply." After drawing a boatload of perceived interest shortly after his release, Winston's market has gone ice cold. Salguero adds that recently released RT Tyson Clabo could be a possibility for the Fins. Apr 4 - 3:26 PMSource: Miami Herald


Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:57 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
So some of you want to trade up to take a LT that could be a bust, but don't want to trade a 3rd round pick for a proven LT that is only 28 years....ummm. Forget the cap, there are ways around it.


Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:17 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
wkloiber13 wrote:
I guess I got some bad information from a buddy who is a Chiefs fan.


If the Chiefs didn't run a zone scheme, why did they sign Eric Winston?

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But as far as Albert goes, I have read that he's not really left tackle material and that he struggled against elite pass rushers this year like Abraham and Johnson.


I posted his stats. 1 sack, 14 hurries. That's phenomenal pass protection.

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What's your opinion of Albert. Do you think he's a good fit? Or do you think we'd be better off drafting someone?


We keep hearing the top three guys will go before we pick. If we can't trade up for them with something lower than a 3rd round pick, wouldn't it make sense to use a 3rd round pick on a guy who would provide a considerable upgrade over Jake Long?

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Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:28 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
Rich wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
I guess I got some bad information from a buddy who is a Chiefs fan.


If the Chiefs didn't run a zone scheme, why did they sign Eric Winston?

Quote:
But as far as Albert goes, I have read that he's not really left tackle material and that he struggled against elite pass rushers this year like Abraham and Johnson.


I posted his stats. 1 sack, 14 hurries. That's phenomenal pass protection.

Quote:
What's your opinion of Albert. Do you think he's a good fit? Or do you think we'd be better off drafting someone?


We keep hearing the top three guys will go before we pick. If we can't trade up for them with something lower than a 3rd round pick, wouldn't it make sense to use a 3rd round pick on a guy who would provide a considerable upgrade over Jake Long?


I guess the hard thing I'm trying to figure out is if Albert is this top ten tackle, and he only allowed one sack all of last season, then why is KC looking to move him??? It's obvious they value him enough to franchise tag him. But why haven't they been able to reach a long term deal? Is his asking price too high? Is he asking for more than $10M a season? Also, what is all of this talk about him moving over to RT? If the guy has played LT for five years, and played at a very high level, why on earth would you want to mess with that and move him?

This whole story becomes more and more puzzling the more I read about it. While the addition of Albert is becoming more and more appealing to me as I read about the guy, the fact that he's holding out of OTAs and openly asking for a long term contract makes me wonder what's really going on.

I guess I've changed my stance on Albert somewhat over the past day or so. If he's really just looking for a long term deal, and he's willing to sign for a reasonable amount (a little more than Vollmer got), then I guess he'd be a good fit. The guy's 28, he's durable, and he's played at a high level for a while now. I think the Dolphins can make this move if they're not sold on Martin and the price is right.


Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:47 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
thats' what makes the decison easy in my mind, it's the price tag. Albert wants a ton of cash. The rookies will be cheaper, younger options.


Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:50 pm
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
swerve13 wrote:
thats' what makes the decison easy in my mind, it's the price tag. Albert wants a ton of cash. The rookies will be cheaper, younger options.


Add to that you should expect the rookie to be on the team for 10 years. Albert 5.
Things don't always work out that way, but that's what the expectation should be.


Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:27 am
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
wkloiber13 wrote:
I guess the hard thing I'm trying to figure out is if Albert is this top ten tackle, and he only allowed one sack all of last season, then why is KC looking to move him??? It's obvious they value him enough to franchise tag him. But why haven't they been able to reach a long term deal? Is his asking price too high? Is he asking for more than $10M a season? Also, what is all of this talk about him moving over to RT? If the guy has played LT for five years, and played at a very high level, why on earth would you want to mess with that and move him?


Maybe KC doesn't know what they're doing. I don't know.

Obviously he is good enough to be franchised. Teams don't tie up significant cap space for bad players.

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Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:37 am
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
Finhead34 wrote:
I am not 100% sold on the lineman coming out and the value they have for an early round one pick, so would you consider trading a THIRD ROUND draft pick to the Kansas City Chiefs for Branden Albert? He is 28 years old and you can plug him to start now and move Martin back to the right side where he belongs. Miami can still draft another key offensive line man in round 2 if need be.

This will free up options for pick #12. Thoughts??


Would KC take a 3rd round pick? Is Albert going to hold out for a huge contract?

I'm not overly confident right now with Martin as the LT and unless Miami is planning a bold move up into the top 6ish then its hard to imagine they land Joeckel, Fisher or Lane. If Albert is willing to take the contract Miami offered Long then I'm fine with it. They can get out of it after a couple years (like every other contract this offseason).


Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:38 am
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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
swerve13 wrote:
thats' what makes the decison easy in my mind, it's the price tag. Albert wants a ton of cash. The rookies will be cheaper, younger options.


But you're paying for a more proven commodity so of course it's going to cost more.

You can grab one of the rookies and he turns out to be a bust. You can't be 100% sure what you're getting in the rookie. With Albert, there is a proven track record.

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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
Rich wrote:
wkloiber13 wrote:
I guess the hard thing I'm trying to figure out is if Albert is this top ten tackle, and he only allowed one sack all of last season, then why is KC looking to move him??? It's obvious they value him enough to franchise tag him. But why haven't they been able to reach a long term deal? Is his asking price too high? Is he asking for more than $10M a season? Also, what is all of this talk about him moving over to RT? If the guy has played LT for five years, and played at a very high level, why on earth would you want to mess with that and move him?


Maybe KC doesn't know what they're doing. I don't know.

Obviously he is good enough to be franchised. Teams don't tie up significant cap space for bad players.


I think KC is trying to move out of the top spot in the draft and by doing so had to hedge against not getting Joeckel or Fisher. And yes, I believe Albert is thinking he is a 10+ million per year type tackle. Not sure they banked on Albert refusing to play RT.


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Post Re: Would you consider this move?
swerve13 wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
Obviously the team don't feel very desperate at OLT...If they did they would have signed Winston or one of the others FA's...I'm thinking this is all part of the draft chess game..

Ireland is making it look this way for a reason.


If the plan was to move up and draft a tackle then why would they sign Winston?
I've read that teams were unimpressed by Winston's tape this year despite reports that he graded out highly.


Would you call that an unimpressive, impressive tape? Or an impressive unimpressive tape?

I don't see them moving up for a tackle...There are still vet available for cheap why blow a 2nd or 3rd to move up for a guy you might be able to get anyway....If you wanted...Worst case you get better value from a more important (harder to fill)position..DE. CB.

To answer your question..I just don't think tackle is the 1st round pick..Ireland is making it look like it may be


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