Hear me out...



Ginn is NOT a #1 WR, we all know that. Other team's #1 CB's shut him down and they were able to shade a Safety over Ginn to prevent the deep ball, as we had NO other deep threat on the roster.



Now that we have Marshall, we need to KEEP Ginn for 2 reasons:



1. Without Ginn, we have no other deep threat and opposing defenses will shade on top of Marshall all day long. This will frustrate Marshall and we don't need that. Camarillo/Bess/Hartline opposite of Marshall just doesn't strike any fear into opposing defenses. Those 3 guys are slot players.



2. Imagine Ginn and Marshall on each side of the field. That is a ton of deep threat and the safeties will have to play more honest. If they want to shade on Marshall, I'll take Ted Ginn on deep routes vs #2 CBs in the league (remember, Ginn continually faced the opposing best CB, now he'll get their #2). If both WRs are shaded by safeties, we can run the ball all day long.



Ginn is the definition of a #2 WR along with a KR/PR. I believe he will thrive in this role as he will play weaker CBs and be isolated more (anyone have the video of Ginn's monster bomb TD that was called back for a penalty?). I believe much of Eddie Royal's success came due to the fact teams concentrated so hard on Marshall. I can see Ginn having success for this reason as well.



If we trade Ginn for a low pick, it'll be a shame. Give this kid a chance to have the pressure off his back, relieve some pressure from Marshall, and show us what he can do when he doesn't have to be "the man."



The odd man out, in my opinion, has to be Camarillo. He, Bess and Hartline are all too similar and the latter two have youth on their side. I understand Camarillo has great hands, but someone has got to go.



Imagine if you will, a 4 WR set with Ginn and Marshall on the outsides, and Bess and Hartline in the slots... Not to mention Ronnie or Ricky in the backfield.

That's easy to defend.

Double-team Marshall because Ginn or Fasano will either fumble or drop the ball.

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Exactly. Forget about Ginn's speed you guys. He can't catch, and even if you give it to him on a reverse or kickoff/punt, he holds the ball as if it's some kind of disease infested animal that he has to get rid of as soon as possible.

Fasano...well, he's average at best.

Ginn can be traded, and if Miami can get anything for him, it's a good deal. You can get speed anywhere, doesn't mean the player is any good.

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Thats why I'm still on the draft Bryant bandwagon.

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CJ Spiller will be the cure to get rid of a Ted Ginn infection.

I'd go with Spiller or R. Mathews. I say lets get some offensive weapons to complement Henne and our O-Line.

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im with u 10000000 % PLEASE DONT GET RID OF GINN.
i have a reply saying very similar stuff.

with MARSHALL as our # 1 this with give GINN a chance to play without the double coverage & the pressure that was on him. plus he could still be our #1 returner & we all know he is 1 of the biggest threats as a return speacalist.with the 2 of them MARSHALL & GINN that will be 1 of the best WR duo in the league.IMO .i would rank them in the top 3 duo's.
plus that will give HENNE everything that he would ever need to become the threat that i believe he is.

I BEG U PARCELLS DON'T LET GINN GO

Ted Ginn was a first round pick despite a frail frame with poor body proportions. He doesn't have great hands and avoids contact. My opinion is that he's not a WR2 or a slot WR. Its time to cut our losses.

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I say Spiller, just for the fact of his versatility (kick & punt returns, lining in the slot, etc.) Speed and shifty-ness as well. I know that the Phins NEED defense, but drafting someone like Spiller would give the Phins a REALLY young offense, with time to gel and mature together as a unit. The Phins might not have to touch any skill positions for years (baring injuries or a bust if my Spiller dream comes true).

There is depth at defensive positions in the draft this year, but there isn't another Spiller. And the way that prospects in college look at the RB position for the next few years, there isn't another RB that looks as talented as Spiller available through the draft.

Imagine being able to line up in the I-Form with 2 WR, a TE, and Spiller and Brown/Williams in the backfield (Spiller at RB and Brown/Williams at FB) and motion Spiller to a slot position. You can practically determine whether to throw the ball or run it based on how the defense adjusts. With Henning as the Offensive Coordinator, I can only imagine the possibilities/formations/plays that would be run with an enigma like Spiller being on the team.

I'm just curious, why is everyone so set on drafting spiller or mathews or any of these other offensive players? Yeah Spiller may be good but he is a player at the position of arguably our biggest strength! Unless we are able to trade Ronnie for a 1st (which wont happen) then drafting spiller makes little sense to this team.

There are so many holes that need to be filled on Defense and the addition of Marshall allows us to look at them. I ask this question: would you rather have a great offense and terrible defense or a good offense and good defense? We NEED a Free safety and if Earl Thomas is there I think we should take him. This same secondary last year (minus gibril) let up big play after big play. They are young and will get better, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't focus on giving them some help. (i know bringing in a rookie safety might not be the perfect solution but can you think of a better one?ha) IMO With our 1st two picks we should collect 2 of DT, OLB, FS.

I'm split on Ginn, his speed is nice but I would rather have someone who can catch and run routes than sprint 40 yards in a line and get confused when he sees a ball coming at him. Given that we are looking to trade smiley, is there any chance of a smiley+ginn package for an early 3rd? (maybe the ravens if they ship gaither, cam cameron is there and the only person i coudl see giving up decent value for ginn)

i say keep Ginn as well. You know what will happen if we trade him. He will have his breakout season and have something like 1500 yds and double digit TDs. keeping him for another season cant hurt. if he doesnt flourish as a #2, then get rid of him.

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I agree. With the pressure of being the man, Ted Ginn might be able to spread the field and gain some confidence. Keeping Ginn will help Brandon, and all our WR's. They won't be able to roll all the coverage Brandon's way, if Ginn keeps burining them deep.

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Sorry, but that's all folks. I think trading Ginn is a no brainer now. We package Ginn and Turner for a 2nd or 3rd. We need to get rid of him because there is simply no time to wait for him. The only speed he's shown on the field is how to get out of bounds. I believe he leads the league in the 40 time headed out of bounds.

Marshall won't get doubled like everyone thinks. Thanks largely in part to Bess. If Bess progresses even more this year than he did last, we may actually see two guys catch 100 balls. Adding Marshall solidifies a complementary receiving corps:

Marshall - playmaker
Bess - third down specialist
Camarillo - Mr. Clutch
Hartline - consistent and dependable considering his lack of experience.

Keeping Ginn purely because he stretches the field is simply a waste of a roster space.

What do you mean he can't catch? He sure caught the ball last year when Pennington was throwing the ball, remember the Seattle game, Jets game and the TD's called back against Cleveland and Philly in his rookie year. Don't be so hasty to write Ginn off like most of you wrote off the Trifecta's offseason decision making. GIVE THE GUY A CHANCE NEXT TO A #1 RECEIVER!!!!!

I think Ginn is fine for depth....but it sucks that a #1 pick is like 4th on your charts. Hartline is our #2 guy. Bess is perfect in the slot. Ginn is an odd man out right now. However, he gives you depth...he can be a return man and he can still get nice yards on the reverse. If you can't get more than 4th rounder for him, might as well keep him. Also, I can see some potential for a few big plays in the passing game when Ginn comes in as the 3rd or 4th wide receiver. Marshall will garner extra attention and Hartline will be drawing his man....Ginn won't see double teams and might be able to exploit deep zones when the safety rotates to Marshall. If Ginn could just catch the ball now...............

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Philbin's countenance exudes confidence!
1984 was so long ago...Will there ever be another rainbow?

I say Ginn goes we can always pick up a speed guy in the draft if we can get a 3rd or better with a pack deal say Ginn and another player than do it.........Ginn just cant catch dont care if he is 2nd or 3rd (wr) and your right Bess,Hartline,and Cam are all the same type of (wr) but P.Turner can be another Marshall he has the body type maybe not the speed but the body so my choice would be Cam and Ginn can go Marshall,Bess,Hartline,and Turner and you throw in P.White at some (wr) plus pick up a speedy guy in the draft and we are all set.

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I have the mind set that we are not Super Bowl contenders this year, yet contenders to at least make the playoffs. With that said....

I live in south Jersey, and the team that the people root for down here is the Eagles, so lets take them for an example. I don't want to see our team turn out like the Eagles. Yes, they have been very successful over the last ten years, but haven't won a Superbowl despite having a QB that will go down as one of the greats. Let me explain.

Donovan McNabb showed signs of being a starter right away after being draft, in which he did start, turning a 5-11 team in to a perennial competitor for the NFC championship year in and year out. He was working with average, at best, running backs and wide receivers on a team that runs the west coast offense, primarily throwing the ball more than running it. McNabb was the sole reason for his skill position teammates success, most of the time. Despite having a talented QB, the Eagles NEVER addressed the positions essential to put the over the top besides drafting Freddie Mitchell (huge bust). When they did bring a talented playmaker in for McNabb to target (Terrell Owens), it put them over the top and took them to the Super Bowl. TO was a "team obliterator" though, and the marriage between the two ended. The Eagles eventually drafted playmakers in DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin and McNabb had arguably his best season although the Eagles fell short. McNabb spent 10 years in Philly before he had a legitimate offense to work with.

I do not want to be in the same position as an Eagles fan. Henne may be the answer that we as Phins fans have been looking for since Marino retired. I don't want to see Henne become a McNabb. I would rather see a young and talented offense for Henne to lead for the next 5-10 years and know what we have in him as a QB. If we get him young and talented players, such as Spiller (in combination with Marshall, Bess and Hartline as well as the talented offensive line and the power running game that is already in place), we as fans might just get the answer to Marino and have an exciting offensive juggernaut for years. And, it just might be the way to find out IF Henne is the real deal, leaving him no excuses for a pitiful offense attack.

IN NO WAY am I comparing Henne to McNabb, nor the Phins to the Eagles. If I remember correctly, the two teams that were in the Super Bowl last year were two teams that had the top offenses and defenses that ranked in the bottom half.

Lets get our offense together while they are all young, from the o-line to the receivers to the QB and RB's, and give them time to gel and mature together as a unit. It's not like we can't address defense in the 2-7 rounds. The true offensive talent, the big time playmakers, in this years draft are in the first round, and that's about it.

Those were called back because there was an illegal block. If a gets some illegal help, of course he's going to look good (Tom Brady).
I remember those games. Do you remember all his drops?

There is a thread where I pointed out the number of detrimental plays he has is greater than the number of good plays he has.

He got his chance for 3 years. He's not worth a roster spot.

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If i base your question on the team that just won the Super Bowl...

New Orleans was ranked #1 in offense
New Orleans was ranked #25 in defense

New Orleans won the Super Bowl

Ill let that answer your question...

Come on. Ginn is in no way a number 2 WR. If he would be a number 2 WR in our offense with Marshall now, 1. he would have been the number 1 or number 2 WR last season and 2. we wouldn't be looking to trade him. Hartline was our starter last season, he played significantly well for a 4th round rookie draft pick (especially coming out of the dreadful college which we will not name) and he will definitely be our compliment to Marshall next season. Bess proved himself to be one of the better slot guys in the game, so he'll be there at WR3, and that really just leaves either Cam or Ginn getting the boot. So...who should we keep? A reliable, hard-working, tough, WR who never drops the ball, or a fast, afraid, small, and drop-prone WR who has lost us more games than he has won us? I'll take Greg over Ginn and his family any day of the week, and I don't see all of this talk about how Ginn will be a great down-the-field compliment to Marshall while he wasn't a compliment to anybody last season besides for his kickoff return TDs against the Jets.

Hate to see us waste a 1st rnd pick, but might as well get something for him.

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305sportsblog.blogspot.com

Agreed 100%. Nontheless he is a former top ten pick heading into the more expensive years of his contract.

I find it funny that Hartline sat on the bench behind Ginn at OSU, and now he is probably going to be the reason that Ginn gets traded.

With that said, I hope that unless we get at least a 4th round pick that we keep Ginn for KR abilities, because its not that easy to find somone who can be a threat to house it everytime they have the ball in their hands on a return. I believe that Ginn should be given one more chance unless we get some value for him. I would be disappointed if Ginn were just given away.

He also has the ability to fumble it every time.
It's not that difficult to find someone to return kicks for you either.
Reggie Bush, Darren Sproles, Leon Washington, Devin Hester, Roscoe Parrish, Josh Cribbs, Desean Jackson, Jacoby Jones, Jonnie Lee Higgins...

Just to name a few that have just as many or more return TD's than Ginn.

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Brian Hartline started 2 games last season for the Dolphins.
Davon Bess started 2 games last season for the Dolphins.
Ted Ginn Jr started 12 games last season for the Dolphins.
Greg Camarillo started 16 games last season for the Dolphins.

If we can't get value for Ginn, I don't think we should trade him. He is worth something to us as a return man, and a decoy for deep routes. Actually when thrown to deep, he has snagged some touchdown passes. I think not having the pressure of being 'they guy' would be helpful for him as well.

Great job pasting your girly talk Thread on all the boards!!

Ted Ginn .... here's Ben Franklin's analysis (And I'll bet Tuna thinks like Poor Richard):

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
~ Benjamin Franklin

How does that work when you are flipping a coin?

Are you positive about the source?

Depends, are you expecting there to be anything other than what a coin has produced? Such as George Bush's profile?

If so, you're insane.

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Heads = Ted drops it

Tails = Ted runs out of bounds or slides down

Edgie = TD .... whoooopeeeee!!! Yahooooo!!!!

Ginn was 5th last year in total kick return yards and tied for 2nd in TD's, but you're probably not going to change your opinion even after I present these facts to you.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... eturnYards

good one

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Depends are you expecting there to be anything other than an obvious answer to such a constructed question?

If so, you're insane. lol

When I play a new piece of music over and over on my trumpet I expect to play it better the last time I play it than the first time I played it. Insane I know but there it is.

I wonder if it is insane to expect players to be better as they mature in the NFL? Probably to a certain point. Has Ginn reached that point? He did seem to regress last year but could that be the situation (QB change) he was in? Could he be better playing with a #1 wide reciever beside him?

I don't really have a dog in this fight if Ginn is gone tommorow you will see no tears from me but I am not sure if it is insane to think that Ginn can improve in the right situation. I am sure that some will disagree. What, will that make one side or the other insane or just in disagreement? lol

lol

Brian Hartline is not a slot guy first of all. Why would anyone think that? The guy was actually our BEST deep threat last year. Speed or not.

But, yes I agree. Keeping Ginn would be good with Marshall in the fold. It will be tough to defend Ginn when Marshall is getting all the attention. Stacking the box just became a difficult thing to do for Defensive Coordinators.

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I agree on all points. Also, I believe he's pretty cheap for us this year. A few deep passes to Ginn will help open up things underneath. Parcells is high on special teams, so, he has value there. I would like to see him develop some mental toughness. I think he has all the talent in the world, but he sabotages himself.

No matter what we think, Parcells is shopping him and considers him to be the odd-man-out. Face it, aside from Ginn we have a good group of sure-handed receivers that are tough-minded in getting that extra yard. They're not afraid to turn things upfield rather than out of bounds ... and that is a Parcells trait.

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His two drops in the endzone against the Colts were Pennington passes.

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Intelligent, knowledgeable football fans know we should keep Ginn. The rest? Well, you know!

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I think we should keep Ginn unless we get a great deal for him.

But I guess your stance is, if people don't agree with your OPINION, they are idiots, correct?

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I would say that is the way he thinks...we could get the same out of a (wr) we draft next week the fact that he can go deep and open up some room for Marshall is right but its about if another team likes his value more than we do....hell if want speed we could trade Ginn for a later pick and get Ford from Celmson 5-8 181 ran a 4.34 or we can get Banks from K state 5-7 160 he ran a 4.24 and still use the Ginn pick on somebody else plus team are not afraid of Ginns hands so they will say let him run all day its a toss up if he will catch it but with a new speed guy they wont know till he catches it and runs right by them

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Yeah...click the "AVG" button and you'll see Ginn slide to 13th. Big whoop he had a bunch of yards...it tends to happen when your defense gives up points left and right.

He's tied for 2nd in Kick return touchdowns...but what about total Punt and Kick? He falls out of the top 5.

Combine that with his ratio of detrimental plays=good plays that I listed in another thread, and I'll say the same: "You're probably not going to change your opinion even after I present [the facts]"

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