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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:17 pm 
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nbrewer22 wrote:
Iowafin wrote:
nbrewer22 wrote:
its not that easy to find somone who can be a threat to house it everytime they have the ball in their hands on a return.


He also has the ability to fumble it every time.
It's not that difficult to find someone to return kicks for you either.
Reggie Bush, Darren Sproles, Leon Washington, Devin Hester, Roscoe Parrish, Josh Cribbs, Desean Jackson, Jacoby Jones, Jonnie Lee Higgins...

Just to name a few that have just as many or more return TD's than Ginn.



Ginn was 5th last year in total kick return yards and tied for 2nd in TD's, but you're probably not going to change your opinion even after I present these facts to you.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... eturnYards



Yeah...click the "AVG" button and you'll see Ginn slide to 13th. Big whoop he had a bunch of yards...it tends to happen when your defense gives up points left and right.

He's tied for 2nd in Kick return touchdowns...but what about total Punt and Kick? He falls out of the top 5.

Combine that with his ratio of detrimental plays=good plays that I listed in another thread, and I'll say the same: "You're probably not going to change your opinion even after I present [the facts]"

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:30 pm 
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Rich wrote:
dolphinjim wrote:
Intelligent, knowledgeable football fans know we should keep Ginn. The rest? Well, you know! :yay:


I think we should keep Ginn unless we get a great deal for him.

But I guess your stance is, if people don't agree with your OPINION, they are idiots, correct?


Pretty much. The fact is that you cannot teach SPEED and he has is to spare, you CAN teach route running, catching with your hands etc. The last 6 games he caught everything thrown his way, it took him a few games to get the timing down with Henne. However, to the uneducated Fins fan, he dropped every pass. I am here to educate the football challenged.
:awe:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:33 pm 
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LMFAO Iowa !!! You are such a hater, he wasn't THE PUNT RETURNER LAST YEAR. Bess was !!! Another brilliant move by Sparano. Tell me something Iowa, did you actually SEE any games from up there, or did you watch the highlights on ESPN????

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:34 pm 
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dolphinjim wrote:
Rich wrote:
dolphinjim wrote:
Intelligent, knowledgeable football fans know we should keep Ginn. The rest? Well, you know! :yay:


I think we should keep Ginn unless we get a great deal for him.

But I guess your stance is, if people don't agree with your OPINION, they are idiots, correct?


Pretty much. The fact is that you cannot teach SPEED


Never understood that saying...you most certainly can teach speed. It's called speed training.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:44 pm 
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LMFAO!!!!! Speed training????? That is your response???? Let me ask you this, have you ever seen a college recruit run let's say a 4.8 and then through "speed training" when he gets in the NFL he runs a 4.3????? :)

One more time....

Wow.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:00 pm 
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dolphinjim wrote:
LMFAO Iowa !!! You are such a hater, he wasn't THE PUNT RETURNER LAST YEAR. Bess was !!! Another brilliant move by Sparano. Tell me something Iowa, did you actually SEE any games from up there, or did you watch the highlights on ESPN????


Yeah. I watched them all. I realize Ginn wasn't the punt returner. That's exactly my point...he's not good enough to do it and too much a reliability.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:02 pm 
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dolphinjim wrote:
LMFAO!!!!! Speed training????? That is your response???? Let me ask you this, have you ever seen a college recruit run let's say a 4.8 and then through "speed training" when he gets in the NFL he runs a 4.3????? :)

One more time....

Wow.


You're not born running a 4.3
You train. It's taught. It's learned. Thus, speed can be coached.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:51 pm 
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Iowafin wrote:
dolphinjim wrote:
LMFAO!!!!! Speed training????? That is your response???? Let me ask you this, have you ever seen a college recruit run let's say a 4.8 and then through "speed training" when he gets in the NFL he runs a 4.3????? :)

One more time....

Wow.


You're not born running a 4.3
You train. It's taught. It's learned. Thus, speed can be coached.


You can actually increase your speed greatly with good running technique and posture...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:50 pm 
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dolphinjim wrote:
Rich wrote:
dolphinjim wrote:
Intelligent, knowledgeable football fans know we should keep Ginn. The rest? Well, you know! :yay:


I think we should keep Ginn unless we get a great deal for him.

But I guess your stance is, if people don't agree with your OPINION, they are idiots, correct?


Pretty much. The fact is that you cannot teach SPEED and he has is to spare, you CAN teach route running, catching with your hands etc. The last 6 games he caught everything thrown his way, it took him a few games to get the timing down with Henne. However, to the uneducated Fins fan, he dropped every pass. I am here to educate the football challenged.
:awe:


Well I personally cannot respect individuals who cannot respect differing opinions.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:38 pm 
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Do we have an ignore posters feature on this site? I need to use it for a minute.

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:38 pm 
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Rich wrote:
dolphinjim wrote:
Intelligent, knowledgeable football fans know we should keep Ginn. The rest? Well, you know! :yay:


I think we should keep Ginn unless we get a great deal for him.

But I guess your stance is, if people don't agree with your OPINION, they are idiots, correct?


that is rich. pot, meet kettle


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:40 pm 
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Iowafin wrote:
dolphinjim wrote:
LMFAO Iowa !!! You are such a hater, he wasn't THE PUNT RETURNER LAST YEAR. Bess was !!! Another brilliant move by Sparano. Tell me something Iowa, did you actually SEE any games from up there, or did you watch the highlights on ESPN????


Yeah. I watched them all. I realize Ginn wasn't the punt returner. That's exactly my point...he's not good enough to do it and too much a reliability.


Liability.

I rest my case.

Iowa. :hithead:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:56 pm 
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Iowafin wrote:
dolphinjim wrote:
LMFAO!!!!! Speed training????? That is your response???? Let me ask you this, have you ever seen a college recruit run let's say a 4.8 and then through "speed training" when he gets in the NFL he runs a 4.3????? :)

One more time....

Wow.


You're not born running a 4.3
You train. It's taught. It's learned. Thus, speed can be coached.




You are correct, but you cannot teach elite speed. You either have it or don't, that is something that Ginn possesses. I am not defending his screwups, but I don't think we should just give him away. I think he deserves one more shot.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:43 pm 
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dolphinjim wrote:
Intelligent, knowledgeable football fans know we should keep Ginn. The rest? Well, you know! :yay:


Your right Senor Knowledgeable, we do know because Tuna/Ireland/Sparano already told us ... they're shopping him.

I'm actually rootin' for ole Teddy because he's a Dolphin & we sure need the help.

Without taking sides the future is clear ... if Teddy doesn't produce more value than some future prospect, "The Turk" will take his roster spot. Tick! Tick! Tick! Sooner?? Later?? That's what's on the minds of Tuna/Ireland/Sparano, just like every coach with every player.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:02 am 
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You can't actually teach speed. You can make a guy run a 4.4 instead of a 4.5 but the difference is so minor that it doesn't matter.

Ginn had so many chances to make plays but he hasn't. If you think that he can still stretch the field is beyond belief. Okay, he has speed, but, if everyone knows that he can't catch then why even cover him? Ginn is expendable and I wish that everyone would stop making so much of his speed because at the end of the day he only uses it to head out of bounds.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:35 am 
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hallphin wrote:
Rich wrote:
dolphinjim wrote:
Intelligent, knowledgeable football fans know we should keep Ginn. The rest? Well, you know! :yay:


I think we should keep Ginn unless we get a great deal for him.

But I guess your stance is, if people don't agree with your OPINION, they are idiots, correct?


that is rich. pot, meet kettle


And when you look up hallphin in the dictionary, here is what it reads:

hallphin:

1. individual who brings nothing to the forums and only posts when he feels the need to take potshots at other posters
2. a waste of time
3. officiall ignored

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:37 am 
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nbrewer22 wrote:
Iowafin wrote:
dolphinjim wrote:
LMFAO!!!!! Speed training????? That is your response???? Let me ask you this, have you ever seen a college recruit run let's say a 4.8 and then through "speed training" when he gets in the NFL he runs a 4.3????? :)

One more time....

Wow.


You're not born running a 4.3
You train. It's taught. It's learned. Thus, speed can be coached.




You are correct, but you cannot teach elite speed. You either have it or don't, that is something that Ginn possesses. I am not defending his screwups, but I don't think we should just give him away. I think he deserves one more shot.


Agree here. You cannot teach elite speed. Anquan Boldin will never run a 4.3. Neither will Brandon Marshall for that matter.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:48 am 
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I think the factors we all should look at are value over anything else...

Ginn will not reap great value, certainly not as great as a Camarillo or Bess...

I think right now Camarillo is the hotest WR for trade bait, he has huge potential, and a decent contract that most teams would welcome.
Bess is in his final contract year, so teams would want some ind of extension from him. I also see us wanting more for him..

Personally if you asked me who the WR's should be I would say Hartline - Bess - Camarillo based on what they have proven up to this point, Ginn is # 5 easy. The biggest factor of this all is how our coaches do things..

Hartline - WR, Special teams
Ginn - WR, Special temas
Bess - WR, Special teams
Camarillo - WR


So it seems Camarillo is the odd man out... Gona hate watching him turn into the next Welker on another team....

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:29 am 
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nbrewer22 wrote:
Iowafin wrote:
dolphinjim wrote:
LMFAO!!!!! Speed training????? That is your response???? Let me ask you this, have you ever seen a college recruit run let's say a 4.8 and then through "speed training" when he gets in the NFL he runs a 4.3????? :)

One more time....

Wow.


You're not born running a 4.3
You train. It's taught. It's learned. Thus, speed can be coached.




You are correct, but you cannot teach elite speed..


That I can agree with.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:39 am 
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And that is EXACLTY my point. You can't teach ELITE speed, and Ginn has it. You don't get rid of that, you find ways to use it.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:13 pm 
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dolphinjim wrote:
And that is EXACLTY my point. You can't teach ELITE speed, and Ginn has it. You don't get rid of that, you find ways to use it.


I and the Dolphins front office beg to differ. It doesn't matter how fast you are. If you can't catch and are more afraid of the football than you are getting hit, go elsewhere.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:25 pm 
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dolphinjim wrote:
And that is EXACLTY my point. You can't teach ELITE speed, and Ginn has it. You don't get rid of that, you find ways to use it.


I agree Jim but, how many ways haven't we tried in the last 3 years? I liked Ginn but he certainly didn't help his case to stay in Miami. Maybe he just didn't wanna play here.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:05 pm 
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Rich,

And how is that different from you. never mind, you dont get it.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:05 pm 
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Odin says otherwise. You're right though. The upper management should have givin him one last shot.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:33 pm 
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10acjed wrote:
I think the factors we all should look at are value over anything else...

Ginn will not reap great value, certainly not as great as a Camarillo or Bess...

I think right now Camarillo is the hotest WR for trade bait, he has huge potential, and a decent contract that most teams would welcome.
Bess is in his final contract year, so teams would want some ind of extension from him. I also see us wanting more for him..

Personally if you asked me who the WR's should be I would say Hartline - Bess - Camarillo based on what they have proven up to this point, Ginn is # 5 easy. The biggest factor of this all is how our coaches do things..

Hartline - WR, Special teams
Ginn - WR, Special temas
Bess - WR, Special teams
Camarillo - WR


So it seems Camarillo is the odd man out... Gona hate watching him turn into the next Welker on another team....


I wouldn't be to sure of that....I'm sorry but a guy that had 50 catches and no drops shouldn't be the odd man out!. there will be a roster spot for him


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:07 pm 
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paydurt wrote:
10acjed wrote:
I think the factors we all should look at are value over anything else...

Ginn will not reap great value, certainly not as great as a Camarillo or Bess...

I think right now Camarillo is the hotest WR for trade bait, he has huge potential, and a decent contract that most teams would welcome.
Bess is in his final contract year, so teams would want some ind of extension from him. I also see us wanting more for him..

Personally if you asked me who the WR's should be I would say Hartline - Bess - Camarillo based on what they have proven up to this point, Ginn is # 5 easy. The biggest factor of this all is how our coaches do things..

Hartline - WR, Special teams
Ginn - WR, Special temas
Bess - WR, Special teams
Camarillo - WR


So it seems Camarillo is the odd man out... Gona hate watching him turn into the next Welker on another team....


I wouldn't be to sure of that....I'm sorry but a guy that had 50 catches and no drops shouldn't be the odd man out!. there will be a roster spot for him


Considering Ginn was traded, I don't think that scenario applies any more.
Marshall, Camarillo, Bess, Hartline, White, Rookie/Grice-Mullen

That'll more than likely be your receiving corps next year.

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