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 Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering? 
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Post Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Dion Jordan could be the player who ultimately decides General Manager Jeff Ireland’s fate. Irleand took a big gamble by trading up for the No. 3 pick and using it on a talented but raw defensive end instead of a sure-thing left tackle. Most No. 3 overall picks are starters from Game 1, but Jordan is expected to be a third down specialist behind starters Cameron Wake and Olivier Vernon. Jordan began training camp on the injured list and has been slowly seeing his workload increase. Jordan finally broke out at Wednesday’s practice but it was at the expense of left tackle Jonathan Martin. After registering a sack in Monday’s scrimmage, Jordan had two sacks Wednesday night. Both times he blew past Martin. - See more at:

http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thedaily ... 5h8nW.dpuf


Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:02 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Makchell wrote:
Dion Jordan could be the player who ultimately decides General Manager Jeff Ireland’s fate. Irleand took a big gamble by trading up for the No. 3 pick and using it on a talented but raw defensive end instead of a sure-thing left tackle.



Now I know they say you cant have too many pass rushers, but of you cant protect your QB from pass rush what exactly will having a great defense do?
We went through this crap with JJ, Wanny, Satan etc. Looked over the stats, top 10 defense year after year, avg offense... Look where it got us.

I think this point gets lost a lot. I think Jordan is an absolute stud DE, he is going to make an impact this year, and probably can eclipse the great JT if he plays here his whole career here..
But...
We drafted a DE in round one of 2010, we drafted a DE in round 3 of the 2012 draft, we have Wake who rates out as the best 4-3 DE in the NFL. I did not see DE as being the position we needed to trade up for.

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Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:20 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
My biggest issue with the original post is:

"and using it on a talented but raw defensive end instead of a sure-thing left tackle."

Since when is anyone, at any position a sure thing?


Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:28 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
There have been a lot of top 10 tackle busts in the last decade.

Martin has to be decent, not spectacular. Don't let your QB get crushed and I'm satisfied. If Miami decides they have to money and want to spend it on an upgrade next year then fine.

I've already read one guy suggest Miami should look at trading for Branden Albert again...wow.


Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:32 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
How about putting a different DE in and see if he schools Martin. lol


Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:40 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
I'm concerned about Jonathan Martin. There were a lot of people who felt he deserved a shot at the left side... there were even people who argued he played better on the left side than the right side.

The metrics didn't bare this out at all. He graded out worse in 4 games as a left tackle than he did in 12 games as a right tackle, and he graded out pretty badly as a right tackle.

It seems the kid has worked hard to build up his strength, but when a rookie who is recovering from an injury, playing a new position and having his first practice is beating you to the outside for sacks, there's gotta be concern.

He better get it going pretty quickly, otherwise all these weapons we brought for Tannehill and all of Tannehill's work in the offseason will be for nothing.

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Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:42 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Makchell wrote:
How about putting a different DE in and see if he schools Martin. lol


Olivier Vernon has been having a pretty good camp against Martin as well.

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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Olivier Vernon has been having a pretty good camp against Martin as well.

Good point. OK, put a different LT in and see how he does. lol


Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:44 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
We drafted a DE in round 1 2010, round 3 in 2012, and round 1 in 2013. We also have the best 4-3 DE in the NFL already on the roster.
No way to convince me trading up to draft a DE was a good move considering the needs... Not knocking Jordan at all tho, just saying this team had other needs it should have addressed.

Martin stunk it up last year filling in for Jake, and Jake was injured and struggled with the zone scheme.

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Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:45 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
10acjed wrote:
We drafted a DE in round 1 2010, round 3 in 2012, and round 1 in 2013. We also have the best 4-3 DE in the NFL already on the roster.

No way to convince me trading up to draft a DE was a good move considering the needs...


Defensive end was a major need for this team. This defense has had problems getting off the field on third downs in large part because teams are able to protect the QB on third down and coverage breaks down.

Pass rusher is a premiere position and having just one guy with double digit sacks is not a recipe for success.

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Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:47 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
No way to convince me trading up to draft a DE was a good move considering the needs

There were times last year where the QB could have had a drink of coffee in the pocket. Drafting a stud DE is also like drafting a stud DB. He makes the secondary better. Take Carlos Rogers of the 9ers, he was a probowl DB 2 years ago. Once, Smith got hurt last year, he was getting picked on and he is now their nickel back. A good pass rush makes the DBs look good.


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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
What if we just made Dion Jordan the LT?;)


Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:58 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Rich wrote:
10acjed wrote:
We drafted a DE in round 1 2010, round 3 in 2012, and round 1 in 2013. We also have the best 4-3 DE in the NFL already on the roster.

No way to convince me trading up to draft a DE was a good move considering the needs...


Defensive end was a major need for this team. This defense has had problems getting off the field on third downs in large part because teams are able to protect the QB on third down and coverage breaks down.

Pass rusher is a premiere position and having just one guy with double digit sacks is not a recipe for success.


I agree here. It's a passing league and the rules have changed to the point where the corners can't cover without getting a flag thrown. The only way to stop the pass these days is to get to the QB.

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Last edited by TommyNoleFin on Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:19 am, edited 3 times in total.



Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:05 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
God I loathe Martin.

He's going to undermine everything.


Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:07 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
I'm concerned about Jonathan Martin.

I am nervous as heck going into the season with the LT spot in serious limbo.

Richmond Webb lives around the corner from me, I am about to ask him to come out of retirement.

Make no mistake about it, this IS an issue. We are well past "hoping" Martin protects Tannehill, he MUST protect him and the first sense of struggle in a live preseason game I am trading for Alberts.

Give up next year's number two, I don't care, just get a starting NFL caliber Left tackle to protect our QB.


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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Finhead34 wrote:
Give up next year's number two, I don't care, just get a starting NFL caliber Left tackle to protect our QB.


I'd at least give Martin the preseason to see what is going on. If you trade for Albert and then can't re-sign at the end of the year you waste a valuable trade chip. As much as the Dolphins are going for it this year I don't think its time to make panic trades.


Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:33 pm
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
meanwhile Michael Vick's blindside is just fine. :grin:

Quote:
tommy lawlor "Rookie Lane Johnson isn’t getting much attention recently. That’s a good sign. You generally don’t notice OL unless something has gone wrong. Johnson is on pace to be the starting RT."


Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:30 pm
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Jammer, I did not suggest a "panic" trade. I said the first sign of him faltering during preseason you consider making the move. Left tackle is THE one of the most important positions and Miami and Tannehill can ill afford to have a chump there protecting his blind side. He is a good player, but perhaps better suited at a guard slot.

I am not saying do it now, but rest assure a guy like Albert will be gone if another team has a left tackle injury or if they get struggling play. Albert is a fall back option, but IF it is necessary, you have to consider it and if they did sign him, they will come up with a salary cap friendly deal I am sure to do a multi -year deal. Let's see what is happening, but Martin struggling so much already is a concern. Hope he proves me and everyone else wrong and starts hunkering down.


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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
I'm not ready to panic yet. We haven't even played the first pre-season game. Give him a few games under his belt and just relax a little. It's still early guys.

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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
If he drafted a LT, we'd still be hearing it every day about drafting YET ANOTHER offensive lineman.

I said before the draft that I'd rather see some quality over quantity and Ireland screwed Oakland over with that trade.

I have no issue with how Ireland played it. Now let's see the results


Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:16 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Finhead34 wrote:
Jammer, I did not suggest a "panic" trade. I said the first sign of him faltering during preseason you consider making the move. Left tackle is THE one of the most important positions and Miami and Tannehill can ill afford to have a chump there protecting his blind side. He is a good player, but perhaps better suited at a guard slot.

I am not saying do it now, but rest assure a guy like Albert will be gone if another team has a left tackle injury or if they get struggling play. Albert is a fall back option, but IF it is necessary, you have to consider it and if they did sign him, they will come up with a salary cap friendly deal I am sure to do a multi -year deal. Let's see what is happening, but Martin struggling so much already is a concern. Hope he proves me and everyone else wrong and starts hunkering down.


I just wouldn't do it at the first sign of trouble. Give him 4 preseason games. Again, all he has to be is average and not Colombo. Hopefully Tannehill's ability to run will save him a few sacks.

Lets not forget that a lot of what we see in training camp are controlled situations so its harder to judge how it will shake out in an actual game.

In terms of salary cap friendly deals, Albert wasn't willing take one during the draft and now has even more leverage. I think that ship has sailed. If Martin stinks after 4 games I bet Miami picks someone up on the waiver wire.


Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:49 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
I hears ya Jammer, but just IMO, the left tackle spot needs to be above average as protecting Miami's QB at a high level against the opponents BEST pass rushers will be a havoc to our offense.

Hey, I hope your right about controlled scrimmages and all, but these signs of Martin getting beat fairly regularly is a concern.

Perhaps these are a few mechanics he can still fix.


Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:19 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Makchell wrote:
No way to convince me trading up to draft a DE was a good move considering the needs

There were times last year where the QB could have had a drink of coffee in the pocket. Drafting a stud DE is also like drafting a stud DB. He makes the secondary better. Take Carlos Rogers of the 9ers, he was a probowl DB 2 years ago. Once, Smith got hurt last year, he was getting picked on and he is now their nickel back. A good pass rush makes the DBs look good.



Hope everyone is right.
I am not trying to act like I know all there is about football, and I know the importance of a good defense.
I just keep reading how bad our o-line looks, and I read that last season, and all off season.

Thats all I am saying, its obviously still a problem. Hopefully it is just because we have possibly the best front 7 in the NFL.
We have a strong chance to be the best D in the league. But we had that in 2002.

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Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:22 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Give him the preseason to work on whatever issues he's got. If he's still struggling at the end of the preseason, then do whatever you have to do to get a solid replacement in before the season starts. LT isn't a position you can mess around with and have a successful offense.

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Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:16 pm
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Hope everyone is right.
I am not trying to act like I know all there is about football, and I know the importance of a good defense.
I just keep reading how bad our o-line looks, and I read that last season, and all off season.

Thats all I am saying, its obviously still a problem. Hopefully it is just because we have possibly the best front 7 in the NFL.
We have a strong chance to be the best D in the league. But we had that in 2002.


I don't know everything either, but a "stud" DE is like drafting a stud DB too. 2002 was a long time ago, but we had a stud LT and we have been losers as well. QB play will decide the OL, RB, and Wrs....they always do.


Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:11 pm
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Makchell wrote:
Dion Jordan could be the player who ultimately decides General Manager Jeff Ireland’s fate.


Lol absolutely not. Ryan Tannehill for obvious reasons. If he busts, so does Ireland. It's that simple. He rolled the dice on Tannehill, and it's all up to him now. Dion definitely holds some weight up there though, but the 1st round rookie quarterback is "THE" guy who Ireland will ride or die with.

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Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:15 pm
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Lol absolutely not. Ryan Tannehill for obvious reasons. If he busts, so does Ireland. It's that simple. He rolled the dice on Tannehill, and it's all up to him now. Dion definitely holds some weight up there though, but the 1st round rookie quarterback is "THE" guy who Ireland will ride or die with


You quoted me, but I didn't say that.


Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:17 pm
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Makchell wrote:
Lol absolutely not. Ryan Tannehill for obvious reasons. If he busts, so does Ireland. It's that simple. He rolled the dice on Tannehill, and it's all up to him now. Dion definitely holds some weight up there though, but the 1st round rookie quarterback is "THE" guy who Ireland will ride or die with


You quoted me, but I didn't say that.


Yeah, lol I know bro. You posted the quote from the PBP so that is what I was referring to.

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Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:27 pm
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Even if Martin is a problem, it's a problem for a season and will be fixed next off season, worst case.

Dion Jordan is supposed to be a once in a blue moon pass rusher that you won't get another shot at, and that will be wrecking havoc and winning you games for a decade.

I don't care how bad Martin is this year....Short of Martin ending Tannehill's career, Jordan was the right decision and it's not even debatable to me.


Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:35 pm
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Phins Rock wrote:
Even if Martin is a problem, it's a problem for a season and will be fixed next off season, worst case.

Dion Jordan is supposed to be a once in a blue moon pass rusher that you won't get another shot at, and that will be wrecking havoc and winning you games for a decade.

I don't care how bad Martin is this year....Short of Martin ending Tannehill's career, Jordan was the right decision and it's not even debatable to me.


The scouting report on Clowney is better than Jordan though, I never heard anything about Dion being a "can't miss" prospect as a pass rusher.

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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Even if Martin is a problem, it's a problem for a season and will be fixed next off season, worst case.

Dion Jordan is supposed to be a once in a blue moon pass rusher that you won't get another shot at, and that will be wrecking havoc and winning you games for a decade.

I don't care how bad Martin is this year....Short of Martin ending Tannehill's career, Jordan was the right decision and it's not even debatable to me.


The scouting report on Clowney is better than Jordan though, I never heard anything about Dion being a "can't miss" prospect as a pass rusher.


So you're planning on having the #1 overall pick to draft Clowney?


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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Phins Rock wrote:
So you're planning on having the #1 overall pick to draft Clowney?


Oh yes, of course.

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Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:57 am
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
Clowney will never live up to his hype.


Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
swerve13 wrote:
Clowney will never live up to his hype.


http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-footba ... h-carolina


Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:46 pm
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
That's nothing.....me & Rich can do that! :fart:


Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:53 pm
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
10acjed wrote:
Makchell wrote:
No way to convince me trading up to draft a DE was a good move considering the needs

There were times last year where the QB could have had a drink of coffee in the pocket. Drafting a stud DE is also like drafting a stud DB. He makes the secondary better. Take Carlos Rogers of the 9ers, he was a probowl DB 2 years ago. Once, Smith got hurt last year, he was getting picked on and he is now their nickel back. A good pass rush makes the DBs look good.



Hope everyone is right.
I am not trying to act like I know all there is about football, and I know the importance of a good defense.
I just keep reading how bad our o-line looks, and I read that last season, and all off season.

Thats all I am saying, its obviously still a problem. Hopefully it is just because we have possibly the best front 7 in the NFL.
We have a strong chance to be the best D in the league. But we had that in 2002.

Just my 2 cents but I think they're planning on Tannehill making a big stride this year and unloading the ball a lot faster. That, along with a stout defense, will keep the team in a lot of games. I think most people would agree a 10-6 finish would be a successful year for this young team.


Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:56 pm
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
I'm happy with 9-7


Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:18 pm
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Post Re: Dion Jordan excelling or Jonathan Martin faltering?
If you want to beat the Patriots, there is only one way to do it: you have to stop Tom Brady.

Everything this team should do is to do whatever it takes to stop Tom Brady, because stopping Tom Brady is the single largest obstacle the team has to winning the division. You can score all the points you want. If you don't stop Tom Brady, he'll throw up a 50-burger and just score more than you.

Having more than one pass rush specialist is crucial so long as Tom Brady is the QB for any team in the AFC East. Drafting a guy who can (presumably) complement Wake was a great move and an absolutely necessary one if we're to have a hope at beating Tom Brady.

It's all about beating Tom Brady.

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