View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri Oct 24, 2014 5:40 am



Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
 Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2 
Author Message
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:48 pm
Posts: 5641
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
jammer wrote:
I think a major criticism from last year was he tried to force big passes leading to 3 and outs and turnovers. You might be correct in that they are preaching more check down options to him.

Why they don't have Hartline and Gibson running deep routes is beyond me. They seem more apt to making tougher catches if Tannehill is shorting his deep throws.


I don't remember that though. What I do remember is him simply being off-target with his deep balls.

All I know is I can practically see the leash Philbin/Sherman are holding from the sideline.

_________________
Image


Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:04 am
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21598
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Rock Sexton wrote:
All I know is I can practically see the leash Philbin/Sherman are holding from the sideline.


When your QB has an average time to throw of 2.3 seconds (and the rest of the league has an average time of 2.8), the leash is standing right in front of him. All 5 of them.

_________________
Image


Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:42 am
Profile
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:48 pm
Posts: 5641
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Rich wrote:
When your QB has an average time to throw of 2.3 seconds (and the rest of the league has an average time of 2.8), the leash is standing right in front of him. All 5 of them.


Wasn't that 2.3 seconds the average time he had on the sacks?

_________________
Image


Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:48 am
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21598
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
When your QB has an average time to throw of 2.3 seconds (and the rest of the league has an average time of 2.8), the leash is standing right in front of him. All 5 of them.


Wasn't that 2.3 seconds the average time he had on the sacks?


Quote:
The Dolphins’ quarterback faced pressure on 17 of his 46 drop-backs, but the average pressure came in just 2.3 seconds. To give some context, the average time to throw in the NFL this season is just under 2.8 seconds and only 37% of passes have been thrown in less than 2.3 seconds


Not sacks, pressures.

_________________
Image


Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:57 am
Profile
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:48 pm
Posts: 5641
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Rich wrote:
Not sacks, pressures.


I'm not going to sit here and say the O-line isn't at fault, because they share most of the blame (Martin, Jerry, Clabo). Alas, the difference between 2.3 and 2.8 in real time is pretty quick, I'm talking if you blink, you'd miss it.

What further compounds our protection issues is the fact that we have a bunch of RB's and TE's who aren't worth a darn in pass pro to get Tannehill that extra .5 or more ..... and Tanny feel for the pocket is questionable at times, which doesn't all him to buy himself that .5 or more.

_________________
Image


Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:08 pm
Profile
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 5839
Location: Topsfield, MA
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
If we're bringing up a lot of these issues in fan forum, the beat writers are tweeting the same, and even player interviews are hinting at changes then I hope it will be implemented going forward.

I don't know about personnel changes but I expect to see some things that keep the defenses guessing (pistol formation runs, moving the pocket, roll outs, designed HB screens, different WRs running deep patterns, etc.).

Miami has scored 23 points or more in 4 of 5 games against their most difficult opponents (defensively at least). If they keep that up, implement some changes (see above) and have a healthy defense it should result in 10 wins. I said way back when the offense has the potential to score 24-27 points per game and they've done it so far without being too efficient.


Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:35 pm
Profile
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 3:56 pm
Posts: 3093
Location: MA.
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
Not sacks, pressures.


I'm not going to sit here and say the O-line isn't at fault, because they share most of the blame (Martin, Jerry, Clabo). Alas, the difference between 2.3 and 2.8 in real time is pretty quick, I'm talking if you blink, you'd miss it.

What further compounds our protection issues is the fact that we have a bunch of RB's and TE's who aren't worth a darn in pass pro to get Tannehill that extra .5 or more ..... and Tanny feel for the pocket is questionable at times, which doesn't all him to buy himself that .5 or more.

thats how i see it...if the running back lets a guy blow right by that kills your average...and i bet that has happened here more than the average.....tanny is not helping...last year they went to putting him on the move more and it helped...where did that go


Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:43 pm
Profile
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:48 pm
Posts: 5641
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Kev1321 wrote:
thats how i see it...if the running back lets a guy blow right by that kills your average...and i bet that has happened here more than the average.....tanny is not helping...last year they went to putting him on the move more and it helped...where did that go


It's happened quite a bit.

Some would argue moving Tannehill won't help because of who our tackles are ..... ok well then why not put Yeatman in there as the TE and 6th blocker?

Run our 3-wide's out of that. The threat of Tannehill taking off from the pocket SHOULD be there, but we're not forcing teams to respect it. It's a joke. It's scary how little we're giving opposing defenses to think about. Right now, they just sit on the short stuff and only blitz when they absolutely have to.

_________________
Image


Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:47 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21598
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Rock Sexton wrote:
and Tanny feel for the pocket is questionable at times


My response to that is... WHAT POCKET??

Every quarterback in the NFL has instances in which he holds the ball because there is good coverage or because he misses an open receiver or because he is trying to let a play develop a little longer. But somehow Tannehill is expected to overcome all of the other issues, which are legion, and demonstrate this terrific pocket awareness when there is no consistency in the type of pocket he is getting.

It's not realistic, especially for a 2nd year QB.

_________________
Image


Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:50 pm
Profile
Phinfever Global Moderator
Phinfever Global Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 7532
Location: Massachusetts
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Rich wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
and Tanny feel for the pocket is questionable at times


My response to that is... WHAT POCKET??

Every quarterback in the NFL has instances in which he holds the ball because there is good coverage or because he misses an open receiver or because he is trying to let a play develop a little longer. But somehow Tannehill is expected to overcome all of the other issues, which are legion, and demonstrate this terrific pocket awareness when there is no consistency in the type of pocket he is getting.

It's not realistic, especially for a 2nd year QB.


:awe: Verbatim what I said on phinfever live after the game Sunday.

I'm tired of Tannehill getting blamed for this.


Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:16 pm
Profile
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:48 pm
Posts: 5641
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Rich wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
and Tanny feel for the pocket is questionable at times


My response to that is... WHAT POCKET??

Every quarterback in the NFL has instances in which he holds the ball because there is good coverage or because he misses an open receiver or because he is trying to let a play develop a little longer. But somehow Tannehill is expected to overcome all of the other issues, which are legion, and demonstrate this terrific pocket awareness when there is no consistency in the type of pocket he is getting.

It's not realistic, especially for a 2nd year QB.


So every single pass play the pocket has instantly collapsed is the story you're trying to portray to me. If so, I vehemently disagree with you. How much room and how much time does he need to be able to functionally climb the pocket or slide a step?

I'm not even expecting terrific pocket awareness. I'm expecting some semblance of functionality in order to help alleviate the obviously poor O-line and the garbage RB's and TE's. I haven't really seen very much recognition from him in that regard. At this stage you'd think the guy would already feel where the pressure was going to come from based on what he's seeing in the game.

_________________
Image


Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:38 pm
Profile
Phinfever Blog Writer - Thursdays
Phinfever Blog Writer - Thursdays

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:47 am
Posts: 5880
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
There are times when he barely gets his feet set. There are others where he doesn't have time to go to his 2nd guy and then there are times where he stops looking and starts to wander into a sack. If they're going to achieve a higher level of play, it will be because of the plays like he made on 4th and 12 last week. The pressure came and he avoided the sack and rolled out, found Gibson for 40yds.


Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:55 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21598
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Rock Sexton wrote:
So every single pass play the pocket has instantly collapsed is the story you're trying to portray to me.


Yes, that is exactly what I meant when I said there is no consistency in the type of pocket he gets.

You sure have a way to twist what the other person is saying and run with it to make your arguments.

_________________
Image


Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:36 am
Profile
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:48 pm
Posts: 5641
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Rich wrote:
Yes, that is exactly what I meant when I said there is no consistency in the type of pocket he gets.

You sure have a way to twist what the other person is saying and run with it to make your arguments.


Kind've like when you said that I was expecting "terrific pocket awareness".

The point is, he could do a better job on his part. I'm not saying it would solve all of the problems as he is working with a substandard O-line and a really piss poor RB/TE grouping.

The pocket is inconsistent, that's fine .... that still doesn't fully explain his lapses.

_________________
Image


Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:35 pm
Profile
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor
2013 Phinfever VIP Donor
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:22 am
Posts: 1480
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Hate to say it, but I have to go with Rock here. The majority of sacks I would put on the lack of blocking by OL and backs, but Tannehill has to learn how to avoid some of these sacks. He is great at throwing on the run.

I thought Philbin's offense was going to be one that got the ball off so quickly, less would be asked from the OL, so that an even an average OL player would be sufficient.

I still want to know why I don't see more designed roll outs for Tannehill.

_________________
Don't give up. Don't ever give up." - Jim Valvano


Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:41 pm
Profile WWW
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:48 pm
Posts: 5641
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
rodneyfaile wrote:
Hate to say it, but I have to go with Rock here. The majority of sacks I would put on the lack of blocking by OL and backs, but Tannehill has to learn how to avoid some of these sacks. He is great at throwing on the run.

I thought Philbin's offense was going to be one that got the ball off so quickly, less would be asked from the OL, so that an even an average OL player would be sufficient.

I still want to know why I don't see more designed roll outs for Tannehill.


I get the impression that Philbin and Co. are going to continue to run things as is because they're trying to implement "their system" and they do not want to deviate from it. It's a very hard-headed approach.

_________________
Image


Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:58 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21598
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Rock Sexton wrote:
Kind've like when you said that I was expecting "terrific pocket awareness".


I'm so sorry man if I twisted your words like that.

I keep looking back and I have a hard time finding where I ever said YOU said that, though.

Maybe you could help me out.

You know, so we can keep the discussion apples to apples. You quoted me directly and then twisted what I said. So show me where I quoted you directly and twisted what you said.

Please... my computer must be having a serious glitch, because I'm just not finding it. Help a brotha out.

:hithead:

_________________
Image


Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:40 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21598
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
rodneyfaile wrote:
Hate to say it, but I have to go with Rock here. The majority of sacks I would put on the lack of blocking by OL and backs, but Tannehill has to learn how to avoid some of these sacks. He is great at throwing on the run.

I thought Philbin's offense was going to be one that got the ball off so quickly, less would be asked from the OL, so that an even an average OL player would be sufficient.

I still want to know why I don't see more designed roll outs for Tannehill.


According to Pro Football Focus, at last count Tannehill was responsible for 3 or 4 sacks all season, which is 16% of the sacks we've given up. The way they "blame" the QB for the sack is if the offensive line got good blocking and the QB failed to get rid of the ball.

Tyson Clabo is allowing more than a sack per game and Jonathan Martin is allowing a sack per game.

So I have a hard time even focusing on Tannehill's pocket awareness because all QBs at some point hold the ball and are sacked because of coverage sacks.

Maybe he isn't throwing the ball because no one is open.

Maybe the play that was called is a deep shot and he is holding the ball longer because the route is about to develop.

I like that Tannehill is trying to hang tough in the pocket and not forcing the ball. If he were running around like RG3 and getting injured, we'd be calling for him to change his game. If he were forcing the ball, we'd declare that he can't read defenses and is a bust.

If the biggest concern is that he occassionally holds onto the ball too long, I'm glad for that.

_________________
Image


Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:57 pm
Profile
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:48 pm
Posts: 5641
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Rich wrote:

I'm so sorry man if I twisted your words like that.

I keep looking back and I have a hard time finding where I ever said YOU said that, though.

Maybe you could help me out.

You know, so we can keep the discussion apples to apples. You quoted me directly and then twisted what I said. So show me where I quoted you directly and twisted what you said.

Please... my computer must be having a serious glitch, because I'm just not finding it. Help a brotha out.

:hithead:


Why are you getting so hostile? I'm just having a conversation with you.

Here's your comment, which was implying that anyone who felt he could improve in the pocket was expecting "terrific pocket awareness".

Rich wrote:

My response to that is... WHAT POCKET??

Every quarterback in the NFL has instances in which he holds the ball because there is good coverage or because he misses an open receiver or because he is trying to let a play develop a little longer. But somehow Tannehill is expected to overcome all of the other issues, which are legion, and demonstrate this terrific pocket awareness when there is no consistency in the type of pocket he is getting.

It's not realistic, especially for a 2nd year QB.


Again, I'm not putting Tanny at the culprit of most of this. But I've heard the same reservations from other posters, former players, and sports columnist/personalities. I happen to agree with them from what I've seen during games. Standing tall in the pocket just for the sake of doing so will not automatically make him a better passer in the future.

_________________
Image


Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:43 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 21598
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Rock Sexton wrote:
Why are you getting so hostile?


I'm not getting hostile, just simply pointing out (again) your propensity to specifically and intentionally misinterpret what is said, then turning around and claiming the same thing is being done to you when it is not.

I'd rather have an honest discussion than have my words twisted. I don't think that is too much to ask.

Quote:
Here's your comment, which was implying that anyone who felt he could improve in the pocket was expecting "terrific pocket awareness".


I'm fully aware of the comment I made. I did not specifically attribute you making this type of comment and yet that was your way of excusing yourself for doing it to me. As for implying anything, you're reading too much into it.

I think he can improve in the pocket. I've said as much on my blog. You should know as you usually reply when I post it.

However, this is such a miniscule issue right now compared to the other issues leading to sacks, that I don't see why it is even being brought up as much as it is. It is typical kneejerk arm chair quarterback stuff.

It's like saying there are so many problems in our society and propping up movies with bad words as an example.

Quote:
Standing tall in the pocket just for the sake of doing so will not automatically make him a better passer in the future.


How do you know he is doing it just for the sake of doing so?

And how is running at the first site of trouble going to make him a better passer in the future?

He's not letting the pressure faze him. I think that is a terrific sign and something that will help him grow more than getting happy feet when there is pressure.

Whether he runs or not, if this offensive line isn't fixed, he is going to get killed and it will stunt his growth.

_________________
Image


Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:06 pm
Profile
Phinfever Legend
Phinfever Legend
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:48 pm
Posts: 5641
Post Re: Dolphins and Jets tied for 2nd place at 3-2
Rich wrote:
I'm fully aware of the comment I made. I did not specifically attribute you making this type of comment and yet that was your way of excusing yourself for doing it to me. As for implying anything, you're reading too much into it.


How could I not be included in that statement when you were directly taking issue with people who have made comments about his pocket presence?

Quote:
I think he can improve in the pocket. I've said as much on my blog. You should know as you usually reply when I post it.

However, this is such a miniscule issue right now compared to the other issues leading to sacks, that I don't see why it is even being brought up as much as it is. It is typical kneejerk arm chair quarterback stuff.

It's like saying there are so many problems in our society and propping up movies with bad words as an example.


Has absolutely nothing to do with knee jerk reaction, which would be if someone were to place the sole blame of the sack problem on Tanny. I don't consider it minuscule because by him improving in that department somewhat, it could help to alleviate some (not all) of the problems we're having upfront, whereby providing more opportunities on offense.

Quote:
How do you know he is doing it just for the sake of doing so?

And how is running at the first site of trouble going to make him a better passer in the future?

He's not letting the pressure faze him. I think that is a terrific sign and something that will help him grow more than getting happy feet when there is pressure.

Whether he runs or not, if this offensive line isn't fixed, he is going to get killed and it will stunt his growth.


I'm not talking about running at first sight. I'm talking about all the aspects of moving in, out, and around the pocket. Simple side-steps or stepping up. Yes, he's standing tall, but too often he's resigned to just stand there with lead feet. After 5 games now into 2013 behind this line, the guy should have a pretty good idea where he's getting pressured on a routine basis. I don't see that "feel" yet, certainly not on a consistent basis.

I happen to wonder if he's being coached that way. He was never that QB at Texas A&M so to not take advantage of his athleticism with some semblance of regularity is a waste of a skill set that this team could use right now.

If people assume he's going to get hurt breaking the pocket, what then do you think is gonna happen if things stay the same with him getting sacked at this rate?

_________________
Image


Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:29 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2010 phpBB Group.
Designed by Coots & IamPZ - Phinfever.com.