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 MW Deep Ball 
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
jammer wrote:
DanRambo wrote:
The big picture is we are a developing football team. Have some darn confidence.


While I admire your confidence (and wish I shared it), the problem is they aren't developing. Its the same team we've seen since 2009 with a few tweaks. They'll finish around .500, can't close out games and have a tendency to choke on both sides of the ball.

They traded subpar QB play and a good ground game for average QB play and a bad ground game. They put around 20 points a game and rank in the bottom tier of the league in yard production. How is that much different, big picture, than what we've witnessed since 09?

The defense keeps the team in games but isn't as dominant as the hype.



On paper it doesn't look good, no, but to say we haven't had a chance in these football games would be incorrect. Not saying you did, just stating the fact. Difference is guys like Mike Wallace, Dion Jordan, Brent Grimes. Also players like Keller, Gibson, Patterson. Although hurt, unfortunately, they can provide HUGE upside. New guys to our system, and guys who I think will be big factors in our future.


Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:08 pm
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
jammer wrote:
While I admire your confidence (and wish I shared it), the problem is they aren't developing. Its the same team we've seen since 2009 with a few tweaks. They'll finish around .500, can't close out games and have a tendency to choke on both sides of the ball.

They traded subpar QB play and a good ground game for average QB play and a bad ground game. They put around 20 points a game and rank in the bottom tier of the league in yard production. How is that much different, big picture, than what we've witnessed since 09?

The defense keeps the team in games but isn't as dominant as the hype.


No doubt man. The "hopefuls" have been sellin' us the same story every year.

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Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:51 pm
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Season ain't over yet, Rock. Just in case you forgot.


Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:55 pm
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
DanRambo wrote:
Season ain't over yet, Rock. Just in case you forgot.



Yes....there is a remote possibility the team sees the playoffs. Not a realistic probability, but hope springs eternal. I see a 6-10 or 7-9 record again. Better than the 5-11 I predicted before the season, but not good enough considering the money spent to upgrade the team.

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Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:26 am
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
While we are not as bad as some of the posts suggest , the frustration is well deserved & most definitely earned. Mediocrity & playing down to an opponents level has become the norm for this team. Being almost out of it by late November & wishing for another regime change has become the standard. The off the field stuff is something that I never envisioned this franchise going thru.
You want optimism , check back every August , that is when it runs supreme here. Once reality sets in this time of year you can just copy & paste the comments from year to year.

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Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:40 am
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
DanRambo wrote:
Season ain't over yet


No doubt. If Miami goes 9-7 and Tannehill has big games (proving he is the guy) I will post a big crow eating apology to those who advised myself and others to hold on just a little longer.

The opportunity is there...but it has also been there almost every week this season. Put up or shut up time for this team.


Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:45 am
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Mike Wallace should have caught that last deep ball. Hit him in both hands, very catchable pass.

That's a $60 million play. Wallace is not a $60 million player.

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Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:18 am
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
jammer wrote:
IamPZ wrote:
Bullshit... I'm tired of the argument coming back on the 2nd year quarterback.

A $60 million veteran WR is supposed to bail out his young quarterback, he's supposed to make those tough catches, he's supposed to be the hero.

Mike Wallace is none of those things, he's a $60 million waste of money.


The QB is supposed to raise the play of his teammates. If it is the other way around you have the wrong the QB.


I suggest you look at Brady's current season. When he was surrounded by rookies and nobodies, that offense was pathetic. As soon as Gronk comes back, so does the old Brady.

It is a symbiotic relationship.

Every QB needs that receiver with a good catch radius. Rodgers has one, Brady has one, Manning has a couple.

Outside of Rishard Matthews, I don't see a receiver on this roster that has demonstrated that catch radius ability. Mike Wallace is certainly not that guy.

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Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:32 am
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Mike Wallace is certainly not that guy.

And that's sad. A 60mil mistake.


Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:02 pm
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Rich wrote:
I suggest you look at Brady's current season. When he was surrounded by rookies and nobodies, that offense was pathetic. As soon as Gronk comes back, so does the old Brady.

It is a symbiotic relationship.

Every QB needs that receiver with a good catch radius. Rodgers has one, Brady has one, Manning has a couple.

Outside of Rishard Matthews, I don't see a receiver on this roster that has demonstrated that catch radius ability. Mike Wallace is certainly not that guy.


Watched every single Patriots game this year and will be the first to concede that Brady has been let down by his receivers, a lot. His deep ball may be worse than Tannehill's rigth now. Even if he isn't the same Brady he has still made clutch plays with a crap offense. Now that Gronk is back his life is easier.

I realize the "QB raises teammates' play" comment is very general and can be picked apart. I also realize Tannehill has zero o-line, has suffered drops (at least 3 or 4 in the end zone) and has no ground game. But he's missing wide open deep throws and has some errant passes on key 2nd and 3rd down situations. He also barely uses his gift of speed to buy time or pick up first downs. If I'm asking for too much, well, 13 years of average at best QB play has messed with my patience. Trust me, I want Tannehill to be a top 10 QB yesterday, but he's leaving me shaking my head more often than "fist pumping."


Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:25 pm
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
But he's missing wide open deep throws and has some errant passes on key 2nd and 3rd down situations. He also barely uses his gift of speed to buy time or pick up first downs. If I'm asking for too much, well, 13 years of average at best QB play has messed with my patience. Trust me, I want Tannehill to be a top 10 QB yesterday, but he's leaving me shaking my head more often than "fist pumping."


:awe:


Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:27 pm
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
jammer wrote:
But he's missing wide open deep throws and has some errant passes on key 2nd and 3rd down situations. He also barely uses his gift of speed to buy time or pick up first downs. If I'm asking for too much, well, 13 years of average at best QB play has messed with my patience. Trust me, I want Tannehill to be a top 10 QB yesterday, but he's leaving me shaking my head more often than "fist pumping."


Well, some players take time to develop and they have to be developed by the right people.

Which of the coaches responsible for developing Tannehill inspires confidence in you?

The head coach that reads off flash cards in post game speeches? The offensive coordinator that would prefer to go with what doesn't work? Or is it the QB coach that is the son in law of the offensive coordinator and doesn't have much previous QB development experience?

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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Rich wrote:
Well, some players take time to develop and they have to be developed by the right people.

Which of the coaches responsible for developing Tannehill inspires confidence in you?

The head coach that reads off flash cards in post game speeches? The offensive coordinator that would prefer to go with what doesn't work? Or is it the QB coach that is the son in law of the offensive coordinator and doesn't have much previous QB development experience?


Very valid points.

I said a while back that if Ross likes Tannehill and wants him to succeed then get a GM who will hire a QB guru HC or OC. Stop farting around with things that don't work.

If Tannehill isn't the guy then find the same or different guru who can build a draft pick into the franchise player Miami needs.

I still have a lot of hope for Tannehill. He makes some sensational throws and is tough as nails. But I don't want to spend 5 years finding out he truly is mediocre.


Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:33 pm
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
jammer wrote:
Rich wrote:
Well, some players take time to develop and they have to be developed by the right people.

Which of the coaches responsible for developing Tannehill inspires confidence in you?

The head coach that reads off flash cards in post game speeches? The offensive coordinator that would prefer to go with what doesn't work? Or is it the QB coach that is the son in law of the offensive coordinator and doesn't have much previous QB development experience?


Very valid points.

I said a while back that if Ross likes Tannehill and wants him to succeed then get a GM who will hire a QB guru HC or OC. Stop farting around with things that don't work.

If Tannehill isn't the guy then find the same or different guru who can build a draft pick into the franchise player Miami needs.

I still have a lot of hope for Tannehill. He makes some sensational throws and is tough as nails. But I don't want to spend 5 years finding out he truly is mediocre.


He needs a better support system from a development standpoint. I hope he gets that this offseason.

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Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:34 pm
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
He needs a better support system from a development standpoint. I hope he gets that this offseason.

So true.


Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:36 pm
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
LOL!!!!

Are people REALLY crying about the QB throwing a bomb over 63 yards, IN THE AIR and getting crushed as soon as he releases it???

You do understand that those passes are about a 2% completion rate???

But then with this group I doubt it.

Wow.


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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
dolphinjim wrote:
LOL!!!!

Are people REALLY crying about the QB throwing a bomb over 63 yards, IN THE AIR and getting crushed as soon as he releases it???

You do understand that those passes are about a 2% completion rate???

But then with this group I doubt it.

Wow.


Nope, people are talking about the consistent under throws he misses while not getting hit. No one faulted him for the Wallace drop.


Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:29 am
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
I hope not to offend anyone, but the accuracy of his deep ball is off... If it is not corrected there is little hope for him in the future anywhere.

I think he is under utilized by the coaching staff, not sure who to blame and dont think it matters as I expect a new regime this Jan... But..
Sherman had him run the system at A&M rather well, he was moved around a lot, roll outs, QB options, etc... Here he has been pretty much limited to a drop back passer, seems the second half of last season and now starting to see the roll outs and QB options... But both times we are already scraping for a wildcard spot and it is done out of desperation rather than utilizing a guys talent..

Tanne ran routes and caught passes across the middle, he is fast for a QB, he can obviously take a few hits, it seems to me we have the ability to move into the next century of football..
Several teams are beginning to utilize mobile and running QB's, designing systems around them that are successful etc..
He needs to work on those deep throws, but he also needs a more competent group of coaches IMO..

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Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:41 am
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
But then with this group I doubt it.

Sorry Jim, you're right...all hail Tanny.


Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:08 pm
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Jim as a former QB who got crushed all the time....I could still hit Mak in stride after 10 weeks of working with him...even with Big Dave and Rich bearing down on me


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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
dolphinjim wrote:
LOL!!!!

Are people REALLY crying about the QB throwing a bomb over 63 yards, IN THE AIR and getting crushed as soon as he releases it???

You do understand that those passes are about a 2% completion rate???

But then with this group I doubt it.

Wow.



HENNNNEEEEEEE! Lost love Jim, lost love.

Hey Jim how did that awful pick look to ya?..


Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:10 pm
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
dolphinjim wrote:
LOL!!!!

Are people REALLY crying about the QB throwing a bomb over 63 yards, IN THE AIR and getting crushed as soon as he releases it???

You do understand that those passes are about a 2% completion rate???

But then with this group I doubt it.

Wow.


No. People are faulting him for holding onto it so long when he was WIDE open.


Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:43 pm
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
If Tannehill can't develop on the deep ball he has no future starting anywhere. Chad Pennington game mangers are only in if you have a very good run system (see Joe Flacco, and the Rickey and Ronnie Dolphins with pennington). While I think Tannehill is better at the deep ball then Pennington, he still leaves plays on the field.

That last throw should have been a TD. It was a heart breaking drop from a 60 million dollar piece of poop who I am not impressed with and disappointed in.

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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Rich wrote:
Mike Wallace should have caught that last deep ball. Hit him in both hands, very catchable pass.

That's a $60 million play. Wallace is not a $60 million player.


I think he should have caught it too, but I think Tannehill has missed him on big plays more times than he has dropped it.

If Tannehill would hit Wallace in stride when he gets wide open headed to the endzone, I don't think anyone would blink at his $60 million.

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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
rodneyfaile wrote:
If Tannehill would hit Wallace in stride when he gets wide open headed to the endzone, I don't think anyone would blink at his $60 million.


Has to anticipate it and throw it sooner so that the ball isn't hanging in the air for 40 yards. Forget who but someone on the site pointed that out and it makes perfect sense.

Tannehill needs a QB guru coach.


Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:06 am
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
One play neither makes or breaks his salary. You cant blame Wallace for taking the money , you need to blame the Dolphins for giving it. That being said whether his contract was worth it or not still will be determined. At this point however it is pretty clear he is not living up to his salary.

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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
I think people would consider him worth the salary if Tannehill had hit him on a few of those wide open plays. Those would have been TDs and probably changed the outcome of the game.

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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
rodneyfaile wrote:
I think people would consider him worth the salary if Tannehill had hit him on a few of those wide open plays. Those would have been TDs and probably changed the outcome of the game.


I dont know , I think he is soft , gives up on plays.

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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
rodneyfaile wrote:
Rich wrote:
Mike Wallace should have caught that last deep ball. Hit him in both hands, very catchable pass.

That's a $60 million play. Wallace is not a $60 million player.


I think he should have caught it too, but I think Tannehill has missed him on big plays more times than he has dropped it.

If Tannehill would hit Wallace in stride when he gets wide open headed to the endzone, I don't think anyone would blink at his $60 million.


Wallace is near the top of the league in drops this season.

Easier to catch a ball that you get both hands on than to throw an accurate pass 50 yards downfield.

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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Rich wrote:
Easier to catch a ball that you get both hands on than to throw an accurate pass 50 yards downfield.


It's also easier to catch a pass when it's thrown to you while you're wide open instead of when you're having to twist/turn twice to adjust to a pass with a safety draped on you.

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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
We just need to stop the excuses for the lack of execution from everyone. Tannehill should have thrown better passes. Wallace should have caught that ball. I honestly believe if that were Hartline or Gibson they would have caught it. Miller needs to hit the hole harder. LBs need to actually tackle. Etc, etc.

To be really honest, it should never have come down to that play and it should not have been the Tannehill overthrow in the 3rd either. Can't pin everything on Tannehill and Wallace. They were two of the positives in that game.

Again, I think there are 10-15 plays we can point to which would have resulted in a Miami win. These guys are blowing it as a team.


Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:09 am
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
Easier to catch a ball that you get both hands on than to throw an accurate pass 50 yards downfield.


It's also easier to catch a pass when it's thrown to you while you're wide open instead of when you're having to twist/turn twice to adjust to a pass with a safety draped on you.


Let's not kid ourselves. Wallace has dropped passes where he has been wide open in space and the ball has hit him between the numbers. And he had opportunities to turn those plays into TDs after the catch. Those should be automatic catches for any NFL wideout.

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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Rich wrote:
Rock Sexton wrote:
Rich wrote:
Easier to catch a ball that you get both hands on than to throw an accurate pass 50 yards downfield.


It's also easier to catch a pass when it's thrown to you while you're wide open instead of when you're having to twist/turn twice to adjust to a pass with a safety draped on you.


Let's not kid ourselves. Wallace has dropped passes where he has been wide open in space and the ball has hit him between the numbers. And he had opportunities to turn those plays into TDs after the catch. Those should be automatic catches for any NFL wideout.


Welker is always at the top of drops...Marshall has drops..Megatron has drops. Nucklehead in Dallas has drops .Drops do happen to the best of them....Tanny needs to stop leaving so many plays on the field


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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Kev1321 wrote:
Welker is always at the top of drops...Marshall has drops..Megatron has drops. Nucklehead in Dallas has drops .Drops do happen to the best of them....Tanny needs to stop leaving so many plays on the field


Those guys get targetted ALOT more than Wallace. And I bet alot of those drops happen when those guys are covered.

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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Rich wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
Welker is always at the top of drops...Marshall has drops..Megatron has drops. Nucklehead in Dallas has drops .Drops do happen to the best of them....Tanny needs to stop leaving so many plays on the field


Those guys get targetted ALOT more than Wallace. And I bet alot of those drops happen when those guys are covered.

Walker dropped a couple wide open last week...and the Superbowl last drive?

Wallace is also catching down field passes do to the fact they have him running so many go patterns.....That's a little tougher too....

No doubt he shares some blame but Clay has his drops the other wr's have had there's ...As I see it a majority is timing and Tanny has bad timing..You see it in the sacks and ints..Holding the ball too long.....


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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Rich wrote:
Let's not kid ourselves. Wallace has dropped passes where he has been wide open in space and the ball has hit him between the numbers. And he had opportunities to turn those plays into TDs after the catch. Those should be automatic catches for any NFL wideout.


I disagree with the "automatic" comment. Takes superior body control to catch that pass that eventually fell into his hands. Regardless, I agree in a larger context that Wallace is not dependable and doesn't have the catching radius and body control of the elite WR's in the league.

jammer wrote:
We just need to stop the excuses for the lack of execution from everyone. Tannehill should have thrown better passes. Wallace should have caught that ball. I honestly believe if that were Hartline or Gibson they would have caught it. Miller needs to hit the hole harder. LBs need to actually tackle. Etc, etc.

To be really honest, it should never have come down to that play and it should not have been the Tannehill overthrow in the 3rd either. Can't pin everything on Tannehill and Wallace. They were two of the positives in that game.

Again, I think there are 10-15 plays we can point to which would have resulted in a Miami win. These guys are blowing it as a team.


Agree on every account. Nobody gets a pass in my eyes.

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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Rich wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
Welker is always at the top of drops...Marshall has drops..Megatron has drops. Nucklehead in Dallas has drops .Drops do happen to the best of them....Tanny needs to stop leaving so many plays on the field


Those guys get targetted ALOT more than Wallace. And I bet alot of those drops happen when those guys are covered.


That is a very valid point. Wallace is targeted alot less than those other receivers & that is also astounding to me given his contract & his so called number 1 free agent status.
We kidded before the season that this guy may be a high priced decoy. That seems to be the case although honestly he is not that good of a decoy either. Time will tell but it looks like this guy might have gotten over on the Dolphins.

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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Something going on then.....He was good before he got here.

Like so many others......I"m not as down on Wallace as most

Ya he is overpaid...But that's what it took to get a free agent. They usually are overpaid.... He is a weapon we just need more of them..Which is what makes it so crazy that Bush isn't here......They pinched too many pennies with that one


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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
Kev1321 wrote:
Something going on then.....He was good before he got here.

Like so many others......I"m not as down on Wallace as most

Ya he is overpaid...But that's what it took to get a free agent. They usually are overpaid.... He is a weapon we just need more of them..Which is what makes it so crazy that Bush isn't here......They pinched too many pennies with that one


Tannehill's timing is part of the problem. The other is that Wallace either runs a deep route or is asked to be Brandon Marshall. He's not going to shed tackles or make guys miss. Has he run a crossing route or had his guy picked on a PA rollout where he'd have open field in front of him?

Like Bush, I don't think the coaches are creative enough when getting him the ball. For what they are doing they would have been better off signing Jennings and drafting Markus Wheaton to just run deep routes to pull a safety out of the middle.


Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:20 pm
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Post Re: MW Deep Ball
well he's on pace for around 72 grabs for 960 yards and 4 TD's
That's better than he did last year in Pittsburgh except in the touchdown department.
Tannehill and Sherman carry a good bit of the blame for his production.

If Ryan connected on 4 or 5 of the deep patterns that Wallace torched his guy then we're probably looking at a first season stat line in Miami around 76 catches, 1160 yds. and say 7 TD's

Just poor execution.

Not too mention the PI in the Bengal game where the d-back pulled him to the ground to stop Wallace from getting a sure TD. Lots of reasons why his numbers are down this year.


Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:20 pm
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