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yeah, this is a little misleading as he did allow eight touchdowns in 2013, and only two cornerbacks (Minnesota's Chris Cook and Cleveland's Buster Skrine) allowed more.

I agree with you Finhead, these grades are usually misleading. Every time I turned on a Colt game some receiver was abusing him.

And that is why he is not here and Grimes is...

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Caution: Reply may contain sarcasm

It's not misleading.

PFF's system looks at every single play. It could be that the touchdowns allowed were well covered and perfect throws. In these instances, PFF will still give the player a positive grade.

It's the same thing as when a QB throws an INT, but it was actually a well thrown pass tipped by his own receiver and then intercepted. PFF will not penalize the QB for the INT.

The 8 touchdowns allowed is actually the misleading stat.

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It's funny that pro football focus graded him out as a top three corner yet they have him 22nd on their top 75 free agents (4th corner on that list) which would lead me to believe that even PFF finds their own rankings misleading..

8 touchdowns were well covered? OK

I don't have alot of faith in that site. Some here think it's the Holy Grail of the NFL. I'd rather trust my eyes.

Just because a TD is caught, does not mean the DB was not in a good position. Just as in baseball all home runs are not badly thrown pitches. Sometimes the other players just makes the better play.

I would have to view the plays to form my own opinion on his coverage.

I agree that PFF is not the holy grail of a players plays. I just cannot buy that they break down every player of every game unless they have that many employees doing it, which then leads to more than one opinion forming the sites opinion.

You are absolutely right. Really I was merely stating that Davis may have a high ranking, but there are some other things to consider and I thought the stat that only two other starters were scored upon more than Davis was worth mentioning was all. He also only had ONE interception throughout the entire season, another stat to mention.

Davis is still a young physical corner and unless one of our young corners emerge, giving him up for a 2nd round pick when he could have been lined up opposite Grimes with Patterson in the nickel, probably would one of the NFL's best trios.

One pick against 8 TDs is a bad stat IMO. I still like Davis & his ability, but it seems he is still not what his talent suggest it should be.



Taylor needs to become a solid corner. I'm not against waiting a yr for a player, but it stinks that it was a traded pick of Davis. The top of Miami's 2013 draft were of players with current injuries and that is not a good draft for some help in that yr.

I like Vontae Davis as he is a risk-taker and has good instincts. Still, giving up 8 TDs is a bit much. Character-wise, I'd rather have Grimes. VD is a good kid, but I think if he grew up a little more we would have seen better consistency from him in Miami. Last year was a contract year, so, we'll have to see if he can continue to produce as he did last year. He is loaded with talent.

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Why are we worried about what VD is asking for?

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Ya, I've grown to find it suspicious. Do people realize how many players and plays that amounts to? The time required is mind blowing.

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I was thinking the same. Guess its nice to knock ex Phins.

Yes, that is EXACTLY what I said.

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So you saw all 8 touchdown passes and all of his games?

If you can do it, PFF can.

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To those questioning PFF, I recommend you take a step back and ask yourselves why you're questioning a methodology you know nothing about. Is it because you happen to have a bias for or against a player and PFF's analysis has gone contrary to your opinion?

Is PFF the Holy Grail? I don't even know what that means. But what they are doing is taking the analysis of the NFL game to the next level. What they do is revolutionary which is why even NFL teams, players, agents and sports writers use their services and their analysis.

The people that use their services, especially the NFL teams, are more in tune with what is happening in a game than we are. Surely they must find some validity to what PFF does in order to pay money for their consultative services.

Yes, they do watch every snap. And not only do they watch every snap and analyze every player on every snap, but the analysis is peer reviewed. So while there is certainly a human factor, two pairs of eyes are looking at the same thing.

Each analyst does one per game per week and they dedicate a lot of time to this. Not only that, the information we get from the Premium Stats services is only part of the equation. They have another layer of information and analysis that we do not see, only their analysts and their client see, and it is proprietary.

Short of having metrics and analysis from the best NFL teams, this is the best thing out there.

I dare you to find something better.

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Why all the hate for PFF Rich?

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Haters gonna hate.

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No hate. But that's the easiest thing to label it for people who want to instigate yet another forum quarrel on here by demeaning someone's reluctance to worship PFF's service.

A healthy degree of skepticism as to it's end-all-be all use as a resource is warranted. Consider how many active players there are in the league, the amount of snaps played per game, and the amount of time it takes to go thru each game and watch each individual player for each individual snap.

The man hours behind it are simply mind boggling, not to mention there are times when plays are open to interpretation.

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At least 10 hours per week per analyst. But they do it.

Sure, unless they know the exact play there may be a degree of error, but that evens itself out over the 600-1000 snaps a player takes per season. Even if there are some plays graded inaccurately, they do not cause enough distortion to skew the overall grade.

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I like the site myself, however take all stats with an open mind.

As far as VD, he has questionable work ethic, seems to have had his best year in a contract year, go figure. As far as his $ is concerned, he would get less in FA IMO, but Indy may pony up with an incentive or back loaded deal..

I would take Grimes over him 10 out of 10 times...

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Caution: Reply may contain sarcasm

talk about being blindly biased.

100% agree

Ya, but consider how many active/participating players there are in the league. How many analysts are there at PFF exactly?

I value their conrtibutions, but only to a certain point.

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alot about football is open to interpretation

not a very big staff

Talk about my response going way over your head....

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7 full time and OTHER contributors...

How many OTHER contributors?

I can tell you for a fact that they have OTHER contributors gathering data and supplying to the primary analysts.

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Why do you never put links to the articles you quote?

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They have 7 full time staff and multiple freelance data contributors.

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http://www.aolnews.com/2010/03/04/pro-f ... -together/

PFF Article

So swerve's source in regards to staff size is an article from March 2010.

No wonder he didn't post the link.

I can tell you they are rapidly growing their staff and data contributors.

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Never? Exaggerate much?

But they are fans Rich. They don't have any scouting qualifications.
Just fans like Bleacher report writers.

yes because 2010 was decades ago.

maybe now they have twice as many casual fans working for them.. LOL

Personally I find that even more mind boggling then. I was expecting to hear about a lot more than that given the amount of time it would take to scout a single game and every snap for every player who participated.

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Huh? Lol, all of that must have went over your head. Nothing in that quote above remotely describes the meaning behind what I posted.

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You said "Why the hate for PFF" and Rock said it's not hate, but it's easy to say that we hate it because we don't agree with it.