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 Anyone else notice.... 
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Post Anyone else notice....
....how much interest the Patriots are showing in the top 5 quarterbacks in this draft. Do they sense the end of the Tom Terrific era?


Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:16 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
swerve13 wrote:
....how much interest the Patriots are showing in the top 5 quarterbacks in this draft. Do they sense the end of the Tom Terrific era?


It's most likely a smoke screen for other options to stay covert. They still have Mallet on the roster.

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Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:18 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
funny I just posted this after reading about all the QB visits New England has had this week, and I just turned on the Scott Van Pelt show and this is exactly what they are talking about. They suggested the Pats packaging Mallett and the 29th pick to move up for Bridgewater.


Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:26 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
I certainly hope its nearing the end of that era. How nice it would be to have the 3 other teams in this division relevant again after all these years.

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Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:56 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
swerve13 wrote:
funny I just posted this after reading about all the QB visits New England has had this week, and I just turned on the Scott Van Pelt show and this is exactly what they are talking about. They suggested the Pats packaging Mallett and the 29th pick to move up for Bridgewater.


Floating rumors like that makes me think the Pats have other guys in mind they want to slide to the 29th pick and are scaring other teams into trading up for QBs.

We talk about Miami's dilemma if Bridgewater/Manziel are on the board, but what about the Jets? Are they that confident in Smith?


Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:59 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
Manziel is not leaving the top 5. Book it!
Bortles will get drafted top 10 if not 1st overall.
Bridgewater could be the one that falls, but he really shouldn't in my opinion. He'd be a huge upgrade for Jacksonville, Cleveland, Oakland, Minnesota and Tennessee.


Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:03 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
swerve13 wrote:
Manziel is not leaving the top 5. Book it!


Want to bet on it?

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Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:12 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
Rich wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
Manziel is not leaving the top 5. Book it!


Want to bet on it?


absolutely!


Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:14 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
swerve13 wrote:
Rich wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
Manziel is not leaving the top 5. Book it!


Want to bet on it?


absolutely!


Sig bet... Manziel is not selected in the top 5 by one of the teams holding a top 5 pick right now.

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Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:15 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
nope, Manziel is selected in one of the top 5 spots, regardless of a trade up.


Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:18 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
Ok fine, he isn't picked in the top 5 period.

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Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:22 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
you're on


Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:26 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
I'm not even a big Manziel supporter, but I've never seen such universal love for one guy by people that I respect the opinions of. His star is soaring right now at the best possible time while Bridgewater's star is fading. Manziel has even managed to change the opinions of his biggest critics in the last 2 months.


Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:29 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
swerve13 wrote:
I'm not even a big Manziel supporter, but I've never seen such universal love for one guy by people that I respect the opinions of. His star is soaring right now at the best possible time while Bridgewater's star is fading. Manziel has even managed to change the opinions of his biggest critics in the last 2 months.


I'm seeing just the opposite. I see a lot of lukewarm opinions about both him and Bridgewater. I don't think his star is rising at all. Actually, more and more analysts are saying if there is a QB that will drop in the 1st round, it will be Manziel.. or both Manziel and Bridgewater.

We're over a month away from the draft, so even if his star were rising, he'd be shooting his wad early. And the only opinions that ultimately matter are those of NFL GMs.

What they will see is his lack of size, lack of polish, lack of discipline, lack of form, lack of leadership, lack of ability to stay in the pocket and read defenses and lack of a big arm and decide he is more of a project than a guy that is ready to start from day 1.

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Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:39 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
Rich wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
I'm not even a big Manziel supporter, but I've never seen such universal love for one guy by people that I respect the opinions of. His star is soaring right now at the best possible time while Bridgewater's star is fading. Manziel has even managed to change the opinions of his biggest critics in the last 2 months.


I'm seeing just the opposite. I see a lot of lukewarm opinions about both him and Bridgewater. I don't think his star is rising at all. Actually, more and more analysts are saying if there is a QB that will drop in the 1st round, it will be Manziel.. or both Manziel and Bridgewater.

We're over a month away from the draft, so even if his star were rising, he'd be shooting his wad early. And the only opinions that ultimately matter are those of NFL GMs.

What they will see is his lack of size, lack of polish, lack of discipline, lack of form, lack of leadership, lack of ability to stay in the pocket and read defenses and lack of a big arm and decide he is more of a project than a guy that is ready to start from day 1.


I don't know where you're getting your info, we're not watching and reading the same things on a daily basis. I'm all burned out on Manziel mania. He even changed Jaworski's mind and had Mayock bump him up even higher in his rankings after his pro day. How is he shooting his wad early? He aced the combine and his pro day. Game Over! I'm not disagreeing with anything about his actual game as a qb. I'm just talkin about his stock. I have many doubts about him but I am in the minority. People love this guy, and the lovetrain just keeps growing.


Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:46 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
I mean here's another positive blurb for Jonny football. I see these daily.

Quote:
NFL Network's Kurt Warner would select Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel as the top QB in this class.
"I just think he brings an x-factor," Warner began. "I've got a lot of questions about what he can become. How he plays the game in the pocket. But just that x-factor, when you get to the next level, you want a guy who can change the game at the quarterback position." Warner did not discuss Manziel's throwing ability to certain levels of the field but did note he thinks the quarterback class is deeper than some say.


Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:49 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
swerve13 wrote:
I don't know where you're getting your info


Let's start with an NFL head coach (Mike Zimmer) and move onto ESPN's Merril Hoge and NFL Films Greg Cosell.

Anyway, we can quote analysts all day long. It is irrelevant. GMs aren't going to listen to Mayock or Kurt Warner. They are going to listen to their scouts and put the film on and see exactly what you and I see. A guy who throws the ball up to big receivers, who runs out of the pocket way too early and who just doesn't look like an NFL QB.

They're going to ask themselves if the guy they are about to draft top 5 can start from day 1. And with Manziel and all the work he needs, the answer is no.

Typically, the teams picking top 5 are trying to get a franchise turned around, not taking risks on a boom or bust guy like Manziel.

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Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:57 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
Rich wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
I don't know where you're getting your info


Let's start with an NFL head coach (Mike Zimmer) and move onto ESPN's Merril Hoge and NFL Films Greg Cosell.

Anyway, we can quote analysts all day long. It is irrelevant. GMs aren't going to listen to Mayock or Kurt Warner. They are going to listen to their scouts and put the film on and see exactly what you and I see. A guy who throws the ball up to big receivers, who runs out of the pocket way too early and who just doesn't look like an NFL QB.

They're going to ask themselves if the guy they are about to draft top 5 can start from day 1. And with Manziel and all the work he needs, the answer is no.

Typically, the teams picking top 5 are trying to get a franchise turned around, not taking risks on a boom or bust guy like Manziel.


Yeah.....I don't see Manziel as the next Russell Wilson. He might bring excitement to a moribund franchise, but probably not playoff appearances. I guess it is possible that good coaching and a strong organization could mold him into something special though.....so let us pray he does not become a Patriot.

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Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:09 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
Zimmer was the only one to poo poo his pro day, but he's a defensive guy. But then I heard he even started to warm up to Manziel shortly after that. Probably because his GM likes Johnny and he may get stuck with him. LOL

I won't even listen to anything Hoge has to say.


Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:13 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
It is interesting that the teams from 2011 who overdrafted their QBs - Jacksonville, Minnesota, Tennessee - are all in position to do the same once again. Only Tennessee seems willing to give their guy one more chance.


Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:16 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
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Ok fine, he isn't picked in the top 5 period.


Rich, it is just my opinion, but I see BUST written all over Manziel. He may get to make a little bit of money on t-shirts trademarking his stupid tag line, similar to Brian Bosworth making more money on his BOZ name than being a good NFL football player and I feel the same concept on Manziel.


Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
swerve13 wrote:
Zimmer was the only one to poo poo his pro day


Think about this, though.

How often does a head coach publicly criticize a player's Pro Day?

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Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:46 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
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Manziel unlikely to be there at No. 8, anyway
Historically, this is the time of year when, quite frankly, I don't believe much of what is said about NFL prospects, especially what's said publicly from teams. And silence can be just as deafening. Before drafting Jay Cutler, the Broncos had exactly zero interaction with the quarterback in the months leading up to the draft. As for Zimmer's comments, I don't read much into them, but I will say this -- I don't think the Vikings, if they have interest in Manziel, will be in position to draft him at No. 8; they'd have to move up, in my opinion, to have a chance at landing Johnny Football.


Gil Brandt, NFL.com


Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:04 am
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
In the end maybe he doesnt get selected top 5 , but as of today Mel Kiper, Rob Rang, Dane Brugler, Pete Prisco, Pat Kirwin, Will Brinson, Bryan Fischer all have him going top 5 in their mocks.

Word is Jacksonville and Oakland were impressed with Manziel, and if Texans owner Bob McNair has his way Manziel would be the top pick for Houston. and it seems Cleveland is putting on their best poker face to hide their interest in him as well. So GM's are definitely interested. It's not just Kurt Warner and Mike Mayock. All 4 of those teams very strong possibilities in the top 5. Add to this the Rams want to trade the 2nd pick. Maybe to a team like Cleveland or Oakland trying to leapfrog Jacksonville at #3 to get to Manziel.

Quote:
Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel was reportedly "very impressive" in interviews with the Jaguars and Raiders at the NFL Scouting Combine over the weekend.
"He did a really nice job in there. He was prepared for the interview, very prepared," Jaguars GM Dave Caldwell said. "We’ve found nothing that’s come across as a fatal flaw to us." Raiders owner Mark Davis was said to be "very impressed" after Oakland's 15-minute sit-down with Johnny Football. The Jaguars and Raiders hold the third and fifth picks, respectively, in May's draft.


Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:45 am
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
Teams like the Raiders and Jaguars can justify the pick simply based on ticket sales alone. Those teams have absolutely nothing going for them. Manziel is the only player that could change their outlooks drastically. Clowney isn't going to win them 5 or 6 more games the way Manziel could. It's a quarterback driven league and they get pushed up the board.

They'd be giving their fans something to be excited about from day 1. Owners think about that kind of stuff.
Manziel gets people fired up. Fans and players. If anything he is a great leader.
He's Tim Tebow with talent. He's a mixed bag....he's an enigma....
He's not fundamentally sound and can make some bad throws, but he can also make the impossible play and keep drives alive. it's the "IT" factor everyone mentions with him. To me he is a Flutie/Romo hybrid. And in the new NFL teams are looking for athletes to play QB, not pocket statues.
He'd be a team leader even as a rookie. He makes dumb decisions off the field but has the "stuff" on the field.


Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:00 am
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
this is how I have it in my updated mock.

1. Houston-Jadeveon Clowney-DE
2. St. Louis-Greg Robinson-OT
3. Jacksonville-Khalil Mack-OLB
4. Cleveland-Johnny Manziel-QB
5. Oakland-Sammy Watkins-WR
6. Atlanta-Jake Matthews-OT
7. Tampa Bay-Blake Bortles-QB
8. Minnesota-Teddy Bridgewater-QB
9. Buffalo-Mike Evans-WR
10. Detroit-Justin Gilbert-CB


Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:43 am
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
Quote:
Browns coach Mike Pettine was asked about Manziel earlier in the week at the NFL owners meetings in Florida.

"Gifted playmaker," Pettine said. "The play starts when he makes the first guy miss. That's exciting to watch, but to transition to the NFL, he'll have to be able to play in structure, his fifth-step, his foot hits the ground that he can execute a throw. I don't think there's any reason to think that wouldn't happen and I think he's capable of doing it, but when you have that ability to improvise like that, that's what makes him special and maybe separates him from other guys."

Pettine described the type of quarterback he likes and a case could be made that it sounds a lot like Manziel.

"The nice thing about the system Kyle (Shanahan) runs is he's gotten it done with some different types, so we're not as locked in to a specific type," Pettine said. "I'm looking for a guy that's got that 'it' factor -- not necessarily, starting with the physical talent first. We are going to work out to see how they are physical, but at the same time do a lot of homework from a background standpoint, talking to guys, people they've played with, coaches, just trying to see who has that 'it' factor.


http://msn.foxsports.com/ohio/story/is- ... wns-032914


Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:51 am
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
swerve13 wrote:
this is how I have it in my updated mock.

1. Houston-Jadeveon Clowney-DE
2. St. Louis-Greg Robinson-OT
3. Jacksonville-Khalil Mack-OLB
4. Cleveland-Johnny Manziel-QB
5. Oakland-Sammy Watkins-WR
6. Atlanta-Jake Matthews-OT
7. Tampa Bay-Blake Bortles-QB
8. Minnesota-Teddy Bridgewater-QB
9. Buffalo-Mike Evans-WR
10. Detroit-Justin Gilbert-CB


This is pretty good, but I don't see Oakland passing on Bortles in this scenario. I also am thinking Bridgewater falls farther unless he redeems himself between now and the draft at another showing. I think Minnesota will be sitting odd man out trying to decide whether to take Teddy, or Carr, or trade down and try to take one of them later.


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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
swerve13 wrote:
Word is Jacksonville and Oakland were impressed with Manziel, and if Texans owner Bob McNair has his way Manziel would be the top pick for Houston. and it seems Cleveland is putting on their best poker face to hide their interest in him as well. So GM's are definitely interested.


"Word is" does not equal "definitely".

We "definitely" don't know what GMs actually think about him.

No one puts their cards out on the table a month before the draft.

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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
I do think this is a bluff by the Pat's, but it is interesting because Tom 'Fraidy is going into his 15th year, whether the Pats like it or not the end is near, and we also know nothing about Hammer, I mean Maul, I mean Mallet...

The thing is, you never know what those wiley Pat's are up to, they do a very good job of misinformation, Bill? Mailacheck is a true disciple of Sun Tsu's The Art of War, most NFL coaches read this book but not all are such believers in it as Billy boy, they do a very good job keeping people guessing.

Personally, they do such a good job with the misinformation that I don't pay much attention to anything they do, I would also recommend that strategy for NFL teams, because if your paying attention to what they're doing then your doing what they want...

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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
Im sure they want to add someone sooner rather than later. Cant imagine sitting behind Brady for a couple years learning the system and what it takes to be a Brady will hurt.

Wish they were bull headed and just waited til he retired to address it...

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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
swerve13 wrote:
Quote:
NFL Network's Kurt Warner would select Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel as the top QB in this class.


I listened to the interview on CBS Sports Radio yesterday, and I did not hear Warner say Manziel was the top QB. He compared him to Wilson, not because of the height, but Manziel's ability to extend plays and make yards on his own. Warner further said, he wouldn't build a team around Manziel.........he'll need time to develop as a pocket passer. Warner thought it would be detrimental to put him on a team, where too much is demanded of him in the start.

That being said, all the teams drafting in the top 5 should be looking hard at QB with their first pick. So even if you have Manziel as the 3rd best QB, he'll likely be gone by the 5th pick and it could very well be a team like Minnesota or Tennessee that moves up to take him.


Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:22 am
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
here is what arguably the best coach in the league just said about him, the praise just keeps coming.....

Quote:
File San Francisco 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh's comments on Johnny Manziel under the latter.
"I'd welcome the challenges of taking Johnny Manziel," Harbaugh said, according to sfgate.com. "(He) sees the field like nobody I've ever seen see the field in college football. You'd love to work with that."


Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:20 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
swerve13 wrote:
here is what arguably the best coach in the league just said about him, the praise just keeps coming.....

Quote:
File San Francisco 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh's comments on Johnny Manziel under the latter.
"I'd welcome the challenges of taking Johnny Manziel," Harbaugh said, according to sfgate.com. "(He) sees the field like nobody I've ever seen see the field in college football. You'd love to work with that."


It doesn't matter what GMs or coaches say on the record. It matters what happens on draft day.

Coaches and GMs are generally not going to make public comments criticizing a player coming out in the draft. Right now, all of these guys are great, they all bring special potential.

This is no different than Dennis Hickey coming in and saying he thinks the Dolphins can improve and compete for a championship.

What else is he going to say, that this franchise is cursed and he's already counting the days til he gets fired?

It's pointless to post these quotes about what GMs and coaches are saying. They all speak the same language.

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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
Quote:
According to the Houston Chronicle's John McClain, the Texans will select UCF QB Blake Bortles or Texas A & M QB Johnny Manziel.
"I'm still predicting a quarterback, as I have been since the day the 2013 season ended. I believe they'll select Blake Bortles or Johnny Manziel," McClain wrote. While Clowney seems like the logical selection at first thought, McClain believes "nothing revitalizes an organization like a quarterback drafted in the first round." The Texans have been desperate for quality play at the position for some time, and pairing the right prospect under the tutelage of Bill O'Brien could reap instant results.


Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:48 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
Houston will select Bortles.

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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
Rich wrote:
Houston will select Bortles.


I just want to throw a monkey wrench into this for fun. If it is true that there isn't a talent gap between the 15th pick and the 50th pick then it would be hard to trade back and get fair value. But if I'm Miami, I'm on the phone with Houston saying I'll happily send you the 19th pick for the 33rd pick and your 3rd rounder if a fallback QB option is available at our pick.

Why would Houston do it? Imagine if they could land both Clowney and Manziel/Bridgewater. They also have a lot of picks this year. Talk about infusing hype into a franchise.

Why would Miami do it? Unless a guy they love is at 19 what does it hurt to move back and acquire an extra pick in a round that provides someone to compete for a starting job.

I don't think this is going to happen but if all of the assumption about this draft are true then I don't mind taking 75 cents on the dollar to position my team to maybe get a potential starter.

Just having fun with the idea.


Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
It's more likely we move back than forward, deep draft and we have several holes to fill. I like the idea of trading back in the first round in exchange for a 2nd. I wouldn't trade out of the first, unless it's a real sweet deal.


Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:20 pm
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Post Re: Anyone else notice....
An interesting scenario... and not too far-fetched... is that one of the QBs (Carr or Bridgewater, most likely) are left at 19 that two or more teams after us covet. Will they be willing to give up their first and second to jump over the others to get him? Cleveland (if they pass with their first choice) or maybe even Arizona might be candidates. It's a little bit of a stretch, but not much.


Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:47 pm
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Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 6576
Location: Lancaster, PA
Post Re: Anyone else notice....
I am all for trading down a little and adding a 3rd rounder to do it.


Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:58 pm
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