Not the tune you were singing last yr when Miami signed him.

Well, opinions change, I was wrong about him. Hopefully I'm wrong about Williams.

Why are you so quick to pull the "He is garbage" card? No one is saying Miami signed the next great stud WR. Just he had a good skill set coming into the NFL & maybe he just did not fit well with what Tenn was wanting to do.

The thing is he put up solid numbers with them for 2 years with a garbage qb and then Locker came in and they wanted to bring in bigger wrs which took him out of the mix. Also they were still a run first team so that team was just terrible and him not being great doesnt help. As a 5th wr who can return kicks i like it

You were talking about Hartline and his targets and then jumped to Gibson and his targets in the same paragraph but you weren't comparing them?

Then it what other possible context were you talking about Gibson getting "more" targets? More targets than what exactly?

You're not being very clear.

Why are you so quick to pull the "He is garbage" card?

This what he is right now until he proves otherwise. His own team didn't resign him, there was no bidding war for him. He is camp fodder, plain and simple. Why do you care so much about my opinion? Do you know the guy or something? lol...

I look at it like this .... if the Jets picked him up I don't think you'd be seeing any nice things said whatsoever about Williams. LOL

Maybe I was not 100% clear. Shoot me for not spelling it out & closing any loopholes to where someone could not spin my comments in order to win a message board discussion.

I'll take the defeat. Congrats.

So either he has either produced or not produced.

Care would be a really wrong word. Curiosity would be the better word as to why you believe players cannot be talented, but just in the wrong system.

I just not getting the everyone is camp fodder if 31 other NFL teams re not fighting over him.

Care would be a really wrong word. Curiosity would be the better word as to why you believe players cannot be talented, but just in the wrong system.

Again, hopefully your right and he becomes a #2 or #3 for us.


I just not getting the everyone is camp fodder if 31 other NFL teams re not fighting over him.

Well, if he talented or needs a new system other teams would be going after him. It's logical, right? What is right now on the FIns? I say camp fodder. The fins are working out all kinds of recievers before the draft. If they thought highly of him, they can draft another position. We have 7 or 8 wrs on the roster right now and are still looking. I am connecting the dots, camp fodder, that's it.

I do not know what I would be right about.


Good teams see talent & contributors when lesser teams do not.


Maybe they are wanting teams to think they are checking out WR in order for teams to jump ahead of them & draft one, leaving another position for them to take. Who knows why. Teams check out players they have no chance or no interest in drafting for future reference.

I do not know what I would be right about.


I personally feel Williams has a good chance at producing similar numbers as Hartline, but at a fraction of the cost. From you, Scot.

If he puts up numbers like Hartline he would #2 WR, so again, I hope you are right, but I doubt it, he's camp fodder.

Thanks. I was not sure what you were referencing. Good chance does not mean I said he will.


Basically no way would he be the No. 2 this yr outside Hartline being injured. Coaches are notoriously scared of the unknown, so even if he produces in preseason/training camp, it will not happen.

I get the feeling to you the NFL draft should only be 1 Rd, because if every team passes on you then you must not be any good.

BTW, Miami paid him more than the vet min for a 4 yr player. Usually players the team considers simple camp fodder does not get more than the min.

I really don't get the criticism I see on Brian Hartline. He's been our best receiver the past two years as he is smart enough to find the soft spots in any defense and catches the tough pass. I think he'd have Welker-type stats if he played at New England.

Damian Williams? I'm not sure if he makes our roster if all are healthy.

Hartline wouldn't have Welker-like stats because he's not a Welker-type receiver. He's predominantly a side-line runner and as a No.2 he'll never approach those 110+ reception seasons. He can't even catch TD's consistently nor is he a shifty guy. Hell as a No.1 receiver last year he only put up 74 receptions.

He's simply a blue collar guy who plays above his talent level and has good chemistry with Tanny.

I get the feeling to you the NFL draft should only be 1 Rd, because if every team passes on you then you must not be any good.

Well your feeling is wrong.

Good chance does not mean I said he will.

You are splitting hairs here. Good chance. He will. He will not. Who cares?

Coaches are notoriously scared of the unknown, so even if he produces in preseason/training camp, it will not happen.

I don't agree with this at all. You can either play or you can't. If he is outperforming everyone in camp and has a lights out preseason, he will play.

Usually players the team considers simple camp fodder does not get more than the min.

I guess we will see. Anyway, I'm done with Williams. Nice civil debate. "Talk" to you later Scot.

Yep, something tells me you would have said similar things about Welker pre-New England. Grant it that they are different type of receivers, I think their stats would have still be close to the same at NE as Hartline would have been used more effectively.

Keep in mind who was throwing Wes the ball while he was here.

Honestly I think it's more of a "white" thing. Every time a decent white receiver's value is brought up "if he were on NE" people inevitably force the Wes Welker comparison.

Not seeing it at all. Wes Welker is 20 times the receiver Hartline is and at a fraction of the size.