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 Post subject: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:27 am 
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man i think we are gonna have a wicked defense this year. i like the sound of the tweaking we are gonna be doing.
it seems to me we are gonna have some big fast relentless players flying all over the field.
i think our line up wil be something like this Iin the base D

Y BELL R JONES

S SMITH V DAVIS

C WAKE K DANSBY C CROWDER K MISI

J ODRICK R STARKS K LANGFORD
:awe: :awe: :awe: :awe: :awe: :awe: :awe: :awe: :awe: :awe:
that looks like one heck of a lineup to me. i am so anxious for the season to start :yay:


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:29 am 
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I'm going to go with Clemons as the starting FS. Otherwise, that's probably the lineup.

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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:42 am 
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I think that Will Allen will probably get the not over Jones at FS unless they do some shuffling around.


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:44 am 
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I think there will be certain packages where both Jones and YB are in there, but I'm thinking that Clemons and Culver get most of the snaps at FS.

I agree with the rest though. Mike Nolan makes this defense respectable by himself. Adding some speed and athleticism at LB was key, and Miami did a great job of doing so.

I'm going to predict it now, Koa Misi defensive rookie of the year. This year's Clay Mathews with better coverage and open field skills.


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:46 am 
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finfan808 wrote:
I think that Will Allen will probably get the not over Jones at FS unless they do some shuffling around.


So you're saying that despite there being 3 free safeties on the team, a cornerback will get the spot. :hithead:

Speaking of Will Allen, I'm going to say he starts over Sean Smith.

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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:53 am 
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Iowafin wrote:
finfan808 wrote:
I think that Will Allen will probably get the not over Jones at FS unless they do some shuffling around.


So you're saying that despite there being 3 free safeties on the team, a cornerback will get the spot. :hithead:


Will allen is coming off of surgery, He understands coverages he can obviously line up in Man and would be able to stick to RB and TE. He's a seasoned veteran and I think it's something to consider. It would allow Jones and Clemons to develop a little more. Not sure if Culver is ready either.

Iowafin wrote:
Speaking of Will Allen, I'm going to say he starts over Sean Smith.


Thought about that too! Smith just might regress, if we pull him now it may hurt him. I say let him grow and take his lumps now. Unless he gets totally lit up like every play.


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:55 am 
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i agree Iowa ,for me allen gets the nod over smith

and in nickel packages he covers the slot rec

when fergi returns from his ban ,he may get the nod at nt ???


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:09 am 
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Rod Woodson was one of the best cover corners in the game at the beginning of his career. When he returned from a serious knee injury he moved to FS where he became a pro bowler.

Ronnie Lott also successfully made the transition to FS.

I think Will Allen would be an excellent FS and would help us win more ball games.


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:13 am 
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finfan808 wrote:
Rod Woodson was one of the best cover corners in the game at the beginning of his career. When he returned from a serious knee injury he moved to FS where he became a pro bowler.

Ronnie Lott also successfully made the transition to FS.

I think Will Allen would be an excellent FS and would help us win more ball games.


Rod Woodson was a hall of fame corner. Will Allen is not.

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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:38 am 
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Will Allen has not even thought of moving to FS, and Miami has not mentioned anything about moving Allen to FS. As much as I like Sean Smith, you have to not only cover, but tackle in the run game. Sean right now is very soft in the run game.

It would not surprise me to see Vontae and Will Allen as the starting CB, but is obviously going to be a nice battle in camp.

I like Reshad Jones and think he has a chance to be the starting FS. He and Chris Clemons are what you want physically at the position, but I think Jones ball skills could give him an edge and we know the kid will come up and lay the wood.

I agree with the front 7.

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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:44 am 
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Looks like we got bigger, stronger and quicker all over this defense. That's the perfect recipe to unleash some hell on our opponents.


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:03 am 
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any 1 think anderson gets the nod over wake??
and bring cam in on passing downs?

he did last year when jp got banned for a game

i hope he dosent ,but he may do


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:33 am 
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I think you will see AJ Edds in there on 3rd down. Channing Crowder just became a 2 down linebacker IMO. And our LB coverage on passing downs got dramatically better with Dansby and Edds.

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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:58 am 
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hypocritex wrote:
I think you will see AJ Edds in there on 3rd down. Channing Crowder just became a 2 down linebacker IMO. And our LB coverage on passing downs got dramatically better with Dansby and Edds.


I agree. Gone are the days of watching CC and Akin run after TE's and RB's, 3 steps behind, and needing the help of YB and Gibril to make the play 30 yards downfield.

Our ILB core just went from slow as molasses to one of the fastest and best in coverage in football


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:10 pm 
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This faster front 7 should help the secondary out big time since QBs should have less lime to survey the field. The phins should give up a lot less big plays down the field this coming season.


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:18 pm 
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hypocritex wrote:
I think you will see AJ Edds in there on 3rd down. Channing Crowder just became a 2 down linebacker IMO. And our LB coverage on passing downs got dramatically better with Dansby and Edds.


I agree, Edds was my favorite pick of this draft for the simple reason that our linebackers have been so terrible at covering tightends and runningbacks. It's really hurt us the past couple of years. Edds is a guy that can read a quarterback better than lot of free safeties, I think he will excel coming in as a 3rd down cover guy. He will need a little time to adjust to the speed of NFL runningbacks and tightends though.

When it comes to the secondary, I think we will continue to utilize the combination of Davis and Smith at corner. Our staff is always looking to develop and improve our younger guys. Will Allen was kept on not because the staff wanted to, but because he would be needed in case Vontae or Sean was a bust. Since both guys turned out pretty good, I think Allen is really no longer needed. I think Will Allen will be kept on as our nickel corner, or probably even cut because of his salary and past issues. If the new guy Carroll Nolan shows up and looks good, then I think there is a possibility we might cut both Allens this year. I already believe there is no more room on this roster for Jason Allen, and Will has had way too many off the field issues. I think both are on their way out. I think Clemons will start at FS with Jones as his backup. Jones will contribute mostly as a special teams guy to start unless he proves to be a better player than Clemons in camp.


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:55 pm 
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i took this from another forum , its a nice read of mike nolans def schemes !!

http://www.thephinsider.com/2010/4/25/1 ... ike-nolans


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:31 am 
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Iowafin wrote:
I'm going to go with Clemons as the starting FS. Otherwise, that's probably the lineup.



I agree I think that Clemons or maybe even Tyrone Culver may take that spot.

There is also the strong possibility that they may move Will Allen to that position as well!


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:59 am 
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3-4

Bell - Clemons

W. Allen - Davis

Wake - Crowder - Dansby - Misi

Odrick - Starks - Langford

4-3

Bell - Clemons

W. Allen - Davis

Crowder - Dansby - Anderson

Wake/Misi - Odrick - Starks - Langford/Misi

( I honestly Feel these OLB will line up on the line a lot this season)

I think Sean Smith will be our 3rd CB but in Nickle Situations I think Davis/Allen cover the Slot.

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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:13 am 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Our ILB core just went from slow as molasses to one of the fastest and best in coverage in football

Phins Rock wrote:
I'm going to predict it now, Koa Misi defensive rookie of the year. This year's Clay Mathews with better coverage and open field skills.


And this is why you discredit yourself so often in these threads. :hithead:

Slow down, lets see these guys on the field, make the team, and take a few snaps in the regular season before we start saying things like that. lol


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:27 pm 
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Phin wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Our ILB core just went from slow as molasses to one of the fastest and best in coverage in football

Phins Rock wrote:
I'm going to predict it now, Koa Misi defensive rookie of the year. This year's Clay Mathews with better coverage and open field skills.


And this is why you discredit yourself so often in these threads. :hithead:

Slow down, lets see these guys on the field, make the team, and take a few snaps in the regular season before we start saying things like that. lol


Karlos Dansby is widely regarded as one of the best, if not the best coverage ILB's in the NFL. AJ Edds specialty is coverage. I don't see what's so ridiculous about my original statement.


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:37 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Karlos Dansby is widely regarded as one of the best, if not the best coverage ILB's in the NFL. AJ Edds specialty is coverage. I don't see what's so ridiculous about my original statement.


His specialty isn't coverage, you just think he is because someone said that and he had so many interceptions. Fact is, he's a rookie coming into the NFL. Nobody knows how good he can be. You said with the signing of Wilson that Miami had the best safety duo, and now with the drafting of Edds they are the fastest and best coverage linebackers in the league.

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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:43 pm 
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We got Tim Dobbins, right?

I think he will give Crowder a run for his money as second ilb.

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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:59 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Phin wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Our ILB core just went from slow as molasses to one of the fastest and best in coverage in football

Phins Rock wrote:
I'm going to predict it now, Koa Misi defensive rookie of the year. This year's Clay Mathews with better coverage and open field skills.


And this is why you discredit yourself so often in these threads. :hithead:

Slow down, lets see these guys on the field, make the team, and take a few snaps in the regular season before we start saying things like that. lol


Karlos Dansby is widely regarded as one of the best, if not the best coverage ILB's in the NFL. AJ Edds specialty is coverage. I don't see what's so ridiculous about my original statement.

I don't give a rip what any of these guys did or were in college. We are talking about the NFL now. They have to do something on the field in the NFL before we can start counting our eggs. Lets not start saying we are the best at this or that until these guys actually get some playing time to back that up.
Kinda like the 'Vontae Davis is the best tackling corner in the NFL' comments you made this past season.


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:01 pm 
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Phin wrote:
I don't give a rip what any of these guys did or were in college. We are talking about the NFL now. They have to do something on the field in the NFL before we can start counting our eggs. Lets not start saying we are the best at this or that until these guys actually get some playing time to back that up.
Kinda like the 'Vontae Davis is the best tackling corner in the NFL' comments you made this past season.


And Dansby...?


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:03 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Phin wrote:
I don't give a rip what any of these guys did or were in college. We are talking about the NFL now. They have to do something on the field in the NFL before we can start counting our eggs. Lets not start saying we are the best at this or that until these guys actually get some playing time to back that up.
Kinda like the 'Vontae Davis is the best tackling corner in the NFL' comments you made this past season.


And Dansby...?

LOL, thats one guy PR. Your speculating on our rookies too.


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:12 pm 
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Phin wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Phin wrote:
I don't give a rip what any of these guys did or were in college. We are talking about the NFL now. They have to do something on the field in the NFL before we can start counting our eggs. Lets not start saying we are the best at this or that until these guys actually get some playing time to back that up.
Kinda like the 'Vontae Davis is the best tackling corner in the NFL' comments you made this past season.


And Dansby...?

LOL, thats one guy PR. Your speculating on our rookies too.


Well of course. I think that Edds can make an immediate impact in coverage. And by the way, no I do not just think that because somebody told me and his stats. I re-watched the Sr. Bowl with a specific eye on him, and I could see for myself what the hype was about. He's got really smooth hips and a nice burst to the football, he's fast, athletic, reads the QB's eyes well and has good ball skills.

If Edds plays well on 3rd down, I have no doubt that our 'ILB coverage', if you want to call it that, will be one of the best in the league.


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:31 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
He's got really smooth hips and a nice burst to the football, he's fast, athletic, reads the QB's eyes well and has good ball skills.


It's easy to read a quarterback's eyes when the quarterback is out of college and playing with guys he's hardly played with and running an offense he just learned.

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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:41 pm 
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Iowafin wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
He's got really smooth hips and a nice burst to the football, he's fast, athletic, reads the QB's eyes well and has good ball skills.


It's easy to read a quarterback's eyes when the quarterback is out of college and playing with guys he's hardly played with and running an offense he just learned.



It's kinda like making a brand new team and then select your final depth chart after day 1 ;)

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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:50 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Well of course. I think that Edds can make an immediate impact in coverage. And by the way, no I do not just think that because somebody told me and his stats. I re-watched the Sr. Bowl with a specific eye on him, and I could see for myself what the hype was about. He's got really smooth hips and a nice burst to the football, he's fast, athletic, reads the QB's eyes well and has good ball skills.

If Edds plays well on 3rd down, I have no doubt that our 'ILB coverage', if you want to call it that, will be one of the best in the league.

PR, it doesnt matter if you coached the guy yourself. Your making bold claims about our linebacking corps being the fastest and best in the NFL in coverage. We have no idea how good they will be because your banking on rookies translating their college game to the NFL and then assuming that they will be just as good in the NFL at coverage as they were in college. Thats ludicrous. Your also assuming that these rookies we added are going to start.
:hithead:


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:15 pm 
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Phin wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
Well of course. I think that Edds can make an immediate impact in coverage. And by the way, no I do not just think that because somebody told me and his stats. I re-watched the Sr. Bowl with a specific eye on him, and I could see for myself what the hype was about. He's got really smooth hips and a nice burst to the football, he's fast, athletic, reads the QB's eyes well and has good ball skills.

If Edds plays well on 3rd down, I have no doubt that our 'ILB coverage', if you want to call it that, will be one of the best in the league.

PR, it doesnt matter if you coached the guy yourself. Your making bold claims about our linebacking corps being the fastest and best in the NFL in coverage. We have no idea how good they will be because your banking on rookies translating their college game to the NFL and then assuming that they will be just as good in the NFL at coverage as they were in college. Thats ludicrous. Your also assuming that these rookies we added are going to start.
:hithead:


No. I never said rookies will be making our LB core the best in football. I said that a rookie will be making our 3rd down coverage better because that is his specialty. I never said that he would be starting either, because I doubt he will be.

Dansby instantly makes the middle of our defense respectable on 3rd down, and adding a coverage-specialty LB in the draft, who some have said was the best coverage LB to come out, will only make it that much better. Again, if Edds plays well, I have no doubt that we will be one of the best in football in that department.


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:52 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
No. I never said rookies will be making our LB core the best in football.

You quoted me and you couldn't even comprehend what I said. Thats amazing! I said that you claimed our linebackers would be the best in coverage in the NFL, you also said they would be the fastest.
Phin wrote:
Your making bold claims about our linebacking corps being the fastest and best in the NFL in coverage.

Phins Rock wrote:
Our ILB core just went from slow as molasses to one of the fastest and best in coverage in football


Phins Rock wrote:
I never said that he would be starting either, because I doubt he will be.

So your saying that Edds is going to replace Dansby on 3rd downs now? Because that's what it sounds like here.
At this point we really don't know who will be playing where, but speculation is that Edds will be backing up Dansby, not Crowder. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1208

Phins Rock wrote:
Dansby instantly makes the middle of our defense respectable on 3rd down, and adding a coverage-specialty LB in the draft, who some have said was the best coverage LB to come out, will only make it that much better. Again, if Edds plays well, I have no doubt that we will be one of the best in football in that department.

Again, thats ridiculous; you don't know if his game will translate to the NFL yet. I don't think your getting it PR.
:hithead:


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:22 pm 
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Phin wrote:
You quoted me and you couldn't even comprehend what I said. Thats amazing! I said that you claimed our linebackers would be the best in coverage in the NFL, you also said they would be the fastest.

Phin wrote:
Your making bold claims about our linebacking corps being the fastest and best in the NFL in coverage.


Yes...It is, if Edds pans out, ONE OF THE best in COVERAGE, and one of the fastest in the NFL.


Quote:
So your saying that Edds is going to replace Dansby on 3rd downs now? Because that's what it sounds like here.
At this point we really don't know who will be playing where, but speculation is that Edds will be backing up Dansby, not Crowder. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1208

Why would he replace Dansby?? I don't care what the depth chart says....On 3rd down, where you run a 2 LB set, (generally), Dansby and Edds will be the guys in there and those 2 guys make our coverage over the middle of the field really good.

Quote:
Again, thats ridiculous; you don't know if his game will translate to the NFL yet. I don't think your getting it PR.


Phins Rock wrote:
Again, if Edds plays well

Phins Rock wrote:
I think that Edds can make an immediate impact in coverage.

Phins Rock wrote:
If Edds plays well on 3rd down


How many times are you going to make me repeat myself?? I'll say it one more time.

Edds and Dansby are both fast LB's. Dansby is widely known, and has proven, to be one of the best, if not the best, coverage ILB in football. IF Edds plays well out in coverage, which I THINK that he will because I like what I saw on tape and most experts, including Mike Mayock, believe him to be the best coverage LB in the draft, then we have a very good duo that can cover on 3rd down.

Crowder is not being replaced in the starting line up by Edds, I THINK he will be replaced by AJ on 3rd down. I am not talking about rookieS, I am talking about ONE rookie.

Did I make myself clear?? Phin, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you certainly come accross, at least to me, in your posts as just trying to provoke me by making me restate myself time after time after time. This is my opinion. If it is stupid of me to speculate and state my opinion on somebody, rookie and somebody proven, than so be it. I'm an idiot then.


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:09 pm 
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1. 3-4 WOLB – This job requires you to rush the passer about 70 percent of downs.
2. 3-4 WILB – A banger that can plug the run and rush the passer from ILB 1 out of 3 downs.
3. 3-4 SILB – A smart, athletic player that can rush 1 out of 4 downs from ILB and collect tackles.
4. 3-4 SOLB – Needs to be good in coverage and on the TE, only rushes 50 percent.
5. 2-4 WOLB – Optional to be a hand-on-ground guy, is the primary pressure guy on pass downs.
6. 2-4 WILB – Must be very smart, and good in coverage, backing up and keeping things in front.
7. 2-4 SILB – Must be athletic enough to run with players in coverage.
8. 2-4 SOLB – Must be a dynamic pass rusher and be able to do damage from an up position.

43 Defense

LE (Misi / Merling) DT (Odrick / Langford) DT (Starks / Odrick) RE (Wake / Langford)

SLB (Edds / Misi / Anderson) MLB (Crowder / Dobbins) WLB (Dansby)


34 Defense

LE (Odrick / Merling) NT (Starks / Soliai) RE (Langford)

SLB (Misi / Anderson) SILB (Crowder / Dobbins) WILB (Dansby / Torbor) WOLB (Wake / Misi / McCoy)


24 Defense

DT (Starks / Odrick / Langford / Merling)

SLB (Misi / Anderson) SILB (Edds / Dobbins) WILB (Dansby / Torbor) WOLB (Wake / Misi / McCoy)


Secondary

CB (Davis / Smith / WAllen / Carroll) FS (Jones / Culver / Clemons) SS (Bell / Jones)


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:11 pm
Posts: 9450
Location: Fargo, ND
:youwin:
I sent you a pm as this is turning too much into a back and forth between us; we can continue our discussion between the two of us. I want the topic of the thread to remain in tact instead of disintegrating into a one on one back and forth. Thanks PR.


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 Post subject: Re: starting defense ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:35 pm
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:clap:


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