View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:10 am



Reply to topic  [ 58 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking 
Author Message
Online
Phinfever Owner/Admin
Phinfever Owner/Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 8591
Location: Raleigh, NC
Post Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Barry Jackson wrote:
### Joe Philbin says Dion Jordan is “playing faster” because he’s “doing less thinking,” something Jordan also said Monday. Philbin wants to keep using him on special teams because “he’s a big guy that can run and is hard to block.”…


Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-b ... rylink=cpy

_________________
PHINFEVER FACEBOOK - JOIN US!

Image


Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:14 pm
Profile WWW
Phinfever Lead Moderator
Phinfever Lead Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 5905
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Yes! Great news,#3 overall is a special teams ace! :haha


Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:50 pm
Profile
Online
Phinfever Owner/Admin
Phinfever Owner/Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 8591
Location: Raleigh, NC
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Makchell wrote:
Yes! Great news,#3 overall is a special teams ace! :haha


I hope that Philbin means that Jordan is thinking less on defense; otherwise, this is another Cam Cameron comment without Jordan's family.

_________________
PHINFEVER FACEBOOK - JOIN US!

Image


Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:06 am
Profile WWW
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:57 am
Posts: 4652
Location: Houston, Texas
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
I know these guys have to dual sometimes with special teams, but do you really want to wear and tear Jordan on the kamikaze team vs. keeping him fresh to rush the QB?

Maybe with the roster size Philbin has to, but from the outside opinion, I would keep Jordan off.


Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:23 am
Profile
Online
Phinfever Owner/Admin
Phinfever Owner/Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 8591
Location: Raleigh, NC
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Here you go, Mak. It lets us all know that the idiocy last year was not all Sherman.

Barry Jackson wrote:
### Joe Philbin likes the idea of having Dion Jordan play special teams because “he’s a big guy that can run and is hard to block.” But Jason Taylor, a guest coach during the offseason program, told the Dolphins-owned radio show that there is “not a whole lot of time” to work with Jordan on pass rush moves because a lot of his practice time is being spent on special teams. That’s not ideal, obviously.

“Dion is bigger than me, more athletic than I am,” Taylor said. “He's going to be stronger. He's so willing to learn. Anything I tell him or suggest, he's like a sponge.”


Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-b ... rylink=cpy

_________________
PHINFEVER FACEBOOK - JOIN US!

Image


Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:22 pm
Profile WWW
Phinfever Blog Writer
Phinfever Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 4471
Location: Wellington, FL
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Im pretty sure our HC is in way over his head..


:headscratch

_________________
Caveat: These are the opinions of this user, and may differ from your opinion. Please use common sense before taking offense.
Reply may contain sarcasm


Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:28 am
Profile
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:34 am
Posts: 880
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
I don't know why it's so impressive that he's doing less thinking. I go for days without thinking much... it's not that hard.


Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:27 pm
Profile
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:43 am
Posts: 529
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
The thought just occurred to me that we haven't heard anything about DJ since the beginning of OTAs, that he looked bigger and American Gothic Joe wants him on ST, seeing as how his game is speed he should actually shine in shorts and tees, has the extra weight slowed him down?

_________________
Image


Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:48 am
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 20878
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Finster wrote:
The thought just occurred to me that we haven't heard anything about DJ since the beginning of OTAs


We haven't?

Might want to look again...

Quote:
-- Brent Grimes prevents Matt Hazel from bringing in Devlin's 2 point conversion throw. Dion Jordan collapsed the pocket, redeeming himself.

-- Offense was going for two points and Dion Jordan jumps offsides.


Quote:
-- Dion Jordan is now working as a defensive tackle, stunting inside and out.



Quote:
•Dolphins defensive end Dion Jordan continues to flash in practice. He had another would-be sack on Tannehill coming off the corner. Jordan put on about 17 pounds of muscle since last year and looks ready to make a second-year jump after an ineffective rookie year.



Quote:
Jordan flashed his ability this week in practice when he easily beat Miami backup left tackle Nate Garner for a would-be sack on Dolphins quarterback Ryan Tannehill


Quote:
And while he didn't practice much with the first-team defense these last few weeks -- raising eyebrows from some observers -- he played well in Thursday's scrimmage, disrupting plays in the backfield and even lining up at defensive tackle on occasion.


_________________
Image


Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:20 am
Profile
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:43 am
Posts: 529
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
I will rephrase, we haven't heard much of anything, a couple quips here and there, an almost sack, beating a back up for a sack, he is playing against back ups on the second team and is not making much noise at all, and as I mentioned he is a speed guy and is in shorts and tees so shouldn't he actually be shining?

No stories about him, just tweets from practice, and he's playing against back ups, not what I would call an impressive OTA and mini camp.

_________________
Image


Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:45 am
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 20878
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Finster wrote:
I will rephrase, we haven't heard much of anything, a couple quips here and there, an almost sack, beating a back up for a sack, he is playing against back ups on the second team and is not making much noise at all, and as I mentioned he is a speed guy and is in shorts and tees so shouldn't he actually be shining?


An almost sack and a would be sack are not the same thing. It is a would be sack because there is no contact right now... and if it is a would be sack of Tannehill and Jordan isn't going against first teamers, does that mean Tannehill is now 2nd string?

OTAs are usually when you hear about rookies and skill position players such as receivers and cornerbacks. Jordan isn't catching passes or covering receivers. The type of plays typically made at his position require contact...

Quote:
No stories about him


Really...

http://espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolphins/ ... r-stronger

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sport ... lth/ngHfB/

It seems as if your bias against Jordan is clouding your objectivity here.

_________________
Image


Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:28 am
Profile
Phinfever Draft Insider
Phinfever Draft Insider
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:14 pm
Posts: 3382
Location: Columbia, SC
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
I am expecting Dion to be a factor in 2014.

_________________
Image


Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:09 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 20878
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
From a guy who is out at camp EVERY day.

Quote:
5) Jordan is getting on the field. Defensive coordinator Kevin Coyle usually has Jordan lining up as a RDE, but he’s also been a DT in pass-rushing situation, a third-down pass-rushing specialist, dropping back into coverage, and sometimes playing the run on first and second downs. In other words, they’re trying to get the kid on the field. And Jordan has looked pretty good so far. There’s reason for optimism.


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miam ... 4006.story

_________________
Image


Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:10 pm
Profile
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:43 am
Posts: 529
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Rich wrote:
Finster wrote:
I will rephrase, we haven't heard much of anything, a couple quips here and there, an almost sack, beating a back up for a sack, he is playing against back ups on the second team and is not making much noise at all, and as I mentioned he is a speed guy and is in shorts and tees so shouldn't he actually be shining?


An almost sack and a would be sack are not the same thing. It is a would be sack because there is no contact right now... and if it is a would be sack of Tannehill and Jordan isn't going against first teamers, does that mean Tannehill is now 2nd string?

OTAs are usually when you hear about rookies and skill position players such as receivers and cornerbacks. Jordan isn't catching passes or covering receivers. The type of plays typically made at his position require contact...

Quote:
No stories about him


Really...

http://espn.go.com/blog/miami-dolphins/ ... r-stronger

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sport ... lth/ngHfB/

It seems as if your bias against Jordan is clouding your objectivity here.


I wasn't talking about the would be sack, I was talking about DJ collapsing the pocket after jumping offsides, I am aware of what a would be sack is during no contact drills.

Last I heard neither Wake nor Vernon plays WR, they are making plays and headlining stories playing against the starters, the phenom DJ is not making much hay against back ups.

As far as the links you posted, lol, one of them is from the beginning of OTAs, as I mentioned in my first comment, the other is about him being healthy and stronger.

Neither of those stories is talking about how he's tearing it up, we have heard very few things about DJs playing during OTAs or mini camp, and as I said his game is based on speed, so shouldn't this be in his favor, against slower Olineman, playing in shorts and tees, playing against back ups?

The real work starts in TC but for a player trying to prove himself he hasn't done much, do you remember Wake's first OTAs, mini camp and TC? he was a force, making plays everywhere, and getting the attention you get when you actually do make plays, DJ has yet to do any of that type of stuff, and he's a 3rd overall, so you judge him as a 3rd overall, as Tomlin likes to say, "the standard is the standard".

_________________
Image


Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:17 pm
Profile
Online
Phinfever Owner/Admin
Phinfever Owner/Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 8591
Location: Raleigh, NC
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Barry Jackson wrote:
Dion Jordan said he wants to develop a pass rush move that Jason Taylor had (“a long arm stick right in the chest of the offensive tackle”) but “I haven’t been able to do that much because we’re not in pads.”

He said Taylor’s biggest value to him during the offseason program has been “teaching me a lot about fundamentals.”

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-b ... rylink=cpy

_________________
PHINFEVER FACEBOOK - JOIN US!

Image


Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:34 pm
Profile WWW
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 20878
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Finster wrote:
Last I heard neither Wake nor Vernon plays WR, they are making plays and headlining stories playing against the starters, the phenom DJ is not making much hay against back ups.


Where are these headlines? Vernon showed up in the scrimmage with 2.5 sacks (a scrimmage in which Jordan had a sack as well). Other than that, where are these headlines for Wake and Vernon?

Quote:
As far as the links you posted, lol, one of them is from the beginning of OTAs, as I mentioned in my first comment, the other is about him being healthy and stronger.


You said there were no stories about him.

Quote:
Neither of those stories is talking about how he's tearing it up, we have heard very few things about DJs playing during OTAs or mini camp, and as I said his game is based on speed, so shouldn't this be in his favor, against slower Olineman, playing in shorts and tees, playing against back ups?


Again, if you read the play by play on Twitter from the blog writers, Jordan shows up. So do a lot of other players. But in your mind, you haven't read this so it never happened.

Quote:
do you remember Wake's first OTAs, mini camp and TC?


No, and accurately... neither do you.

Quote:
DJ has yet to do any of that type of stuff


So you've been out at training camp a lot to know this?

_________________
Image


Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:19 pm
Profile
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:43 am
Posts: 529
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Fair enough Dave, but why don't Wake and Vernon need pads, and they are playing first team O, other DEs are making waves on our team so the no pads thing doesn't hold that much water imo, especially since he is a speed rusher not a bull rusher, like Wake and Vernon who are making plays with their speed against those big slow Olineman.

Here is a quote from the article Rich posted,

" Don’t put too much stock in RDE Olivier Vernon and LDE Cam Wake dominating Albert and James in the “Spring Game.” Players weren’t wearing pads. That robs the OTs of being physical. "

Then you look at the quote from the link Rich posted, how they are moving him around to try and find a spot for him,

" In other words, they’re trying to get the kid on the field. "

I'm sorry guys but that is bad news for a 3rd overall pick, also, "reason for optimism" is not what you want to hear about a 3rd overall pick, that is something you hear about later round picks, what you want to hear is "WOW, you've got to see this kid play", "OTs are having a tough time with him", and also hearing quotes from Olineman singing his praises because of the hard time he's giving them, like Albert did of Vernon, from a 3rd overall pick I want to hear the writer say he's "impressed" as opposed to having "reason for optimism".

As I said in the first comment I made on this subject, I am simply pointing out something I noticed, or didn't notice to be more precise, there has not been much news on DJ besides him being healthy and bigger, this thread is the last time he's been brought up on this site, the reason is that there has been little news on him and there has been no head turning plays to be overblown by the media, so no headlines pretty much = no threads.

_________________
Image


Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:21 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 20878
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Finster wrote:
"In other words, they’re trying to get the kid on the field."


Quoting part of something to give it different context.

:boo:

When you add in the rest of the quote, that they are using him at RDE, at DT on passing, in coverage, it takes on a different meaning.

_________________
Image


Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:28 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 20878
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
From a guy who is out at camp every day.

Quote:
And Jordan has looked pretty good so far. There’s reason for optimism.


From a guy who is not.

Quote:
I haven't heard anything about Jordan doing well so he must be sucking


Who to believe.......

_________________
Image


Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:31 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 20878
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
From yesterday:

A healthy Dion Jordan looking much improved at minicamp

http://msn.foxsports.com/florida/story/ ... ins-061914

_________________
Image


Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:31 pm
Profile
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:43 am
Posts: 529
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Your a funny guy Rich, where are the headlines? lol, how about Wake and Vernon dominate spring game, lol.

I said there were no stories SINCE THE START OF OTAs, when there were stories about him being bigger and healthy.

LOL, I did read it, and as I said earlier, (consistently have to do this with you, it's that reading comp thing isn't it) he has a couple tweets against back ups, who cares.

Actually I do remember, not that you would have any clue, you can't remember what I said just a few comments up, lol, I have followed him very closely since we signed him, he is the main reason I started posting online.

No I haven't been to camp, but the writers who are there are not singing his praises, they are saying there is "reason for optimism", that sums it up, if your not making an impression, no one talks about you.

_________________
Image


Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:33 pm
Profile
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
Phinfever Live!, Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:59 am
Posts: 20878
Location: Miami, FL
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Finster wrote:
Your a funny guy Rich, where are the headlines?


That's one headline for one practice. Where are these articles talking about how awesome these guys have been in OTAs?

Quote:
how about Wake and Vernon dominate spring game


Wake is credited for half a sack against a rookie. That's earth shattering stuff.

Abou Dion Jordan at the spring game:

Quote:
he played well in Thursday's scrimmage, disrupting plays in the backfield and even lining up at defensive tackle on occasion.


http://msn.foxsports.com/florida/story/ ... ins-061914

He played well... disrupting plays.

That's pretty black and white.

Quote:
No I haven't been to camp, but the writers who are there are not singing his praises


Yeah, except for Chris Perkins and James Walker. And by the way, those guys don't get to see all of practice, but they see more than you. I take what is posted in OTAs with a grain of salt, but I'll trust their eyes over your bias.

_________________
Image


Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:40 pm
Profile
Phinfever Blog Writer
Phinfever Blog Writer
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:43 pm
Posts: 4471
Location: Wellington, FL
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Every reporter,ex player etc who has been around the kid at training says the same thing..

And as far as biased, I am still pissed we traded up for him... But cant argue he posses something special and unique.
Just hope our coaches are competent enough to develop and utilize it..

_________________
Caveat: These are the opinions of this user, and may differ from your opinion. Please use common sense before taking offense.
Reply may contain sarcasm


Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:50 am
Profile
Phinfever Lead Moderator
Phinfever Lead Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 5905
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
I'm glad he's "improving" and has "potential", but so far he's a major bust for being drafted #3 overall. We will see...


Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:20 am
Profile
Online
Phinfever Owner/Admin
Phinfever Owner/Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 8591
Location: Raleigh, NC
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
10acjed wrote:
And as far as biased, I am still pissed we traded up for him... But cant argue he posses something special and unique.


Dang, I'm still excited about moving up. We got him for a bargain trade, and if he turns up to be close to as good as Jason Taylor, it was a great move. Some times you have to roll the dice to try to get playmakers. The team has plenty of roll players.

Now that Ireland is no longer making the personnel decisions and he is healthy, I am interested to see whether Philbin and his coaches will decide to use him more.


There is this though ....

Barry Jackson wrote:
### Jordan isn’t the only defensive end who has put on weight. Philbin said Derrick Shelby added five or six pounds, and Wake said he has done the same. Perhaps that makes all of them a bit more stout against the run. We'll see.
Miami Herald

And this ....

Barry Jackson wrote:
### For those hoping Dion Jordan will take playing time away from Derrick Shelby, be advised of these comments from Philbin, who really likes Shelby:

“The thing about Shelby is you watch him on film and the cut ups at the end of the season and then you probably gain a better appreciation for him than you do during the year,” Philbin said. “He’s very, very disciplined. He really carries out his assignments and his technique well. He’s smart. He’s in the right spot. So he’s made a nice contribution over these couple of years. I’m excited about what he can do for us this year as well.”
Miami Herald

_________________
PHINFEVER FACEBOOK - JOIN US!

Image


Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:21 am
Profile WWW
Phinfever Lead Moderator
Phinfever Lead Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 5905
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Shelby seems like a diamond in the rough and a "bargain".


Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:23 am
Profile
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:43 am
Posts: 529
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
I thought Shelby was a better player than DJ last year.

_________________
Image


Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:28 am
Profile
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:34 am
Posts: 880
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
If only we had the same quality of depth on our O-line as we do on the D-line. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that we have 5 competent starters, much less backups. This will be the biggest test of Hickey's effectiveness.


Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:41 am
Profile
Online
Phinfever Owner/Admin
Phinfever Owner/Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:41 am
Posts: 8591
Location: Raleigh, NC
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Finster wrote:
I thought Shelby was a better player than DJ last year.


Only against the run. I like both players, but in passing situations, Dion Jordon should be on the field. Jordan is going to be a beast.

Image

https://www.profootballfocus.com/data/b ... numgames=1

_________________
PHINFEVER FACEBOOK - JOIN US!

Image


Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:01 am
Profile WWW
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!

Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 5926
Location: Lancaster, PA
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
A team with 4 good defensive ends should be having success.


Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:46 pm
Profile
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:43 am
Posts: 529
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Big Dave wrote:
Finster wrote:
I thought Shelby was a better player than DJ last year.


Only against the run. I like both players, but in passing situations, Dion Jordon should be on the field. Jordan is going to be a beast.

Image

https://www.profootballfocus.com/data/b ... numgames=1


I respect your opinion Dave, and you have more faith in DJ then I do, but imo what I saw from DJ last year wasn't great on either count, I thought he was quite useless against the run and that he was a mediocre pass rusher.

I don't put a lot of stock in PFF's grading system, I like all the different stats they have just not the grading system, I'm not sure what they consider a hurry, or to be more accurate what all the different people they hire to watch games each individually consider a hurry (a huge flaw in their system imo), but I watched every snap he took and he rarely beat his man on pass rushes, I would have to guess that a lot of the hurries were him reaching his long arm in and moving the QB, like on the Flacco INT he forced, but those aren't quality hurries imo.

What you see from good pass rushers is getting past the man in front of them so you have a clean path to the QB, this doesn't guarantee a sack but if you consistently beat the guy in front of you it will lead to quality pressures and sacks, neither of DJs sacks were had like that, both were coverage sacks, one of which was a 15yard face mask penalty.

QB hits is a telling stat here, with only 7 hurries Shelby had 3 hits, with 18 DJ had only 4, Wake had twice the amount of hurries but 4 times the amount of hits, this is because DJ isn't getting past his man.

I hope your right Dave, I hope he is a beast, but from what I saw from him in college and then last year, where I saw exactly the same flaws, I don't have a lot of faith.

_________________
Image


Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:50 pm
Profile
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:26 pm
Posts: 1664
Location: Delray Beach, Florida
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
k-dash wrote:
If only we had the same quality of depth on our O-line as we do on the D-line. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that we have 5 competent starters, much less backups. This will be the biggest test of Hickey's effectiveness.


On paper, Hickey did a decent job of rebuilding the offensive line. It's up to the coaching staff to develop these guys now, and if it fails, I would put the majority of the blame on the coaching staff, not Hickey.

_________________
Image


Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:55 pm
Profile
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:17 am
Posts: 3370
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Finster wrote:
...

I would have to guess that a lot of the hurries were him reaching his long arm in and moving the QB, like on the Flacco INT he forced, but those aren't quality hurries imo.

What you see from good pass rushers is getting past the man in front of them so you have a clean path to the QB, this doesn't guarantee a sack but if you consistently beat the guy in front of you it will lead to quality pressures and sacks, neither of DJs sacks were had like that, both were coverage sacks, one of which was a 15yard face mask penalty.

QB hits is a telling stat here, with only 7 hurries Shelby had 3 hits, with 18 DJ had only 4, Wake had twice the amount of hurries but 4 times the amount of hits, this is because DJ isn't getting past his man.

I hope your right Dave, I hope he is a beast, but from what I saw from him in college and then last year, where I saw exactly the same flaws, I don't have a lot of faith.


A forced INT is not a quality hurry? I don't think I understand your definition of a quality hurry. imo anytime you can make the qb move off his spot, flush him out of the pocket or throw it before he is ready is a good thing or a quality hurry. Disrupting his timing and making the qb uncomfortable hopefully leading to bad decisions are good things to my way of thinking.

I think I see a fair amount of sacks coming from good pass rushers while they are still engaged with a blocker and pushes him into or by the qb and makes an athletic play to lunge at the qb. I would think that a clean run at the qb would be more rare but I have no stats to back that up.

I am not sure what you mean by consistently (more often than not?). If that is combined with the previous statement in your sentence of "getting past the man in front of them so you have a clean path to the QB" I don't think any current players in the nfl are preforming to your standards.

I am not sure if you are like me or not but sometimes I form a positive or negative opinion,for whatever reason, of a player and tend to look for the things that support my initial opinion. I try to guard against it and can be successful when I realize what I am doing.

I wonder if it is possible that, on this occasion, it may have happened to you as regards this player?


Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:46 pm
Profile
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!

Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:34 am
Posts: 880
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Thank you, Aqnor. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is called disagreeing without being disagreeable.


Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:53 pm
Profile
Phinfever Lead Moderator
Phinfever Lead Moderator

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 5905
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Maybe the QB could have bought another second y not moving. Maybe the hurry is on the QB not being good? Maybe Brady would have "brushed" off the arm in the face and made a play. QB hurries are very subjective. In either case, DJ gets a pass cause he was hurt. we will see...


Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:53 pm
Profile
Phinfever Starter
Phinfever Starter

Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:12 pm
Posts: 223
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Ive said this before in other posts but i really think if the offense can get going and put up more than 20 points a game then the defense will be steller. Jordan could play as an outside linebacker in the nickel with wake and vernon and shelby all on the field with odrick. Thats five great pass rushers on the field. Could be a lot like the colts of 2009 who philip wheeler was a part of.


Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:35 pm
Profile
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:43 am
Posts: 529
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
AQNOR wrote:
Finster wrote:
...

I would have to guess that a lot of the hurries were him reaching his long arm in and moving the QB, like on the Flacco INT he forced, but those aren't quality hurries imo.

What you see from good pass rushers is getting past the man in front of them so you have a clean path to the QB, this doesn't guarantee a sack but if you consistently beat the guy in front of you it will lead to quality pressures and sacks, neither of DJs sacks were had like that, both were coverage sacks, one of which was a 15yard face mask penalty.

QB hits is a telling stat here, with only 7 hurries Shelby had 3 hits, with 18 DJ had only 4, Wake had twice the amount of hurries but 4 times the amount of hits, this is because DJ isn't getting past his man.

I hope your right Dave, I hope he is a beast, but from what I saw from him in college and then last year, where I saw exactly the same flaws, I don't have a lot of faith.


A forced INT is not a quality hurry? I don't think I understand your definition of a quality hurry. imo anytime you can make the qb move off his spot, flush him out of the pocket or throw it before he is ready is a good thing or a quality hurry. Disrupting his timing and making the qb uncomfortable hopefully leading to bad decisions are good things to my way of thinking.


I appreciate your reply, but let me try to clarify what I was saying, first off I agree, any QB hurry is a good thing, and sometimes these types of hurries end up being big plays, a strip sack, INT or incompletion, what I meant by quality hurries is not the outcome of a particular play, it's the bulk of his hurries are reach ins, that he rarely beats the man in front of him and has a clear path to the QB.

Quote:
I think I see a fair amount of sacks coming from good pass rushers while they are still engaged with a blocker and pushes him into or by the qb and makes an athletic play to lunge at the qb. I would think that a clean run at the qb would be more rare but I have no stats to back that up.


It's true that there are sacks while the defender is still engaged, we have a quality pass rusher in Wake, now Wake will get reach in hurries, sacks while he is engaged, but these are gravy that goes with the meat, because Wake does beat the man in front him and get clear paths to the QB, this is why he has so many hurries and more importantly, hits, you know those plays where he's coming and the QB gets rid of the ball and WHAMO, QB is on the ground, this is what I mean by quality hurries, I probably should say high quality hurries, which is what you get from quality pass rushers.

To clarify, you don't actually need the WHAMO to have a high quality hurry, that is the highest, but if your clean path to the QB forces him to get rid of it that is also what I would consider a high quality hurry, it really just is beating the man in front of you and getting that path, regardless of the out come, because sometimes those hurries end up as TDs, that doesn't take away from the job that player did, it's the flip side of a low quality hurry turning into a big play.

Quote:
I am not sure what you mean by consistently (more often than not?). If that is combined with the previous statement in your sentence of "getting past the man in front of them so you have a clean path to the QB" I don't think any current players in the nfl are preforming to your standards.


When I say consistently I mean it happens in nearly every game, and it happens sporadically throughout the game, there are no players that do it more often than not, but you can count on Wake getting past his man at least a few times a game, some games less some games more, but most games it happens a few times, I remember 1 from DJ last year, which does coincide with his hit stats, 4, 2 sacks, the Flacco INT and the 1 high quality hurry.

Quote:
I am not sure if you are like me or not but sometimes I form a positive or negative opinion,for whatever reason, of a player and tend to look for the things that support my initial opinion. I try to guard against it and can be successful when I realize what I am doing.

I wonder if it is possible that, on this occasion, it may have happened to you as regards this player?


Fair enough, we are all human after all, but I don't think thats the case here, maybe it's like Mak said and he gets a pass because he was injured, personally I don't put too much on that because he never looked injured nor did he ever seem to favor 1 arm, and pass rushing power is done mostly with your lower body, upper body is used more for position and lower body is where the power and speed come from, especially with the type of player he is, bull rushers use more upper body strength, but still most of the power comes from the lower body.

I do pride myself on looking at things as objectively as I can, I consider myself a realist, I seek the truth in all things, i am not always right, and I don't have a problem admitting it if I was wrong, the knowledge is much more important to me, with DJ he has exhibited what he did in college, which really wasn't much, I watched a lot of tape on him from college and saw what we saw last year, bad against the run and a mediocre pass rusher, and he was much more hype than substance.

73----48--121--29.0--14.5 ---0---0---0----2----0---0---0---4
T------A---TT---TFL----S ---INT-----------PD---FR----------FF
104---77--181--50.5--33.0---1---3---3.0--12----1---0---0--10

Here are DJs and Von Millers #s from college, like Tomlin likes to say, the standard is the standard, so if we are giving up 2 potential starters, I would like to get a guy that was a beast in college, a man among boys, a guy who is "playing in the back field", VM was that guy, DJ was not, so think about it, we gave up more to get DJ than Denver did to get VM, he only cost them 1 draft pick.

DJ imo is a hype player like Vernon Gholston, not comparing them as players, just saying that both are more hype than substance, so with what we saw last year, combined with what he did or didn't do in college, I think there is plenty of basis for my opinion on DJ, why am I to expect a guy who did not get a lot of sacks in college to become a good pass rusher, because the vast majority of players who did not get a lot of sacks in college don't get a lot of sacks at a higher level of play.

As I said I do appreciate your reply, I hope I have clarified my position on DJ to you and everyone else, I do hope it changes in the future and he is one of the rare guys that actually improves his production from college, but based on what I've seen so far I don't have a lot of faith, but I do love the civil debate!

:yay:

_________________
Image


Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:29 am
Profile
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
Phinfever Blog Writer - Fridays
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:43 am
Posts: 529
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Here is a Cam Wake video where you can see what I am saying about beating the man in front of you and getting that path, he does it on many of these plays, enjoy!



Click here to learn how to add YouTube Videos to your phpBB forum

_________________
Image


Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:53 am
Profile
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:57 am
Posts: 4652
Location: Houston, Texas
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Finster, I think that DJ had all the attributes coming out of college last year to be a Von Miller like edge rusher and it is safe to say that his first season was a complete wash as it is so hard to judge off of the fact that he came into mini camp late from college along with really being damaged goods from the get go and that lingered the entire season.

The kid is now healthy and more beefed up. Hopefully your analogy of using Gholston's name in the same breath is way off base and after how he produces this season.

In fact, we have three draft picks that I don't believe we saw near their full potential or capability, Jordan was one, Dallas Thomas and Jamar Taylor all due to injuries. Hard to play with the type of injuries these three kids had and expect them to excel in the NFL.

I think Jordan is going to create havoc getting to the QB, but he needs to show and prove my gut feeling.

:yay:


Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:46 am
Profile
2014 Phinfever VIP!
2014 Phinfever VIP!

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:17 am
Posts: 3370
Post Re: Dion Jordan playing faster and doing less thinking
Finster thanks for your clarification and explanation. I don't agree with your analysis but I will think about some of your points.


Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:04 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 58 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], IamPZ, TommyNoleFin and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2010 phpBB Group.
Designed by Coots & IamPZ - Phinfever.com.