Quick post.

IMO... We have a nice crew of WR's where all of them play the slot position and no one is really a big target downfield (except for Ginn...).

Assuming we get 1 WR via draft, FA, trade or you name it... Who is the odd man out?

1.-Camarillo? (we signed him in 2008 for a 4 year deal or something like that. He has probably the best hands of all the crew and is a very reliable target)
2.-Hartline? (great rookie season, plays like Camarillo but faster.)
3.-Bess? (very good at catching and running routes... I kinda question his brakeaway speed and his job in special teams)
4.-Ginn? (there isn't a lot to say here... I guess everyone has their own opinnion)

So wich of this 4 starters last year would be your odd man out?

Mine is Bess or Camarillo for a draft pick. I wouldn't get rid of Hartline and would give Ginn one last shot next season.

Your thoughts?

why would you get rid of hartline & keep cam? you just said hartline is like cam but faster. my thaughts is to get rid of cam being that him & hartline are about the same hartline is a pretty clutch wr & like you said he is faster & i thaught he had a good rookie season. he will only get better.
i still dont want to get rid of ginn just because you never know when he is gonna bust a big one. most likely on st but he can bust it in the recieving area to. i think we just need to throw to him more often. after saprano challenged him last year he seemed to pick up the pace. i say tell him if you dont break out this season your gone.lol

but that is just my appinion.apinions are like bungholes every 1 got 1 just a lil diff.lol

...go re read his post

I didn't say that... I said get rid of Cam OR Bess and keep Hartline and Ginn.

And yes I agree with you that I would give Ginn one more year.

I don't think we could get rid of bess, he has way too much upside - but then again, so does camarillo.

It's hard to say, because really, all of our wide receivers have talent, but as a whole they lack explosiveness. We need that one missing piece to make things pop, and sadly, I think camarillo would be the one to go.

If the fins add just 1 WR then why would any of the 4 have to be the odd man out? I thought the fins ran with 5 wr's last season? Or maybe they would go with 5 next season if they had the talent to do so?

The odd man out would be Pat Turner, the same guy who was out all last season.

sry i must have missed read ur post it still early im not with it yet.lol

I, for one, am tired of our players having "upside" or "potential". I want players that have "it"!

I think Bess is the best and most reliable receiver on our team. I'd keep him above all others.
I thoroughly enjoy Hartline's tenacity and toughness.

I am done waiting for Ted Ginn to develop into a #1 receiver.

and that led us to letting the patsies have Wes Welker.

No...Welker had "it"...and those that didn't see that, don't know football. Camarillo, Bess and Hartline have "it". Ginn does not.

Plus the Pats had a poison pill in their original contract for Welker that would have made it very difficult for Miami to match. The Pats then offered up 2nd & 7th round picks to the Dolphins instead. The Dolphins knew what they had and they only tendered him as a 2nd round pick.

so what exactly is "it" - is "it" the ability to NOT make big plays, because if that is "it" then you are correct.

Not this again.

I'll spell it out simply.

We did not let the Patsies have Welker. He was a an RFA that had a 2nd round tender. The Pats offered the tender and a contract to Welker that had a poison pill making it impossible for us to match. In order to avoid any "ill will" stories, they offered a 7th as well to go along with the 2nd.

We didn't give anyone away.

Thanks for making it so simple for me, I have a hard time understanding easy concepts.

Really? So when Hartline muscled the ball away from a safety in the Tennessee game, it wasn't a big play? When Camarillo ran 64 yards for Miami's only win in 07, that wasn't a big play? When Welker consistently made 3rd downs into first downs, and made 3 guys miss at a time on punt returns, including one that went 70 some yards against the Patriots in a Primetime game all the way down to the 1 aren't big plays?
When Bess made that diving grab against the Steelers and got two feet in the back of the endzone, that wasn't a big play? Or when he circled around against the Panthers on a big down to keep the drive alive when Carolina had momentum and made the catch, that wasn't a big play? Or Camarillo's beautiful route against New England in Miami this year on 4&6 and made a diving catch...that wasn't a big play?

The "it" factor is making plays when they need to be made, and being someone that your teammates can rely on again and again. These four men have "it". And you have selective memory.

You don't sign a guy like Welker before he becomes a RFA, you are giving him away. Simple as that.

Bye bye Ginn Family!

my thoughts exactly, keebler. very well said

Until he went to NE, he had never done anything special to warrant not allowing him to test the market. He had all of 1 TD while here, and wasn't the same receiver he is now until he had Moss on the other side with Brady throwing to him. I'm not going to go so far as to say that he is a system guy who can easily be replaced by the next one, though a nobody had Welkeresque numbers after his injury this season, but I will say that he hadn't shown anything like what he is now while he was here.

your right, I guess you can make a case that every play in a game is a big play. By my overall definition of a big play is a play of 20 or more yards and Ginn is the only man on the roster "now" that has the ability to do that consistently, whether it be an end around or down the field. You forget about Ginns big catch against the seahawks, go ahead TD against the Jets in week 17 in 08, wins the game for us against the jets this year, destroys Revis in the Monday night game, but your right lets get rid of this loser he just doesn't have it.

But, if he continues to drop the ball like he did this year then something needs to be done.

I agree 100%

Really? I made a case that every play in a game is a big play? No, I didn't. Every one those that I mentioned were in critical moments of the game. I'm pretty all those plays I mentioned were more than 20 yards as well.

Ginn does NOT do ANYTHING consistently, so it's just asinine to propose he's the ONLY one that does. He runs fast. That's it. Yes, he made a nice catch against Seattle (even though Miami was in control of that game and they were able to run that trick play so it wasn't necessarily a critical play), and has had good games against the Jets. I give him his props for that. But as a reliable guy (the "it" factor)? He is not...his ratio of detrimental plays to good plays are scary bad. He's more a liability out on the field than reliable.

If we get a good WR through FA or a trade then I would be very happy with that guy plus Bess, Ginn and Hartline. I think I'd actually like that group a lot. Camarillo is a decent player but if I had to choose between the two I'd have to go with Hartline. I wouldn't get rid of Bess or Ginn, if it was my decision.

We got a 2nd for Wes Welker the same year that Randy Moss went for a 4th. Welker wouldn't be the #1 option this team needs either so I'm not terribly sad to see him elsewhere.

Will Brennan Marion be back? He was an awesome player at Tulsa. Yes....they had a pass happy attack.....but his yards per catch were just ridiculous!!! He can return kicks as well. Unfortunately, he had a ligament tear in college....and I believe he had one before last season. Anyone heard about his status lately?

So you're making a case that our other receivers are reliable??

The only guy who came close to being reliable this year was Brian Hartline, and even he had his "whoopsie" moments...

Camarillo and Bess were not reliable?? Camarillo did not just a single pass all season, and Bess was a 3rd down coverting machine.

The only WR on our team that I would not give the nametag of reliable, is Ginn.

Yeaaaa... one of the worst receiving cores in the league... if that's what "reliable" gets us... I'll pass.

They can be reliable as they want, fact is, they aint scorin. Camarillo had a whopping, ZERO touchdowns. Bess had 2.

Hartline led the group with 3... even Ginn had 1 receiving and couple returning.

At the end of the day, all that matters is the points... our receivers need to learn how to get into the endzone more often.

Camarillo did not drop* (correction from first post).

And what you are asking for is big plays out of WR's...just because they are not big play guys does not mean that they are reliable, and that works the other way around to.

Ginn is a big play guy, but is not reliable at all. Bess, Cam, and Hartline are all very reliable receivers...Maybe not big play guys, but very reliable.

Well, however you wanna categorize them, that's fine... it doesn't hide the fact that they didn't get it done this year. They weren't horrible receivers, but no one really stepped up and gave us that "it" factor that we'd like to have since we have a young QB.

Who knows what will happen with them, this coaching staff always keeps us guessing.

No, they got Samson Satele for Welker...a testament for how truly stupid the whole ordeal was. In my opinion, you do not let guys like Welker go because he makes your team better.

Man my memory is getting worse and worse... I didn't realize the Patriots traded Samson Satele to us.

What do you define as the "it" factor? These guys made big plays. Miami scored points. They were not one of the worst receiving corps, they did what they were asked to do. Yes, Bess and Hartline may have made some mistakes, but everyone will make a mistake especially when you're young. Camarillo seemingly never makes a mistake, and if anyone wants to say that the late hit against Tennessee was a mistake I'd tell them that what he did was more heads up than anyone. I was screaming at the tv for someone to touch him because he fell down and the Titans were trying to pick him up...then Camarillo came in with the tag. It was a bull crap call, and I tip my cap to Greg for being the one to realize that the whistle had not blown, and for tagging the guy to prevent him from getting up and getting closer into field goal range.

That, my friend, is the "it" factor in my opinion. Henne has "it." Instead of taking a five yards loss while outside the pocket he throws it away out of bounds. A safe play, a smart play...those are the kind of plays that need to be made to win games.

I'd take Bess, Camarillo, Hartline and Welker every day of the week. And ya know what? We'd score a lot of points.

You're misusing the word "reliable".

Not really... I said they can be reliable as they want, but they're still not scoring.

I went away from the reliable argument into a different argument... either way... it's obviously a difference in opinion...

Seems a lot of guys here will stick their heads out for this very group of receivers that they've been yelling about all year... but a fans memory is for the short term I guess.

I'm not argueing that we do not have a big play guy at WR right now PZ. I'm not saying Cam or Bess are big time WR's who are going to make tons of big play for you, I'm just saying they're reliable.

I agree with you on what your saying now. But I would argue that Bess can become a big time playmaker at WR.

Yes really.

Ok... still not seeing an issue with the way I'm using the word... and I don't see the relevance this "grammar" lesson has with the topic.

I like the WR's we have now... I think they can be good at times... but I don't like the inconsistent play all that much... Bess had a fine season... but there were games where he absolutely disappeared.

I'll give Cam the benefit of the doubt in his first year back from serious knee surgery.

Hartline was a rook taken in the 4th round and made more plays than most of us imagined he would.

Ginn added some explosiveness here and there, but not nearly as much as we hoped in his 3rd year in the league. Let's hope his 3rd year with this coaching staff turns out better.

Grammar would involve sentence structure, tense, etc. This is an example of not knowing what the word means. And it has all the relevance in the world because the one thing our receivers are (except for Ginn) is reliable.