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 Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player 
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Post Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
Well, this is encouraging, but remember that he has nowhere to go but up.

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Pat White most improved player?
28 Jun 2010 07:26:28 -0400

Miami Dolphins RB Ricky Williams said QB Pat White has been the team's most improved player during offseason practices, according to Barry Jackson, of the Miami Herald. Williams says there is "no doubt" that White is the Dolphins' most improved player. Williams added, "He's a quarterback now."

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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
The thing with White is he has to run the ball better to win his role, that sounds counter intuitive but his role as the #2/Pat Package player requires that he can not only run the WC but also the wishbone.

White had 52 snaps last season, and 5 passes, the majority of the time he was a Rb not a Qb so he has to improve that portion of his game.


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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
I'm a huge Pat White fan here... but isn't kind of easy to be the most improved when you were so bad the year before?


Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:45 am
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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
IamPZ wrote:
I'm a huge Pat White fan here... but isn't kind of easy to be the most improved when you were so bad the year before?


Yeah, but there's no talk of Patrick Turner improving at all. IMO I'd much rather see Turner develop into a stud WR than have a gimmick player like White.

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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
joeschmoe wrote:
IamPZ wrote:
I'm a huge Pat White fan here... but isn't kind of easy to be the most improved when you were so bad the year before?


Yeah, but there's no talk of Patrick Turner improving at all. IMO I'd much rather see Turner develop into a stud WR than have a gimmick player like White.


I disagree... I think White could really be huge for us if he can get used to the speed of the game. Once he gets into his comfort zone he can really light it up.


Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:58 am
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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
I never really understood why everyone has been hating on Pat White. Yes, he looks like a mighty midget in uniform, and his helmet is bigger than the majority of his body. But, come on, was he really meant to succeed last year??? He was brought in for his White package, at critical moments of the game more often than not, and would be coming off the bench "cold". Everyone here has been saying the detriment with the wildcat is that Henne would be coming off the field just as he is starting to "warm up". Arent these things kinda loosely tied?? Henne when he is warm, comes off for the WC and interferes with his rythmn. Pat White enters the game without any rythmn and plays a grand total of 5 plays or so, and never has the opportunity to get warm..... kinda unfair.

I think Pat WHite is an asset we have yet to utilize. I think he could be best used as a scat back during our 1st quarter WC plays. Let him use Pat Cobbs role from last year, just to get on the field, and whether be a decoy, or an actual WC threat (but not to have him as the trigger man). After he's had a few reps in the game, and been viewed as a "non factor" or a lulled decoy, thats when you insert the White Pistol package. Hes been on the field, gotten a sweat going. Seen how the D attacks him, and it wouldnt be so blatantly obvious that he is gonna tuck and run after the snap, because hes been on the field already, and in motion.

Defenses can see a mile a way when we are gona pull something slippery. This is something I didnt like about last year. The Wildcat lost its disguise when we started pulling the QB off the field in place of another RB or TE. Yes, we bulked up our strengths for the play, but when you see Henne run to the sidelines, you know a gimmick is on the way. Same situation, you see White trot onto the field and we all start thinking WHITECAT, or WILDPAT, here it comes..... the problem is this, how do we disguise the fact that White is coming into the game, without detracting from effectiveness? Simple, intrograte him into the offense gradually without the pressing need to use him!!!

Ok, think about it this way. First possession of the 1st quarter, no White. second possession.... you see White enter the game in a 4 WR set with Henne under center, goes in motion out of the slot and shimmies over to fake a screen, nothing happens...... 3 plays later he enters again, same position, goes in motion and fakes a hand off, and disappears into the LOS. Next quarter, you see him enter the game in WC set up, same position yet Ronnie as the trigger, goes in motion and nada. Next play, Hand off to Pat White in motion, fakes the pass, tucks it, turns the corner and gets a positive gainer....

Now the opposing team is clueless, cause he hasnt done a whole lot of anything, but hes been used a few ways. They assume he is being utilized in a motion slot package wheter WC or not. Then we throw him out there at QB for the Pat Package..... hes had a few reps to get the feel of the game, and can be unpredictable...... PLUS seeing him run out on the field without Henne out there, it doesnt neccessarily mean he will be under center, cause hes been used from the slot up until now. The predictability of the Pat White Pistol is gone, because the whole first half his role was setting the D up for this exact circumstance..... opinions?


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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
It would be good if White could handle kick returns as well that would open up a roster spot and create more value from White.

Even if White is the #2 Qb, he is not there because of his great passing, he is there because of his athletic ability and it would make sense to see if he can return the ball.


Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:42 am
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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
I hate to say it, But I think its only a matter of time before the lights go out again for him. As he had a concussion last year and a head injury his senior year at West Virginia.

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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
When you as far down as Pat was the only place to go is up. He could be the most improved player and still the number 4 QB in this bunch. Hopefully, he can find a nice niche on this team and contribute a little bit.


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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
Alex13 wrote:
I hate to say it, But I think its only a matter of time before the lights go out again for him. As he had a concussion last year and a head injury his senior year at West Virginia.


I agree ... one more hit like that they will have to peel him off the furf.

Still , I hope he improves , I have a nice side bet that he completes at least 5 passes.

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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
Man...we gave up on Beck much quicker than this....and he actually completed some passes....and he had no blocking and no one to throw to.

Pat White is not likely to make the team. Turner isn't any more likely to make the team. This is just for media consumption and to give us something to talk about. Pat White was absolutely awful last year and gave us no indication at all that he was ready to turn the corner, unless it was to get on the road to the CFL or the Arena League. He was a great college athlete though. We already have three QB's. Pennington, the mentor....Henne, the starter....and Thigpen, who can run AND pass.

Turner never saw the field last year, despite being on one of the poorest receiving corps in football. Why do we expect anything different this year?

Ricky Williams...now there is a player worth talking about. Yeah, he hosed the Dolphins more than once....but he is also a true warrior when he gets it all together. He is not the guy you want taking the load all year, but he sure makes a nice one-two punch when Ronnie is healthy.

I sure wish the season started tomorrow....

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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
FINesse wrote:
Alex13 wrote:
I hate to say it, But I think its only a matter of time before the lights go out again for him. As he had a concussion last year and a head injury his senior year at West Virginia.


I agree ... one more hit like that they will have to peel him off the furf.

Still , I hope he improves , I have a nice side bet that he completes at least 5 passes.


I mean, really....He has to improve...It's pretty hard to get any worse.

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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
FrustratedFinFan wrote:
Man...we gave up on Beck much quicker than this....and he actually completed some passes....and he had no blocking and no one to throw to.

Pat White is not likely to make the team. Turner isn't any more likely to make the team. This is just for media consumption and to give us something to talk about. Pat White was absolutely awful last year and gave us no indication at all that he was ready to turn the corner, unless it was to get on the road to the CFL or the Arena League. He was a great college athlete though. We already have three QB's. Pennington, the mentor....Henne, the starter....and Thigpen, who can run AND pass.

Turner never saw the field last year, despite being on one of the poorest receiving corps in football. Why do we expect anything different this year?

Ricky Williams...now there is a player worth talking about. Yeah, he hosed the Dolphins more than once....but he is also a true warrior when he gets it all together. He is not the guy you want taking the load all year, but he sure makes a nice one-two punch when Ronnie is healthy.

I sure wish the season started tomorrow....


Nonsense, White had 52 plays last season, his presence as the WC Qb led to 3 scores and a penalty.

That "completed passes" stuff is utter BS, he had 5 attempts, do you really think Henne is not capable of not completing 5 passes in a row?


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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
padre31 wrote:
Pat Package player requires that he can not only run the WC but also the wishbone.


:thinking:
He has to run the wishbone?

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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
The Pat Package was the PISTOL..... with him 3-5 yards behind center, and a Tailback 6-8 yards behind center and QB, then the option is to have an H Back, or a 6 man OL......... thats what was run against the Pats at the end of the 2nd quarter, and was working (then the evil genius adjusted at half, if we waited til the 2nd half, it woulda dominated).

The wishbone is a college option attack, with 2 tailbacks lined up behind the guards, and a QB under center. completely different offense, and one that WHITE NEVER RAN in WVU or Miami. wishbone is dependent upon play action to set up the pass, and misdirection for the run. As a QB, the position is rather confusing, for you may open left to fake a handoff to the LRB, continue the spin leftward til your a full 180 degrees, and offer the true handoff to the RHB (which could either beto the left in an Iso play, or handoff to the QBs right in a belly play off tackle), OR that hand off could be a fake too for a QB rollout/ designed scramble.... eitherway, the QB footwork for Wishbone has to be VERY fast, and precise, and can often be confusion with all the misdirections/fakes. Hence, it usually only works on the college level, because of interior penetration by the defense being faster and more aggressive in the pro's than in the college level where wishbone defense can be geared more towards containment in a wait and read approach. Look at Georgia Tech.... too much going on with their O, which works YES, but would never translate to the pro's

The Pistol is a shotgun formation that can be utilized for the run almost as effectively. Look at Nevada last year, which was VERY heavy on the run, but they had a QB that could scramble. In a passing alignment, think of Mizzou with Chase Daniels, here Chase was a smaller stouter Qb, that NEEDED the shotgun formation to see over the LOS. The Pistol CAN work in the pro's, the only reason why it isnt that common is..... because of the distance from the LOS. A Tailback is starting off 7 or 8 yards back. This could easily lead to negative yardage if there is interior penetration. Yet, the 7-8 yard cushion allows the Tailback to get a nice head of steam before hitting the LOS, plus, it opens up the option for a faster QB. Yet the Pistol formation becomes either an option running offense OR a passing offense dependent on the QB's ability. If he can't throw a pass to save his life (White in '09) then the option is not a threat cause the CB's can cheat the option and close down the corner. White needs to improve as a passer for this to ever work, or it will just be a gimmick


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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
Lots of examples of collegiate success using these nifty running QB formations....wildcat worked well too...until the novelty wore off. If the guy taking the snap can't pass, then the wildcat tends to lose its luster. Ronnie made the most out of many plays where he probably should have been tackled for no gain...but that was Ronnie making the yards. I submit to you that he might do just as well running from the I formation with a lead blocker all the time....perhaps better.

Pat White is a nifty runner, but we don't need a 4th QB to run a goofy formation that takes practice time from the basic set. Line up your best 11 and run it down their throat. Now that we have a real #1 wide receiver, we don't have to resort to trickery to convert first downs and to make big plays. The wildcat will likely become a smaller part of our offense. You paid Brandon Marshall a ton of dough. Throw him the ball...a lot. You have paid Ronnie and Ricky plenty....now have them carry the load. Barring injury (a big problem for Miami), there aren't too many running back tandems better. If some team is dumb enough to trade for Pat White, then by all means pull the trigger on that one. I would much rather have Thigpen in any formation that has the QB running the ball a lot. He is a PROVEN QB. Yes, he isn't a great one....yet.....but he is a wonderful luxury to have coming off the bench.

Pat White 2009 stats 0/5 passing, sacked once with a rating of 39.6
Rushing he was 21 carries for 81yds for a scintillating 3.9 yd average, no TD's, but a fumble.

Tyler Thigpen plays one game and goes 4/8 for 83 yds with a TD pass and 2 INT's and a rating of 87. I believe he engineered two scoring drives though. The INT's came in a desperate attempt to comeback in the 4th quarter against the Steelers who had just knocked out, quite literally, Pat White. I thought Thigpen was impressive considering how few snaps he was likely taking in practice and the situation he was thrown into.

Thigpen has experience and can run with the ball. He has 64 carries for 389 yards, a 6.1 yard average with 3 TD's. His career TD to INT ratio is 19 TD to 15 INT. He has had a fumble history, 6 drops of which the opponent recovered 2. He played most of his years for a bad KC Chiefs team.

Who do you want running your offense if Henne goes down....Pat White or Tyler Thigpen. I think the choice is crystal clear and the answer is Thigpen. Hopes, dreams and wishes don't mean much at the pro level. I wish Pat White a successful career in football, but I don't think it will happen in Miami. We gave up on Beck after 4 games. The guy completed 56% of his passes and even threw a TD. He had no blocking and was running for his life back there...and he can't run. His receiving corps stunk. There was a lot of Beck hating going on then. Yet we seem willing to give a lot of slack to a guy who has completed not a single pass and has very average rushing stats. He did that on a team with much improved blocking and more talent at receiver, but only just a smidge better (Hartline). Just what does White actually bring to the table? What brilliance has he really displayed? I think it disrupted the rhythm of our offense when we brought White in and sat Henne down.

Pat White was very likely a wasted 2nd round pick. Them's the breaks.

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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
If Chad Henne somehow gets knocked out of a game this season, which obviously I am hoping isnt the case, it will be a healthy Chad Pennington stepping into the game, not Thigpen or White. If Pennington is not healthy for some reason, then Thigpen. People seem to forget Chad Pennington is a fierce competitor and when healthy and with this improved team, I would still like our chances winning with Pennington.

However, here's to Henne's health and hoping he has a heck of a season for the fins!!


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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
IamPZ wrote:
I'm a huge Pat White fan here... but isn't kind of easy to be the most improved when you were so bad the year before?


It's gotta be a lot easier than being a huge Pat White fan.

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Post Re: Ricky Williams: QB Pat White most improved player
Rich wrote:
IamPZ wrote:
I'm a huge Pat White fan here... but isn't kind of easy to be the most improved when you were so bad the year before?


It's gotta be a lot easier than being a huge Pat White fan.


Lol!

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