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Do you agree with the anthem protests?
Yes 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
No 100%  100%  [ 13 ]
Total votes: 13
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:10 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
Last year the NFL barred the Dallas Cowboys from wearing a decal on their helmet honoring the five police officers killed in a domestic terror attack.
 
The NFL also banned the Tennessee Titan's linebacker, Avery Williamson, from honoring 9/11 victims by wearing cleats that read "9-11/01" and "Never Forget" on the 15th anniversary of the terror attack.


Now these are a huge issue. Did their PR release their reasoning behind it?
 
AQNOR wrote:
The NFL has banned players from wearing Beats headphones on the field (doing so violated the league's contract with Bose).


That's greedy corporate America for you.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:22 pm 
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zatrex99 wrote:
AQNOR wrote:
I wish many times he would not but to think he is going to solve all of the worlds problems by not twittering does not make sense to me.


It shows that he'll spout off the first inane comment that comes to his mind without stopping and thinking. It shows that his image is more important than actually being a leader. You have to divide the country to win elections, but then you're expected to bring the country back together once you take the oath.

To summarize: he's not smart enough to listen and think about advice given to him by smarter people, an all important prerequisite of being a descent leader. And he'll act irrationally when his fragile ego is threatened. That makes him dangerous to the USA.

Rich is also correct. North Korea could be the flash point for WW3. We always hope cooler heads prevail, but usually America has the leader with the cooler head. Not this time. Not trying to be an alarmist, but the elements for disaster are all here.


I don't want to bring the country back together if it means that I must capitulate my firmly held beliefs because someone disagrees with me. That is what is being faced in this country at times.

The players are being divisive. They are the ones who started the whole divisive acts not the President.

Because people disagree that makes them smarter. I don't buy that logic. If your proof of irrational acts is tweeting then you don't have anything to worry about imo.

The President did not create the problem of N. Korea. He is trying to deal with it. Take people at their word. They have been speaking this way and acting as a state sponsor of terror well before President Trump came on the scene. They need to be stopped and should not have nukes. I hope he deals with them decisively if it is needed.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:38 pm 
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Villanueva jersey sales have supposedly skyrocketed in the last day.

:yay:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:56 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Villanueva jersey sales have supposedly skyrocketed in the last day.

:yay:


Ofcourse it did. This country is filled with proud Americans and patriots. They just don't use social media nearly as much as the contrary. Silent majority.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:58 pm 
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zatrex99 wrote:
Rich is also correct. North Korea could be the flash point for WW3. We always hope cooler heads prevail, but usually America has the leader with the cooler head. Not this time. Not trying to be an alarmist, but the elements for disaster are all here.


I disagree, or at least don't see what you see. I don't believe NOKO has the influence. They're universally hated, and I highly doubt Trump's admin will let him piss off China by initiating any offensive on his terms.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:05 pm 
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Quote:
I don't want to bring the country back together if it means that I must capitulate my firmly held beliefs because someone disagrees with me
.

That's right...If they don't agree with your beliefs they are simply not American.

Now that's freedom.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Kev1321 wrote:
Quote:
I don't want to bring the country back together if it means that I must capitulate my firmly held beliefs because someone disagrees with me
.

That's right...If they don't agree with your beliefs they are simply not American.

Now that's freedom.


I'll let AQNOR defend himself, but that's not what he said at all.

Most logical minded people have a live and let live approach to most situations. But
if you don't drink the left's kool-aid, you're a Nazi, racist, or whatever epitaph is in vogue
at the time.
Yours was a colossally ignorant statement, but I've come to expect nothing less from you.


Last edited by madphan13 on Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:17 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:

Now these are a huge issue. Did their PR release their reasoning behind it?
 



This is what I could find.

Quote:
The NFL also banned the Tennessee Titan's linebacker, Avery Williamson, from honoring 9/11 victims by wearing cleats that read "9-11/01" and "Never Forget" on the 15th anniversary of the terror attack. ...

'I don't want to draw negative attention, so I'm just going to focus on playing the game,' Williamson told The Tennessean on Friday. 
'Once I heard from them, I didn't even try to argue anything. I just left it alone. I didn't want to press the issue.' 
But since news of Williamson's plan spread, two police unions in New York and New Jersey contacted the newspaper and said it was willing to  pay the linebacker's fine if he wears the shoes.

...

According to the NFL's fines and appeals handbook, Williamson would likely be fined at least $6,000.
The rulebook says players who wear 'personal messages' or commit 'other uniform violations' will be fined $6,076 by the league.

...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... shoes.html


Last edited by AQNOR on Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:45 pm 
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madphan13 wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
Quote:
I don't want to bring the country back together if it means that I must capitulate my firmly held beliefs because someone disagrees with me
.

That's right...If they don't agree with your beliefs they are simply not American.

Now that's freedom.


I'll let AQNOR defend himself, but that's not what he said at all.

Most logical minded people have a live and let live approach to most situations.
If you don't drink the left's kool-aid, then you're a Nazi, racist or whatever epitaph is in vogue
at the time.
Yours was a colossal ignorant statement, but I've come to expect nothing less from you.

You did see the Nazis in Charlottesville? Jews will not replace us?

Just curious because these people do exist. Don't blame the left.

Left and right has nothing to do with people that think everyone needs to live by their values. Believe it or not some people don't worship your god.

That's what democracy is..The USA is a melting pot.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Kev1321 wrote:
Quote:
I don't want to bring the country back together if it means that I must capitulate my firmly held beliefs because someone disagrees with me
.

That's right...If they don't agree with your beliefs they are simply not American.

Now that's freedom.


Since you are attributing what you said to me then, I say you are a liar and a fool. You are a poltroon of the highest order imo.

Please don't quote me and then say it says something I did not say.

If that is your opinion then own it as your own. It is not mine

Then in the same theme you seem to imply that somehow I am on the side of the nazi's. You are despicable.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:39 pm 
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AQNOR wrote:
Because people disagree that makes them smarter. I don't buy that logic. If your proof of irrational acts is tweeting then you don't have anything to worry about imo.


And I disagree. First off, when you're POTUS, you don't speak for yourself, you speak for all of the US. Secondly, you don't let yourself get baited by the media, which is what happened here. This story on the protests was pretty much dead. Something like 10 players protested on the first Sunday of the season. Now he jumped in and it's a story again, except now the media has framed the protest as one racial equality. If you (not you personally) object to the protests, you're racially biased. Not the leader I want in the White House and not a man up to the job of holding that important office.

Does this mean I'm racially biased because I almost never watch the pregame stuff, or anthem? For me, I just want to get to it and by that time, I've read enough from the past week to set my expectations. I don't want to listen to the talking heads put their uninformed narrative on the game. (the actual game)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:56 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
zatrex99 wrote:
Rich is also correct. North Korea could be the flash point for WW3. We always hope cooler heads prevail, but usually America has the leader with the cooler head. Not this time. Not trying to be an alarmist, but the elements for disaster are all here.


I disagree, or at least don't see what you see. I don't believe NOKO has the influence. They're universally hated, and I highly doubt Trump's admin will let him piss off China by initiating any offensive on his terms.


Did you see Jong un's responce to the UN Rocket Man speech? Trump has put him on center stage. Do you really want to bet that a deranged man in love of power will back down? To do so means losing face, something he'd rather go to war to avoid.

You're right that Trump's advisers will probably keep him from initiating first action. Jong un doesn't know that though, so yes it's likely he starts something. Then we have to respond. And China is an ally of North Korea. They will be forced to take Jong un's side. Russia has already declared they will consider coming to Jong un's aide.

This is why you ignore deranged egotistical idiots in the press, and quietly sanction them behind closed doors. You never give them the honor of recognition.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Kev1321 wrote:
madphan13 wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
Quote:
I don't want to bring the country back together if it means that I must capitulate my firmly held beliefs because someone disagrees with me
.

That's right...If they don't agree with your beliefs they are simply not American.

Now that's freedom.


I'll let AQNOR defend himself, but that's not what he said at all.

Most logical minded people have a live and let live approach to most situations.
If you don't drink the left's kool-aid, then you're a Nazi, racist or whatever epitaph is in vogue
at the time.
Yours was a colossal ignorant statement, but I've come to expect nothing less from you.

You did see the Nazis in Charlottesville? Jews will not replace us?

Just curious because these people do exist. Don't blame the left.

Left and right has nothing to do with people that think everyone needs to live by their values. Believe it or not some people don't worship your god.

That's what democracy is..The USA is a melting pot.




Stop with the stupid talking points. Nazis, the KKK, and all of your BS boogeymen are so little in numbers they have little to no effect on society today. They're a convenient shouting point to get clueless numbskulls in a lather to vote for progressives.

What I saw in Charlottesville was a legally permitted rally, invaded by fascist, "Antifa"
who cover their faces like the cowards they are, with tragic results.

Free speech is for all Americans whether you agree with them or not.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:37 pm 
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Want to see a real protest, watch what happens when more people than expected tap out of watching the NFL this weekend. Would not shock me in the least to see stadiums that are down 25% attendance and TV ratings showing a significant drop in game viewership.

They were trying to spin that last night's MNF rating was up from last week but they failed to mention that naturally happens when the Cowboys play, AND, the ratings dropped 13% from the last time the Cowboys played on MNF.

The owners and the players are going to focus in on the one color they really care about = green. Once you go after someone's wallet the whole narrative changes.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:56 pm 
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Right after I posted I saw a link on Twitter to a Wall Street Journal article saying Direct TV is going to refund some NFL Ticket Subscriptions to those upset about the protests.

The NFL is the golden goose of American sports right now but don't mess with it being people's escape. Look at what has happened to Hollywood with movie revenue and the hyper politicizing of films and award ceremonies. There are record lows in ratings for award ceremonies and revenue has been way down for movie ticket sales.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:12 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Look at what has happened to Hollywood with movie revenue and the hyper politicizing of films and award ceremonies. There are record lows in ratings for award ceremonies and revenue has been way down for movie ticket sales.


Revenue is down for movies because they make bad ones, and we get tired of all the franchise movies and remakes. If the movie doesn't excite me, I just wait for it to come out on Netflix or rent it on Amazon. I went to see IT when it first opened and will go to the theater to see The Last Jedi. Spiderman Homecoming I could wait for.

And after this last Dolphins' game, I'm not real excited about watching them play at 9:30 in the morning. None of that has to do with politics. They're an escape from reality I will continue to enjoy when they excite me to do so.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:58 am 
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zatrex99 wrote:
Revenue is down for movies because they make bad ones, and we get tired of all the franchise movies and remakes.


While this is also true, I recommend you take Jennifer Lawrence as an example. As soon as she got verbal about her politics all of her movies took a financial hit and performed below expectations. Even the final Hunger Games movie, which was expected to have the most revenue of all, underperformed its predecessor. I read an article about how that is unheard of for most successful franchises.

I'm not saying politics alone are to blame, but they play a role. It goes for any business but is especially prevalent in the entertainment world. You may not be motivated to protest, but I have been astonished by the social media responses of people I know saying they haven't watched a down of football this year. These are 36 year old college friends who never miss a game (and they are Pats fans up here).

The NFL best be careful if they care so much about revenue.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:43 am 
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madphan13 wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
madphan13 wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
.

That's right...If they don't agree with your beliefs they are simply not American.

Now that's freedom.


I'll let AQNOR defend himself, but that's not what he said at all.

Most logical minded people have a live and let live approach to most situations.
If you don't drink the left's kool-aid, then you're a Nazi, racist or whatever epitaph is in vogue
at the time.
Yours was a colossal ignorant statement, but I've come to expect nothing less from you.

You did see the Nazis in Charlottesville? Jews will not replace us?

Just curious because these people do exist. Don't blame the left.

Left and right has nothing to do with people that think everyone needs to live by their values. Believe it or not some people don't worship your god.

That's what democracy is..The USA is a melting pot.




Stop with the stupid talking points. Nazis, the KKK, and all of your BS boogeymen are so little in numbers they have little to no effect on society today. They're a convenient shouting point to get clueless numbskulls in a lather to vote for progressives.

What I saw in Charlottesville was a legally permitted rally, invaded by fascist, "Antifa"
who cover their faces like the cowards they are, with tragic results.

Free speech is for all Americans whether you agree with them or not.

But that don't include kneeling?
Because you don't agree?

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/09/pennsy ... -protests/
Fake news!..No such thing.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:50 am 
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jammer wrote:
zatrex99 wrote:
Revenue is down for movies because they make bad ones, and we get tired of all the franchise movies and remakes.


While this is also true, I recommend you take Jennifer Lawrence as an example. As soon as she got verbal about her politics all of her movies took a financial hit and performed below expectations. Even the final Hunger Games movie, which was expected to have the most revenue of all, underperformed its predecessor. I read an article about how that is unheard of for most successful franchises.

I'm not saying politics alone are to blame, but they play a role. It goes for any business but is especially prevalent in the entertainment world. You may not be motivated to protest, but I have been astonished by the social media responses of people I know saying they haven't watched a down of football this year. These are 36 year old college friends who never miss a game (and they are Pats fans up here).

The NFL best be careful if they care so much about revenue.


Your trying to make a mountain out of a molehill I suspect.

The first Spiderman series, X-men, Transformers all under performed compared to the first movie in the series. They call that franchise fatigue.

TOS Star Trek movies had an odd year problem. The even years did well, the odds did not yet. That can mostly be attributed to bad writing and directing.

Jennifer Lawerence's last move did perform badly. The reason:
Quote:
Its failures were a mixture of marketing strategy, bad timing, and just some inherent elements with the nature of the film. Here's what went wrong.
Plus it had the misfortune of going up against IT.

Hollywood has long been embroiled in politics, but that doesn't seem to matter. They make the escape from.

As for the NFL? We'll see. But fans should ask themselves one question. How many of them stand for the National Anthem when it plays on their TV? We should poll that on this board.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:30 am 
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Kev1321 wrote:
madphan13 wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
madphan13 wrote:

I'll let AQNOR defend himself, but that's not what he said at all.

Most logical minded people have a live and let live approach to most situations.
If you don't drink the left's kool-aid, then you're a Nazi, racist or whatever epitaph is in vogue
at the time.
Yours was a colossal ignorant statement, but I've come to expect nothing less from you.

You did see the Nazis in Charlottesville? Jews will not replace us?

Just curious because these people do exist. Don't blame the left.

Left and right has nothing to do with people that think everyone needs to live by their values. Believe it or not some people don't worship your god.

That's what democracy is..The USA is a melting pot.




Stop with the stupid talking points. Nazis, the KKK, and all of your BS boogeymen are so little in numbers they have little to no effect on society today. They're a convenient shouting point to get clueless numbskulls in a lather to vote for progressives.

What I saw in Charlottesville was a legally permitted rally, invaded by fascist, "Antifa"
who cover their faces like the cowards they are, with tragic results.

Free speech is for all Americans whether you agree with them or not.

But that don't include kneeling?
Because you don't agree?

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/09/pennsy ... -protests/
Fake news!..No such thing.


I can't believe you are this daft.
The Constitution provides for freedom of speech, along with our other rights, which prevents the government from infringing upon them.
There is no guarantee of freedom of speech at work. NFL players are at work on game day.
:hithead:

Have a nice life, I am done. :yay:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:45 am 
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Kev1321 wrote:
You did see the Nazis in Charlottesville? Jews will not replace us? Just curious because these people do exist. Don't blame the left.

Left and right has nothing to do with people that think everyone needs to live by their values. Believe it or not some people don't worship your god.

That's what democracy is..The USA is a melting pot.


Oh give me a break. This is the left's biggest issue right now is the dramatic exaggeration of Nazism and 'white supremacy'. A handful of wanna be Nazis show up to a protest, one idiot kills a woman and now people feed the delusion that these people are actually an issue, and not just some underground, isolated band of convicts operating in a few pockets across the country.

These men aren't stalking your neighborhoods and watching your black wife and kids sleep at night. Have you EVER encountered an actual neo Nazi in person? I'm 23, never have and likely never will. The hysteria is a joke.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:48 am 
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AQNOR wrote:
This is what I could find.


Quote:
The NFL also banned the Tennessee Titan's linebacker, Avery Williamson, from honoring 9/11 victims by wearing cleats that read "9-11/01" and "Never Forget" on the 15th anniversary of the terror attack. ...

'I don't want to draw negative attention, so I'm just going to focus on playing the game,' Williamson told The Tennessean on Friday. 
'Once I heard from them, I didn't even try to argue anything. I just left it alone. I didn't want to press the issue.' 
But since news of Williamson's plan spread, two police unions in New York and New Jersey contacted the newspaper and said it was willing to  pay the linebacker's fine if he wears the shoes.

According to the NFL's fines and appeals handbook, Williamson would likely be fined at least $6,000.

The rulebook says players who wear 'personal messages' or commit 'other uniform violations' will be fined $6,076 by the league.

According to the NFL's fines and appeals handbook, Williamson would likely be fined at least $6,000.
The rulebook says players who wear 'personal messages' or commit 'other uniform violations' will be fined $6,076 by the league.


A sticker honoring the 3,000 Americans who died on 9/11 is now considered a fineable 'personal message'? I don't even know what to say. I swear we are living in the twilight zone.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:03 pm 
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zatrex99 wrote:
Your trying to make a mountain out of a molehill I suspect.

The first Spiderman series, X-men, Transformers all under performed compared to the first movie in the series. They call that franchise fatigue.

TOS Star Trek movies had an odd year problem. The even years did well, the odds did not yet. That can mostly be attributed to bad writing and directing.

Jennifer Lawerence's last move did perform badly. The reason:
Quote:
Its failures were a mixture of marketing strategy, bad timing, and just some inherent elements with the nature of the film. Here's what went wrong.
Plus it had the misfortune of going up against IT.

Hollywood has long been embroiled in politics, but that doesn't seem to matter. They make the escape from.

As for the NFL? We'll see. But fans should ask themselves one question. How many of them stand for the National Anthem when it plays on their TV? We should poll that on this board.


Again, politics alone aren't to blame and that is not my suggestion. But there are some odd coincidences between Hollywood's increased political activity and revenues declining. You mentioned Lawrence's last film, well, the problem is her last several films have underperformed and they just so happen to come after she joined Lena Dunham by slamming people of conservative view points.

I'm not saying they are right or wrong, but they seem to forget that half their audience isn't liberal. If actors and films want to lecture they will pay the price. And her latest film was critical message on the Bible, Christianity and man's treatment of earth. People want escapism and entertainment, not "you need to reconsider everything you've held as truth." They also have to calm down on social media vulgarity and outright threats. Endorsing candidates has always been a Hollywood staple, but now it has gotten out of hand with their demand for uniform thinking.

The Kingsman movie that came out this weekend performed very well. The director said he purposely omitted Trump references because he recognized the film could suffer financially. Smart guy.

The NFL just needs to be cautious. They need to remember who buys tickets, jerseys, cable packages, etc. I have a feeling this could get worse before it gets better.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:26 pm 
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jammer wrote:
But there are some odd coincidences between Hollywood's increased political activity and revenues declining.


It's a bad idea to make predictions based on a few odd coincidences. Will Smith was the king of the July 4th weekend, until he had a movie flop on that date. No reflection on him, just a bad movie.

Quote:
You mentioned Lawrence's last film, well, the problem is her last several films have underperformed and they just so happen to come after she joined Lena Dunham by slamming people of conservative view points.

When she joins Mel Gibson, get back to me. You know, the Megan Fox disappearing act.

Quote:
I'm not saying they are right or wrong, but they seem to forget that half their audience isn't liberal. If actors and films want to lecture they will pay the price. And her latest film was critical message on the Bible, Christianity and man's treatment of earth.


Now you're confusing personal politics and movies that have controversial subjects.

Quote:
They also have to calm down on social media vulgarity and outright threats. Endorsing candidates has always been a Hollywood staple, but now it has gotten out of hand with their demand for uniform thinking.


Hollywood has long been involved in politics and it hurts them not one bit. Artists are in general liberals, so they espouse liberal views, in general. News at 11.

I as the average American do not pay attention to JL's politic views and I think most American's don't. Now if JL starts dating Chris Pratt, you got my attention for a second.

Put the King of Jordan on 60 Minutes explaining how we messed up by taking out Hussein and you have my attention for the hour. There is a man whose views on the politics on that side of the world I take seriously, or at least want to know so I can form my own opinion with research.

Quote:
The NFL just needs to be cautious. They need to remember who buys tickets, jerseys, cable packages, etc. I have a feeling this could get worse before it gets better.


I doubt it will be more than a statistical blip, but if I'm wrong kudos for you for being right. IMO they overreacted anyway. Ignore the tweets than vote Democrat in the next two elections.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:12 pm 
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zatrex99 wrote:
Now you're confusing personal politics and movies that have controversial subjects.


You actually believe these a separate things? Why do you think actors and actresses sign on for controversial subjects?

Its not just box office results. Why have all entertainment awards shows experienced record low ratings? Why is ESPN getting destroyed in their ratings in losing paying members left and right?

When celebrities inject too much of their politics into their work it often suffers financially. With social media it has only gotten worse.

You can probably find my posts in the politics section from 2016 that said do not underestimate the public's draw to celebrity and that may be why Trump would win. I'm saying the same thing here for the NFL - do not underestimate how angry people get when you dishonor a symbol of national pride. I don't care if you agree or disagree with the notion you are dishonoring it because that is not how a great deal of the public views it. Probably not a coincidence that the NFL just put out a job ad for a communications crisis manager. They know they are stepping into hot water on this one.

And where I think you are truly correct is that there are so many other options for people who want to tune out the noise. I saw someone on Twitter warn the NFL that in the 1950s and 1960s we had baseball, horse racing and boxing dominating the sports world. Things can change.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:56 pm 
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Exhibit B:

Tennessee TE Delanie Walker quoted from today - "Fans that don't want to come to the game? I mean, OK. Bye. Don't come to the game."

Nothing like telling the people who help fund your paycheck to spend the money elsewhere.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:01 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Exhibit B:

Tennessee TE Delanie Walker quoted from today - "Fans that don't want to come to the game? I mean, OK. Bye. Don't come to the game."

Nothing like telling the people who help fund your paycheck to spend the money elsewhere.


Yes, but you're not seeing many secondary stories about it now, are you? There are a few here and there, but nothing that suggests fans are going to revolt in masses.

None of the sponsors that contribute 1.2 billion dollars to the NFL have pulled out. we shall see what Sunday brings.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:35 pm 
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jammer wrote:
You actually believe these a separate things? Why do you think actors and actresses sign on for controversial subjects?


Sometimes yes, and sometimes no. You forget that the studios usually decide what movies to make. Controversial pieces are a double edged sword and they know that.

Quote:
Its not just box office results. Why have all entertainment awards shows experienced record low ratings? Why is ESPN getting destroyed in their ratings in losing paying members left and right?
The internet and smartphone. I don't have to watch 15 minutes to get the score or replay I want.

Quote:
When celebrities inject too much of their politics into their work it often suffers financially. With social media it has only gotten worse.


The Passion of Christ directed by Mel Gibson did just fine and endears on today, even survived his drunken ant-semitic diatribe afterwards.

Elizabeth Berkley did not survive Showgirls, a very controversial picture that bombed. Bad direction turned her into an unlikable character.

But neither of those should be used as examples to base an opinion on, both were unique situations.

I know you want this to be a big deal, and I worried at first it would be, but as you point out the public is fickle and in today's world has a very short attention span. It's on to the next thing to rant about.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:13 am 
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Kev1321 wrote:
[
You did see the Nazis in Charlottesville? Jews will not replace us?


Nice going, Dufus. I am going to have to move this to the political area now. We were talking about NFL protests during the national anthem. Just because people don't believe with the left doesn't make them Nazis. Every party has their fringe wackos. This thread has clearly gone offtopic. I'll leave a "shadow" in the main forum so that people will still join in.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:52 am 
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zatrex99 wrote:
I know you want this to be a big deal, and I worried at first it would be, but as you point out the public is fickle and in today's world has a very short attention span. It's on to the next thing to rant about.


No, I don't want this to be a big deal so let's get that straight. I want people to move on and let football be the Sunday escape it should be. But over the last 8+ years people seem to be digging in with their political divides and getting far more vocal/angry. And now I have family, friends, colleagues and acquaintances up here in good ol' liberal Massachusetts who are simply not watching anymore. I didn't expect that response so quickly.

This back and forth is a nice example of what is going on with player protests. The topic began with protesting and now we are discussing Hollywood and revenue. The players want to highlight what they perceive to be an ignored injustice, but no one is even discussing it. The focus is now on disrespecting the flag. They injected politics into the event rather than using their star power in other venues to get a message across. This has been handled poorly from the start.

I guess we'll find out on Monday when TV ratings are announced, and trust me I hope I'm wrong.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:55 am 
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zatrex99 wrote:
jammer wrote:
Exhibit B:

Tennessee TE Delanie Walker quoted from today - "Fans that don't want to come to the game? I mean, OK. Bye. Don't come to the game."

Nothing like telling the people who help fund your paycheck to spend the money elsewhere.


Yes, but you're not seeing many secondary stories about it now, are you? There are a few here and there, but nothing that suggests fans are going to revolt in masses.

None of the sponsors that contribute 1.2 billion dollars to the NFL have pulled out. we shall see what Sunday brings.


I don't believe it will be some instantaneous "holy crap" moment. But if players continue this approach and callously mock the people who pay to watch them then there will be consequences.

To your last point yes, there was an article (I will try to find it) that sponsors have reached out to NFL owners and warned them on the matter.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:25 am 
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madphan13 wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
madphan13 wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
You did see the Nazis in Charlottesville? Jews will not replace us?

Just curious because these people do exist. Don't blame the left.

Left and right has nothing to do with people that think everyone needs to live by their values. Believe it or not some people don't worship your god.

That's what democracy is..The USA is a melting pot.




Stop with the stupid talking points. Nazis, the KKK, and all of your BS boogeymen are so little in numbers they have little to no effect on society today. They're a convenient shouting point to get clueless numbskulls in a lather to vote for progressives.

What I saw in Charlottesville was a legally permitted rally, invaded by fascist, "Antifa"
who cover their faces like the cowards they are, with tragic results.

Free speech is for all Americans whether you agree with them or not.

But that don't include kneeling?
Because you don't agree?

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/09/pennsy ... -protests/
Fake news!..No such thing.


I can't believe you are this daft.
The Constitution provides for freedom of speech, along with our other rights, which prevents the government from infringing upon them.
There is no guarantee of freedom of speech at work. NFL players are at work on game day.
:hithead:

Have a nice life, I am done. :yay:


Daft....eww,I'm so insulted. Big guy.

Since you have such a penchant for being wrong about this(and in denial)..

Yes the players are at work..And when the owner of the team is on the field locking arms with them. I would say he not only agrees But I'm pretty sure that, that is a permission slip. Dahhh!
Oh and you may have missed the official release from the commissioner himself..Who also agrees with the players.

If I were you and had any balls in what you believe in so passionately..I would boycott the NFL..And MLB..Oh and the NBA.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:30 am 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Kev1321 wrote:
You did see the Nazis in Charlottesville? Jews will not replace us? Just curious because these people do exist. Don't blame the left.

Left and right has nothing to do with people that think everyone needs to live by their values. Believe it or not some people don't worship your god.

That's what democracy is..The USA is a melting pot.


Oh give me a break. This is the left's biggest issue right now is the dramatic exaggeration of Nazism and 'white supremacy'. A handful of wanna be Nazis show up to a protest, one idiot kills a woman and now people feed the delusion that these people are actually an issue, and not just some underground, isolated band of convicts operating in a few pockets across the country.

These men aren't stalking your neighborhoods and watching your black wife and kids sleep at night. Have you EVER encountered an actual neo Nazi in person? I'm 23, never have and likely never will. The hysteria is a joke.

Good, so as long as it's a handful(as you put it) you're good with it?
I'm pretty sure you won't find too many WW2 vets that would agree. And it was only one dead..No big deal.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:57 am 
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This has absolutely nothing to do with disrespecting the flag. I'm still surprised people can't discern that. It simply has to do with racial injustice. The NFL ratings are actually up. Military people even side with the players on this. The Ravens National Guard national anthem singer resigned because of fans reactions to the players kneeling. Dale Earnhardt Jr. even supports kneeling.

Everyone thinks this is about millionaires disrespecting the flag. However, those who can use a bit of critical thinking can see it is about something far more important. These guys are using their platform to bring light to a huge issue in America. Racism is being tolerated at the highest of levels in government. They have every right to do this. They are being more patriotic in kneeling than they are in blindly following the flag.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Cathal wrote:
This has absolutely nothing to do with disrespecting the flag. I'm still surprised people can't discern that. It simply has to do with racial injustice. The NFL ratings are actually up. Military people even side with the players on this. The Ravens National Guard national anthem singer resigned because of fans reactions to the players kneeling. Dale Earnhardt Jr. even supports kneeling.


For some of the protesters it is about disrespecting the flag. People can take offense to it if they want and interpret it how they want, same as the players can express themselves. Eric Reid tried to come out after the fact and claim that he and Kaepernick were merely doing a "half mast" style honoring to victims. Problem is Kaepernick is quoted as saying he will not support or respect the flag of a country that oppresses black people (hence taking a knee). So yeah, his original case was about disrespecting the flag.

I've read NFL Ratings are up and down. You choose who to believe. Some argue that the election season of last year knocked down ratings so we're seeing a simple rise back up to the norm. Monday night's game was up from last week, but down 13% from Dallas's previous MNF appearance. So where is the truth? I think this weekend will be a telling sign (hopefully fewer protests and less fan anger).

Military people are on both sides, there is no absolute stance one way or the other. I've seen Navy SEALs tweet their disgust with the protest and I've seen the now infamous photo of the WWII vet taking a knee.

No one is right or wrong here.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:49 pm 
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jammer wrote:
No, I don't want this to be a big deal so let's get that straight. I want people to move on and let football be the Sunday escape it should be.


Part of me still blames you for the Jets for not respecting the rivalry. I want this to die fast and am afraid you're being a trendsetter here. (I'm teasing you.)

But now this is in the political forum so the gloves can come off, though I don't see us as having a contentious debate but a reasonable argument. (unlike some of the other arguments going on in the thread.)

Quote:
But over the last 8+ years people seem to be digging in with their political divides and getting far more vocal/angry.


There is always been deep political divide in the country and in one respect that is good. It forces us to debate and reach a compromise instead making a sweeping change that initially looks right but proves devastating to the country. It also ensure that the minority voices are heard.

But you're right I believe. Nowadays people simply don't stop and listen to the opinions theirs oppose. They don't educate themselves on positions. It's like yes this it the first opinion I thought of and I'm right. I don't have to listen to yours. And that's just stupid.

You and I may be arguing, but I went and looked at things you brought up. I'd rather be wrong and take the right action, then the opposite. (I can see that you looked hard as well, your not simply espousing your opinion and I respect that.) That used to be something that was part of the American DNA, and what confused the crap out of our enemies. Churchill had a great quote on us that I think encapsulates us perfectly: You can count on the Americans to get it right, after they've tried three other things that were just wrong. I don't see that as an insult, but a compliment that makes me proud. We want to say we're great, and we can be, after we're honest with ourselves and say we need to do better.

Quote:
The players want to highlight what they perceive to be an ignored injustice, but no one is even discussing it. The focus is now on disrespecting the flag. They injected politics into the event rather than using their star power in other venues to get a message across. This has been handled poorly from the start.


This is what drives me crazy about this. It's fine (for the original issue) if you want to protest and this is the stage you want to use. You need the controversy to get the public's attention. But now that you have it, why are you not using it? Why are you not explaining the problem to us and giving us suggestions on how to fix it? Why didn't CKAP make a public announcement and say I'll retire from football if the president will create a special council to look at the issue, which I'll head. I'll organize my fellow players and we'll go into those communities and try to provide the leadership (which I think has to be Afro-American) they so desperately need. The players that believe in this issue could donate a game check to that council.

As for the fans protesting the protest I have one question: Do you stand at home while watching the game for the anthem? If you didn't, sit down and shut up. You're a hypocrite.

But no, you're right, we just had to turn it into a debate about disrespecting the Flag. Which really scares me. When did the flag or our leaders become symbols that demand our blind loyalty? They tried that in Germany and it didn't work out so well.

The flag started out with 13 stars and grew to 50 and that's symbolic of what it really stands for. It's a collection of principles and ideas that we hold dear, and those develop and adjust for the times because we as Americans can and must always do better. To be an American IMO means that yes you look at that flag with pride, but you recognize that it means you have to do better. You have not only the right but the duty to question the principles and ideas it stands for, and our leaders. You don't pledge allegiance to it blindly.

But while you have the right to protest that flag, you better not do it unless you have a good reason because it stands for all those things. It's not toilet paper. You don't kneel for the anthem because your girlfriend thought it was a good idea...sigh

Now I fear the conversation is going to turn into a racial issue. While it might seem alarmist (and it does to me) are we in danger of making our flag a symbol of oppression?

That's why I feel this is colossal exercise in stupidity. More than you wanted, right? I'll stop now. LOL


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:57 pm 
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jammer wrote:
I don't believe it will be some instantaneous "holy crap" moment. But if players continue this approach and callously mock the people who pay to watch them then there will be consequences.

To your last point yes, there was an article (I will try to find it) that sponsors have reached out to NFL owners and warned them on the matter.


Yes, and I may be wrong on this dying down. Trump tweeted about Jerry Jones and the Cowboys standing for the anthem.

Curry objected to the SI cover on the issue not including CKAP. This thing may have legs, unfornately.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Good points Zatrex, I'm too dizzy after reading it to quote! And, I don't consider this an argument, just going back and forth to bring up points.

I'm openly biased on the issue. I have very close family and friends in both law enforcement and the military. They are good people, respect the ideals of this country, and to my knowledge have not committed acts that would prompt the players to kneel. I've witnessed first hand law enforcement handle things the correct way, and, being victimized by those they have sworn to protect. Its a thankless job in a lot of ways which is why I like seeing people honor those who sacrifice by respecting the flag.

I'd like Kaepernick go out on patrol and see that its not such a simple issue. Watch officers go to a parent's home and have to inform them their child was killed in an accident. Or listen to officers describe how they had to hold a dying person's hand and tell them not to worry (even though the injury was fatal). I have some chilling stories on that. This doesn't mean police brutality is a myth, but the messaging and the approach really stink.

I hate when people protest the flag, but it doesn't give me the right to stop them just as they cannot tell me not to be upset over their actions. No win situation.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:54 pm 
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jammer wrote:
Good points Zatrex, I'm too dizzy after reading it to quote! And, I don't consider this an argument, just going back and forth to bring up points.


The conversation we're having is a good one, it's the one they need to be having at the national level, but aren't.

I don't see the actual issue as cops shooting innocent Afro-Americans, that's a byproduct of the problem. Violence begats violence on the front line. You're sending cops into zones of violence where they don't who the badguys are. They should not be villanized by it.

I see the issue as vicious cycle of oppression that needs to be broken. Afro-Americans in inner-cities are caught in depressing cycle that just keeps repeating itself. Single mothers raising kids in an environment where there is no hope of a good education or a future to get them out. Black males that either have to join a gang or die (which is why they fail at being the fathers their kids need.) Something like 80% of those families are single parent. That's devestating.

Then our justice system (our government) oppresses them with mandatory minimums (crack use is heavily punished vs other drugs.)

To solve the problem IMO, Afro-Americans need to go back into the community and change it at the grass roots to break the vicious circle. They need leaders those communties will respect and follow. And the goverment needs to get rid of opressive sentencing like Mandatory Minimums.

Sadly though, this issue is lost, I think, because the media and the president are at war with each and the NFL players aren't speaking up on it. It's a missed opportunity because you don't often get the national spotlight.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:39 am 
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“I ain’t got no quarrel with them Viet Cong” is one of the young Muhammad Ali’s signature lines. It helped to define him, his opposition to the war in Vietnam, his support for civil rights, and, really, the entire decade of the 1960s. It is arguably one of the most powerful sentences ever spoken by an athlete.


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