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Which is more critical to address with the 1st pick? Offense or defense?
Poll ended at Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:04 pm
Offense - Get Henne that top flight weapon he needs so he can develop into a franchise quarterback. 10%  10%  [ 4 ]
Defense - Fortify the defense for years to come. 90%  90%  [ 35 ]
Total votes: 39
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:04 pm 
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Adding a top notch WR can elevate Henne to the next level. But the Dolphins defense has a few glaring holes remaining. Which one do you guys think is more important?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:51 pm 
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Defense wins championships... Offense puts fans in the stands. I voted defense. ILB or FS please.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:55 pm 
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Ski_Money wrote:
Defense wins championships... Offense puts fans in the stands. I voted defense. ILB or FS please.


I agree but would add a DT to the list of possibilities. It all starts with being able to stop the run. But I think you have to go with the best player available where you pick.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:03 pm 
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bobby0112 wrote:
Ski_Money wrote:
Defense wins championships... Offense puts fans in the stands. I voted defense. ILB or FS please.


I agree but would add a DT to the list of possibilities. It all starts with being able to stop the run. But I think you have to go with the best player available where you pick.


What if the best player available is a running back, or an offensive tackle.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:33 pm 
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My thing about drafting a NT is that you are now giving Soliai the role of mentor...He's not a mentor yet...rather he still needs a mentor. That said I would acquire a veteran if you feel uncomfortable with Ferguson's possible retirement.
It's a sticky situation. Hopefully we will know more or less by Draft day whether Ferg is coming back or not.

I also am against taking a FS because I do believe Clemons will develope into that center fielder. I think you have him split time with Culver for right now, and your fine.

I think you have to go out and get that WR in FA, and concentrate the early part of your draft to LB's. I wouldn't be against taking 3 LB's with our first 4 picks.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:42 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
My thing about drafting a NT is that you are now giving Soliai the role of mentor...He's not a mentor yet...rather he still needs a mentor. That said I would acquire a veteran if you feel uncomfortable with Ferguson's possible retirement.
It's a sticky situation. Hopefully we will know more or less by Draft day whether Ferg is coming back or not.

I also am against taking a FS because I do believe Clemons will develope into that center fielder. I think you have him split time with Culver for right now, and your fine.

I think you have to go out and get that WR in FA, and concentrate the early part of your draft to LB's. I wouldn't be against taking 3 LB's with our first 4 picks.


Coaches do a good job of mentoring too man... but I agree that we need to go defense... the offense wasn't really all that bad this year... the defense gave up a lot of leads though.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:44 pm 
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IamPZ wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
My thing about drafting a NT is that you are now giving Soliai the role of mentor...He's not a mentor yet...rather he still needs a mentor. That said I would acquire a veteran if you feel uncomfortable with Ferguson's possible retirement.
It's a sticky situation. Hopefully we will know more or less by Draft day whether Ferg is coming back or not.

I also am against taking a FS because I do believe Clemons will develope into that center fielder. I think you have him split time with Culver for right now, and your fine.

I think you have to go out and get that WR in FA, and concentrate the early part of your draft to LB's. I wouldn't be against taking 3 LB's with our first 4 picks.


Coaches do a good job of mentoring too man... but I agree that we need to go defense... the offense wasn't really all that bad this year... the defense gave up a lot of leads though.


There is a difference between coaching and mentoring. There are certain things that a Coach cannot teach, where as a teammate can.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:59 pm 
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Correct me if I am wrong, but seems that a lot of the top notched receivers in the NFL were drafted after the first round.

We need to address the middle of our defense in the draft if we haven't addressed it in "free agency" ... if there is such a thing as free agency this year.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:18 pm 
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Iowafin wrote:
bobby0112 wrote:
Ski_Money wrote:
Defense wins championships... Offense puts fans in the stands. I voted defense. ILB or FS please.


I agree but would add a DT to the list of possibilities. It all starts with being able to stop the run. But I think you have to go with the best player available where you pick.


What if the best player available is a running back, or an offensive tackle.


You trade down and add picks or you add depth at those positions.


Vernon Carey struggled big time this year and the o-line got dominated several times in the last half of the year. So I don't see the o-line as a solid, consistent, deep, game dominating part of this team.

As far as RB goes, Ronnie Brown is coming off another season ending injury and Ricky has maybe 1 or 2 years left and has stated he wants to retire after the 2010 season. Cobbs is coming off a knee injury. So I don't see solid depth at this position either.

To be completely honest, there isn't a position on the team that has the talent and depth to completely ignore improving in the first round with the exception of LT, Kicker, and Punter. Even the QB positionable has question marks after Henne.

I still believe this team is very thin with quality players with 4 years of experience or less. The last decade of drafting and free agency blunders has left this team void of good young talent. The key with this coming draft is to pick 6 or 7 players that will make the 53 man roster or practice squad.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:37 pm 
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bobby0112 wrote:
Vernon Carey struggled big time this year and the o-line got dominated several times in the last half of the year. So I don't see the o-line as a solid, consistent, deep, game dominating part of this team.


Vernon Carey struggled big time this year?? I think you made a mistake...Vernon was number 72 on the right side who only gave up 4 sacks this season and was who we ran behind the most in the WildCat....most of those sacks coming the last 3 weeks when he was playing hurt.

No depth along the O-line?? We had the whole interior of the line get hurt and miss significant playing time, and we had our star RB get hurt, AND allowed teams to stack the box consistently, and still managed to get a top 5 run game in. Also, once Henne got comfortable in there, (last 9 games of the season), we only allowed 12 sacks; barely 1 per game.

No depth?? Not dominant? Please...This is the best unit on the team, (outside of RB), bar none, and is an elite line. Period.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:02 pm 
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Big Dave wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but seems that a lot of the top notched receivers in the NFL were drafted after the first round.


Our lists probably differ, but I would consider this as my top 10 list:
Andre Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Reggie Wayne
Calvin Johnson

Steve Smith
Randy Moss
Anquan Boldin
Wes Welker
Brandon Marshall
Vincent Jackson


5 first rounders, 3 second rounders, 1 third, 1 undrafted.
But the real top teir, (2 Johnson's, Fitz, Wayne), all first rounders. I don't think there are any Andre or Calvin Johnson's in this year's draft though. I think we need to go FA.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:37 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Period.


:hithead:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:34 pm 
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Get the big time FA WR (Brandon Marshall) and splurge almost the whole draft on defense.

Please...

See the guy below? He wants Marshall too!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:17 pm 
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Our offensive line is elite now??? ya right.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:38 am 
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Phins Rock wrote:
My thing about drafting a NT is that you are now giving Soliai the role of mentor...


Says who?

Who is mentoring B.J. Raji in Green Bay?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:07 am 
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Rich wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
My thing about drafting a NT is that you are now giving Soliai the role of mentor...


Says who?

Who is mentoring B.J. Raji in Green Bay?




ryan pickett???,but i guess he is not as its his 1st year as a true nt in a 3-4

he maybe a option next year in fa

franklin i can see being franchised ,wilfork,and hampton resigned

dosent leave much on the fa market ,alot of teams feel the need to have a vet nose tackle and
a young guy as back up,thats the way i feel e need to go rather than drafting another young guy and having soliai starting


the need at round 1 =for me any linebacker

mcClain ,hughes [if not a wr ,just cant see parcels doing that tho]


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:01 am 
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Phins Rock wrote:
bobby0112 wrote:
Vernon Carey struggled big time this year and the o-line got dominated several times in the last half of the year. So I don't see the o-line as a solid, consistent, deep, game dominating part of this team.


Vernon Carey struggled big time this year?? I think you made a mistake...Vernon was number 72 on the right side who only gave up 4 sacks this season and was who we ran behind the most in the WildCat....most of those sacks coming the last 3 weeks when he was playing hurt.

No depth?? Not dominant? Please...This is the best unit on the team, (outside of RB), bar none, and is an elite line. Period.


There is nothing dominate or elite about a 7-9 Team. The Wildcat was shut down this year and was a gadget offense used to compensate for lack of WR's and a passing game. I agree with you that the Offensive line and RB units are the strengths of the team, but when you look at them in depth, they aren't elite or particularly deep. And that is scary. Some people are of the opinion that you don't draft to need with the 1st pick you take the best available player... Are there other areas of the team that need to be addressed more than the o-line and RB position? Yes, but if you had to take the best player available and he happened to be a RB or OT it would improve a 7-9 team that didn't have the depth to play through injuries and a tough schedule this year.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:31 am 
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bobby0112 wrote:
There is nothing dominate or elite about a 7-9 Team. The Wildcat was shut down this year and was a gadget offense used to compensate for lack of WR's and a passing game. I agree with you that the Offensive line and RB units are the strengths of the team, but when you look at them in depth, they aren't elite or particularly deep. And that is scary. Some people are of the opinion that you don't draft to need with the 1st pick you take the best available player... Are there other areas of the team that need to be addressed more than the o-line and RB position? Yes, but if you had to take the best player available and he happened to be a RB or OT it would improve a 7-9 team that didn't have the depth to play through injuries and a tough schedule this year.


bobby, Vernon Carey had a Pro Bowl type season.

He was the 4th most effective run blocker in the NFL and only allowed 4 QB sacks. The reason you're complaining about him is because he whiffed on a couple of pass blocks late in the season and they probably stand out to you like a sore thumb. I bet you were not aware that late in the season he was playing through knee and back injuries. I'm also willing to bet you didn't notice the tremendous job of run blocking he did all year in sealing the edge when outside runs when to his side.

He actually allowed less sacks than the likes of D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Levi Jones, Marcus McNeill, Willie Colon and Jordan Gross.

He was a more effective runblocker than D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Flozell Adams, Max Starks, Marc Colombo and even our own Jake Long.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:38 am 
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Earlier in the year I thought we have to take a WR no matter what, now I'm thinking that if McClain is there we have to take him. Our LB's just didn't play well late in the year, not sure if it was talent, injuries or coaching.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:00 am 
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bobby0112 wrote:
There is nothing dominate or elite about a 7-9 Team. The Wildcat was shut down this year and was a gadget offense used to compensate for lack of WR's and a passing game. I agree with you that the Offensive line and RB units are the strengths of the team, but when you look at them in depth, they aren't elite or particularly deep. And that is scary. Some people are of the opinion that you don't draft to need with the 1st pick you take the best available player... Are there other areas of the team that need to be addressed more than the o-line and RB position? Yes, but if you had to take the best player available and he happened to be a RB or OT it would improve a 7-9 team that didn't have the depth to play through injuries and a tough schedule this year.


The WildCat got shut down because Ronnie Brown got hurt. Did you watch Dolphin football this season? We were SHREDDING people with the WildCat, including the best D in the NFL in NY. It stalled a little once people started blitzing the CB's, and once we started insterting Pat Timid...err...White in there, but the reason it failed towards the end of the season was because the guy running it wasn't there.

How can you say this O-line isn't deep?? We've got 4 former 1st round picks on the line who are living up to their billing, and a very promising Donald Thomas. What do you want another 3 first rounders to back those guys up?? This line suffered tons of injuries, and they were still playing extremely well, giving Ricky holes that lead to a top 5 rushing offense, and only allowing 1.2 sacks per game in the 2nd half of the season.

And I KNOW you didn't just say the RB position is not deep. It's the best duo in football, and has one of the best, most versatile 3rd down backs in football. Bobby....I don't know what you want, but clearly it's not realistic or possible.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:07 am 
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I'd probably go with DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart as the best duo in football... but we do have a good one.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:52 am 
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i too say go defense first


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:26 pm 
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Defense wins championships all right.....but even if we used our whole draft for it, we would still be deficient. This team has a lot of holes to plug and since we have a lot of old guys in key positions (Taylor, Porter, Ricky, Ferguson....), it won't be better next year.

How about thinking balance in the draft instead? Use the 1st rounder to address what has been a deficiency for YEARS......wide receiver.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:06 pm 
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Even though McClain is the guy I want, I say we go offense early because we've had so many solid defenses this decade only for the offense to bottom out. Yes defense is needed, but it's easier to consistently make the playoffs with a high powered offense. Then again the draft is quite a toss up when it comes to who will pan out.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:14 pm 
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What makes this draft really a downer for me is the fact that it is rather poor at WR, our biggest need. Last year, the draft was loaded at WR....so we take Pat White in the 2nd round......stuck on stupid.

Look at all the rookie WR's making a huge impact this year. It was a great draft. We got a good one in Hartline, but we could have probably filled both the #1 and #2 slots at WR......we took Pat White?????? Epic fail there......Epic.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:49 pm 
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I say go all defense for one reason. Most of our old guys are defense, most of our holes are defense, and this draft is the suck for WR (ok that's 3). Spend the $ on a WR and draft some serious D. Even when Ricky retires, we have other RBs that can handle their own (RB and Cobbs) and another draft to find one. We average 22 points a game on offense. We give up an avg of 24 points a game. One of those numbers is unacceptable. The other is managable.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:53 pm 
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Does defense win championships?
Well, of course. And so does offense. But the conventional wisdom that "defense wins championships" implies that defense is particularly more important than offense in the playoffs and the Super Bowl. This post will begin to look at whether defense really does matter more than offense in the NFL by comparing the right tails of the performance distributions of offenses and defenses--where playoff teams come from.

This time of year we are helped to the standard slew of articles declaring that defense is more important. Here is the latest example from ESPN.com. It's a good example because it suffers from some fatal flaws (itemized by Phil Birnbaum here). Typically, these articles look at past examples of NFL champions and comparing the offensive and defensive rankings of each team. I don't think this kind of analysis is necessarily very valid--


•They are anecdotal
•The sample size is usually very small, and results are probably not statistically significant--just due to chance

•If the sample size is large, it covers very distinct periods of NFL passing and blocking rules, confounding any results

•If the sample size is limited to one period of NFL rules, it can be dominated by one or two particular teams would skew the results (PIT in the 70s or NE currently, for example)
•Often, the analysis shows that defense is indeed important, but not more important than offense
•The rankings of each squad is almost always based on points scored or total yards, which are more often than not deceiving about the true performance of a squad

................

This means that great offenses tend to be "better" than great defenses, and terrible offenses tend to be "worse" than terrible defenses.

.....

So if a great offense usually trumps a great defense, where does the perception that "defense wins championships" come from? Truly dominant defenses such as the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Buccaneers, or 1985 Bears are relatively rare, and are therefore more memorable. Also, defense has traditionally been overlooked, at least by the mainstream hype-laden media. Even football insiders seem to focus on offense, demonstrated by who is inducted in the Hall of Fame, or who the MVPs tend to be. So the phrase "defense wins championships" may really mean "defense helps win championships more than most people think they do."

...........

So when looking at the NFL as a whole, offense and defense balances symmetrically. But when focusing on the right tails of performance, where playoff teams come from, we see that great offenses out-pace equally great defenses.


http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/01 ... ships.html

Food for thought maybe. I still voted for D. lol


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:55 pm 
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Ski_Money wrote:
I say go all defense for one reason. Most of our old guys are defense, most of our holes are defense, and this draft is the suck for WR (ok that's 3). Spend the $ on a WR and draft some serious D. Even when Ricky retires, we have other RBs that can handle their own (RB and Cobbs) and another draft to find one. We average 22 points a game on offense. We give up an avg of 24 points a game. One of those numbers is unacceptable. The other is managable.


Yeah, those points per game go up with Ronnie in the line up...and Cobbs. This offense can score. The defense can't keep other teams from scoring. Seems pretty obvious on where they should draft.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:58 pm 
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omg... do we agree Iowa?

I'm going to celebrate with a beer! Oh wait... on call for Haiti stuff nm. Virgin daq it is...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:23 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
IamPZ wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
My thing about drafting a NT is that you are now giving Soliai the role of mentor...He's not a mentor yet...rather he still needs a mentor. That said I would acquire a veteran if you feel uncomfortable with Ferguson's possible retirement.
It's a sticky situation. Hopefully we will know more or less by Draft day whether Ferg is coming back or not.

I also am against taking a FS because I do believe Clemons will develope into that center fielder. I think you have him split time with Culver for right now, and your fine.

I think you have to go out and get that WR in FA, and concentrate the early part of your draft to LB's. I wouldn't be against taking 3 LB's with our first 4 picks.


Coaches do a good job of mentoring too man... but I agree that we need to go defense... the offense wasn't really all that bad this year... the defense gave up a lot of leads though.


There is a difference between coaching and mentoring. There are certain things that a Coach cannot teach, where as a teammate can.


Agreed. Many coaches never played in the NFL. You can't glean gameday tips from a guy who was never there.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:11 pm 
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Iowafin wrote:
Ski_Money wrote:
I say go all defense for one reason. Most of our old guys are defense, most of our holes are defense, and this draft is the suck for WR (ok that's 3). Spend the $ on a WR and draft some serious D. Even when Ricky retires, we have other RBs that can handle their own (RB and Cobbs) and another draft to find one. We average 22 points a game on offense. We give up an avg of 24 points a game. One of those numbers is unacceptable. The other is managable.


Yeah, those points per game go up with Ronnie in the line up...and Cobbs. This offense can score. The defense can't keep other teams from scoring. Seems pretty obvious on where they should draft.


I believe we were 5-2 when we had Henne, Brown, and Williams all healthy. Make the defense stronger.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:22 am 
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Could have been 7-0 with a better D. Hell, better D would have won the first 3 blowouts.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:37 pm 
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bobby0112 wrote:
Phins Rock wrote:
bobby0112 wrote:
Vernon Carey struggled big time this year and the o-line got dominated several times in the last half of the year. So I don't see the o-line as a solid, consistent, deep, game dominating part of this team.


Vernon Carey struggled big time this year?? I think you made a mistake...Vernon was number 72 on the right side who only gave up 4 sacks this season and was who we ran behind the most in the WildCat....most of those sacks coming the last 3 weeks when he was playing hurt.

No depth?? Not dominant? Please...This is the best unit on the team, (outside of RB), bar none, and is an elite line. Period.


There is nothing dominate or elite about a 7-9 Team. The Wildcat was shut down this year and was a gadget offense used to compensate for lack of WR's and a passing game. I agree with you that the Offensive line and RB units are the strengths of the team, but when you look at them in depth, they aren't elite or particularly deep. And that is scary. Some people are of the opinion that you don't draft to need with the 1st pick you take the best available player... Are there other areas of the team that need to be addressed more than the o-line and RB position? Yes, but if you had to take the best player available and he happened to be a RB or OT it would improve a 7-9 team that didn't have the depth to play through injuries and a tough schedule this year.


Booyah!

I don't see either RB or OL as dominant or deep, and even if our RB corps could be seen as dominant (which I think an argument could be made), it appears as if it will disappear in the next year or 2. RB is coming another yet another injury. RW only has so much left. Cobbs is a backup. Hilliaird is a backup's backup. When all 4 are healthy we're good. But RB hasn't shown that he can remain healthy, RW is ancient in RB years, Cobbs is a utility guy who can do some nice things, especially when there are other RBs on the field, but is not the full package, Hilliard runs hard but hasn't shown that he is an every down back.

We will need to address RB sooner than later, and if our pick comes along and there is a RB on the board who is BAA according to our staff, you take him.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:39 pm 
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If you don't see the O-Line as dominant and deep, then you're kidding yourself.

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I posted for offense because I think Miami can address both in this draft. I don't think it's any secret that I think Dez Bryant can be a special WR. You have a young QB in Chad Henne and he has a lot of upside and shows a lot of promise. You have a solid OL that produced the 4rh ranked run offense in the NFL, nice RB's in Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Lex Hillard and Cory Sheets, but your WR's are solid, nothing more, nothing less.

That being said, the Dolphins already have a collection of #2 & 3's, they need that guy that be a Brandon Marshall type player, a guy that can go in traffic against a smaller DB and make a catch, get tye YAC and be a red zone threat. The Dolphins only need to look at drafting one, special WR in this draft.

The rest of this draft can be spent on rebuilding the LB group and adding a NT in the draft and perhaps adding a playmaking TE.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:49 pm 
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Phins Rock wrote:
Big Dave wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but seems that a lot of the top notched receivers in the NFL were drafted after the first round.


Our lists probably differ, but I would consider this as my top 10 list:
Andre Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Reggie Wayne
Calvin Johnson

Steve Smith
Randy Moss
Anquan Boldin
Wes Welker
Brandon Marshall
Vincent Jackson


Calvin Johnson can't hold Marques Coltons water. What's really damning about drafting a 1st rd WR isn't the guys who have been good but rather the huge number of busts in rd 1.

As for the actual question: I'd like to see us trade back and go after Terrance Cody. We must get a NT this offseason.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:18 pm 
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I voted Defense. I'd like to see us go nose tackle in the first.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:43 pm 
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Calvin Johnson can't hold Marques Colston water? Please. The kid has put up numbers for the Detroit Lions while Colston plays with a great offensive team and QB in New Orleans.

Colston is a tremendous pick for the Saints in the 7th round, but trying to belittle Calvin Johnson to make a point is weak.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:00 pm 
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phinsfansc wrote:
Calvin Johnson can't hold Marques Colston water? Please. The kid has put up numbers for the Detroit Lions while Colston plays with a great offensive team and QB in New Orleans.

Colston is a tremendous pick for the Saints in the 7th round, but trying to belittle Calvin Johnson to make a point is weak.

Tell em, Tony!!

Calvin put up 1300 yards in his second season....playing for Detroit...Had he not been hobbled by injuries this season....Well, let's just say I can't wait to see what him and Stafford can do.

We're looking at a guy who I think will go down as a top 5 WR of all time. I think he's that talented.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:25 pm 
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Gentlax13 wrote:
As for the actual question: I'd like to see us trade back and go after Terrance Cody. We must get a NT this offseason.

i'm in absolute agreement. if rolondo mcclain isn't available i say we trade down and pick up terrance cody and address a serious position of need, because even if ferg does come back, he is on the wrong side of 35 and i just dont think solaiai is cut out to be a NT on a good 34 D. in a dream scenario, we pick up vince wilfork in free agency and mcclain falls to us. but that is just a far fetched fantasy as our front office is not to fond of actually "payin' da man" (unless you count rejects like earnest wilford and gibril wilson) but a fella can dream right??

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