At the time he was subdued, restrained then the cops should have stopped.

Their job is to detain an individual/suspect, not to play judge and jury.

Also, the largest cop on the scene was 140 lbs?

Where are you getting this from?

Disable him? You're serious? The man was beaten nearly unconscious by a myraiad of cops and batons. No resistance. Every movement he made in the video was a plea to get them to STOP beating him, yet they continued. Even if he was high on PCP, the video clearly shows a man who was incapacitated and begging the police to stop, yet they continued and continued and continued. With their feet, their hands, their batons.

No man deserves that.

And people wonder why some hate cops.

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/ ... 2045032838

Just ignore Geraldo Rivera. He's a dirt bag.

Clearly you and I didn't see the same video.

Rich, I've been reading this forum for quites some time now and only recently began commenting again. It is exactly this snooty, sarcastic attitude that prompted me to call you Dr. Arrogance.
What is arogance? A lack of humility. I've never seen you concede a point, admit a mistake or show humility in any thread. I suppose it may have happened somewhere, but I haven't seen it.





This is the most laughable thing I've seen you write. Why, in the very same thread you say to another commenter "Should I ask if you have limited brain capacity because you are picking and choosing things I said to misinterpret what I am saying and take the conversation in a different direction than what I originally said? Or should I ask if you are simply trying to be disingenuous?"

You are concerned that the thread may take an unpleasant tone? Really? Is that supposed to be comic relief? Or are you simply trying to be disingenous?





Here's that concern for the tone of the thread shining through again. What you overlooked in my attempt at being conciliatory (read the rest of the paragraph that you quoted, please) was that you are not the only one with personal experiences with cops. I had a pretty powerful one myself which left me with a very different outlook, but I made a point to recognize that your experiences left you with what is for you a justified, if somewhat jaded, opinion.

You keep referencing this horrible personal attack I waged against you. I called you arrogant. Sheesh. Get over it already, or maybe don't get over it... if you think I'm wrong, maybe you need to be a little more self-aware.

[/quote]

You missed again. I didn't dismiss your point. I actually conceded that your position was valid.
Did you read that part? "Should I question your reading capability because you don't seem to be grasping what I am saying?"

You are mortally offended at my calling you arrogant, yet it's okay for you to question other's intelligence or sincerity and you have free reign to be as sarcastic or belittling as you wish. That's fine, just don't get all uppity if someone calls you on it from time to time.

Man.. you guys must be bored. Lots of raging testosterone in this thread.

My thoughts are this.. Ronnie Brown has been a class act since coming to Miami. Super nice guy. Does things in the community. Never been arrested. There is no blood alcohol content and there has to be a reason that this is being considered dropped to a minor Traffic Violation. He gets the benefit of the doubt in my mind.. If it turns out to be a DUI.. Then that sucks.. But, from the way it sounds.. He is only guilty of not using his blinker.

Look, I apologize if my comments offended anyone, specially if you suffered a loss due to a drunk driver... I work with recovering drunks and drug addicts on a regular basis and have seen more death in the last few years than I ever would have imagined.

My comments were more towards all the reports of athletes in general expected to live at some higher level because they are in the public eye.. This one just got me going I guess.

Lets face reality, if not for the athletic ability the chances they even make it to a state U is slim to none.
Once they actually get there, if for some reason they decide to drop out in there junior year to peruse a NFL career rather than finish school and get a degree it is accepted and they are welcomed into the NFL with a big $ contract...

Now, a kid from the ghetto of America, probably coasted through high school & college because of physical ability is rewarded for dropping out of college with a big $ contract and we are in shock when they break the law???

Am I making any sense yet???

Does Ronnie fit this mold? Not really, he does appear to be a bit more intelligent than others judging from press conferences. But in reality do you really know what any of these guys are like??

The difference between a smart criminal and a dumb one is the dumb one gets caught...

But they are both still criminals correct? Maybe Ronnie has been swerving around Miami for years and the cops haven't caught him....

Now to quote Rodney.... Cant we all just get along.....

I will accept your apology and agree that athletes sometimes, if not most times, are placed on a pedestal. But so are politicians and any profession in the public eye. People of all sorts do bad things, but to assume that everyone is a criminal but just haven't been caught seems ridiculous.
Whether you're from the ghetto or a high class family, you're intelligent or dumb, it's always disappointing when someone does something as irresponsible as drunk driving.

First of all you can ask me whatever you want to.

My question for you is did you ever stop to think there might be a very logical explanation to why you see cops turn their lights on to get through an intersection and then turn them off? They could be headed to a crime in progress or any sort of alarm (bank, holdup, residential) and do not want the criminals to know they are on their way. Do you want them to wait at the light while the alarm at your house is going off and your property is being loaded into someone's car? Maybe they are just looking for a suspect involved in a crime and need to get to the area quickly but without scaring them off. You would rather think it is unnecessary because it fits your opinion of cops.

And yes I guess I am that gullible to think that a majority of cops are honest and do a good job.

Majority, sure. But just a handful make you question that majority, does it not? See; Rick Tasler

His actions in Madrid, Iowa made the whole county of Boone seem as if it's incompetent.

I think the Devil did this!!!!11



...Just throwing in the religious part of this hole of a thread D:

This topic is touchy to a lot of folks....let's try and keep this on track guys.

this is dissapointing to hear, but we all make mistakes. If it was an over zealous cop he should lose his job. DUI's are tough these days, in any given city there could be hundreds of DUI's written every day, it doesn't take much to get one.

Dont you know all Dolphin players fit this category ...now if this was Lawrence Maroney we could all agree to throw away the key.

Honestly , the talk here is good .... the personal attacks are not.

I didn't mean everyone's a criminal... I was just implying that just because we don't hear about it or read about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen... Referring to Ronnies clean history...

And yes, drunk driving is not something anyone should do. Specially when that someone could easily pay someone to drive them in a limo... My only thought would be this is either something that is done regularly...

Or its blown way out of proportion.

PS: In Ronnies defense, we do not use turn signals in south Florida....

That is a weak attempt by you to absolve yourself of responsiblity for an unprovoked personal attack.



Are you actually reading the thread? My questions aimed at Dolfanrar were rhetorical in response to him also taking a personal shot at me for calling me narrow-minded.

All it takes is for one person to cast a pebble into the lake to cause the water to ripple. You cast that pebble and in the process began dragging the thread down. You want me to be more self-aware, perhaps you should worry about whether you need to be more self-aware first.

This thread has officially become a waste of time, back and forth bitchfest and it started thanks to you.

Congratulations.

Funny, they do not seem to be in a hurry after they get past the intersection. At least if they were hauling butt I could understand.



Typical word-twisting on your part. My points have never referred to a majority of cops.

You are not making much sense yet to me. Who are these people you are referring to that are shocked when athletes in the situation that you describe break the law?

You still have not made sense out of the drunk driving and other law breaking activites that you advocate for the Dolphin players to engage in.

Lets stop with the name calling, please.

Thread will be locked if the name calling continues.

Mods

Seriously? I suppose on the odd occasion it's possible, but I have seen it with impunity. I have, literally, seen cops rush through a red light with lights glaring only to turn them off so they can get to Casola's without waiting any longer. And no, Casola's was not being robbed. They are manned by off duty cops whenever they are open.

Those who live in Miami should know exactly what I'm talking about.

Bingo.

But hey, maybe it was the same one or few out of 650,000 cops you saw and I saw several times.

And what about that guy that got shot on his doorstep in New York? The one that had like 20 bullet holes going up his feet? I suppose he was still a danger to the cops even though he was already dead. You know those zombies, they can be tough to handle. I bet it was the same one or few out of 650,000 cops that you and I saw turning on their lights to skip a red light.

They really are ruining it for the other 649,990 cops in this country who have never abused their position of power or treated average citizens like peasants.

By the way, just for educational purposes:



http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Police_b ... ted_States

But I'm sure all these incidents were perpetrated by only one or a few out of the 650,000 cops in this country.

This is why a good portion of the citizenry in the United States has a less than stellar view and a general distrust of law enforcement officers in this country. Enough people have personal experiences with jerk cops or see stories of police corruption documented in the news and know there are more that never get reported because of the fraternity nature of the profession.

So ignore it.....

Some parts of this thread have gotten out of control.

We know there are corrupt police on the street. I would like to post his video clip that I saw on the news this morning as a tribute to the honest policemen out there who put our lives ahead of their own.


Click here to learn how to add YouTube Videos to your phpBB forum


For the corrupt ones out there .... find another job.

.

lol, you are the one who asked the question.

Not sure if I am ready to ignore statements that advocate Dolphin players to drink and drive and break other laws. But thanks for your advice.

I don't believe anyone in this thread is disparaging MOST police officers or a MAJORITY of police officers like some seem to believe. What some people are expressing is the fact that there are MANY police officers who abuse their authority in some way. Some of these things are small like the stories of cops turning their lights on at a red light and then turning them off on the other side just to get past traffic. Or cops who talk to citizens as if they are dogs. There are other bigger stories like the numerous stories of police brutality, over-aggressive behavior and even criminal cops. All you need is 5% or 10% of cops to do this for a considerable segment of the population to begin distrusting cops. And I am being extremely conservative by using 5% or 10%, at least here in Miami it is probably much more. There are definitely good cops who risk their lives to protect and serve, who are courteous to the citizenry, even when they are pulling you over for speeding etc.

And you are 100% right Dave, the corrupt cops need to find another job. Or their bosses need to force them out of a job, but you and I both know that some cops are connected to the upper echelons of certain police fraternities and they get protected. They are basically the equivalent of "made guys" in mafia terms.

Some may view that as unfair on the part of the citizenry to distrust cops, but life isn't fair. It is real and so is distrust towards cops from a sizeable segment of the U.S. population. And before anyone responds to this comment, think twice about stereotyping those who have that distrust for cops.

All of that is fair. Dave, you are right, portions of this thread have gotten out of control, and for how I contributed to that I apologize. I honestly didn't mean to cause such a stir, but after one ill-advised comment of mine, things escalated (as they often do.) Rich, you did not deserve the slam I gave you, and I apologize to you as well. The irony is that on all the significant points I think we agree. Many people have legitimate reason for distrusting police across America. I see the abuse of power myself in little ways and occassionally in big ways also. Like you said, for the bad ones, get a new job (not that they will, unfortunately.)

My story is that an 11-year-old neighbor of mine was abducted from her home, assaulted, and murdered this past Christmas. On Christmas day, when the girl was still missing, nearly every available police officer in the area... literally thousands... worked non-stop for days, many without any breaks, and most on a volunteer basis. They searched the surrounding area by helicopter and on foot until the girl's remains were found in a field. The stories that came out of that tragedy of how the police responded and how they treated the members of the community in the process of the search were inspiring. Though we still see the things that bother us, the way they handled that time earned a lot of respect and benefit of the doubt from community as a whole.

I don't presume to know what anyone else will think of that story, but it is true and it has helped to form my attitude towards the police. Incidentally, the police captured the scumbag that did the crime and he's facing a death sentence. Now I hope we can move on (from this thread, I mean.)

I too apologize for contributing to the fact this thread has gotten out of control. I also am sorry if I offended anyone. I have been a member of Phinfever for many years and I don't usually get this engrossed on a topic. I just started my 25th year as a fulltime police officer and thought I had learned to not take things like this personally. I usually try to stay away from the whole cop thing because I am here to talk and read about the Dolphins and I like to forget about work at times. I will honestly say that Rich's account of being arrested (second time he has written about it that I can remember) makes me very embarassed about the profession. I don't question his account of events. I am sure it happened the way he explained it. Those officers are or were a disgrace and are among those who are in it for the wrong reasons.

This is a great site and I hope nothing in this thread (especially that which has been written by me) makes anyone think otherwise.

Former LA police chief (Gates?) in an interview.

King was never "subdued". He was handcuffed but continued to get up and charge the officers on the scene.

Emotion taken out of this what you're watching are the final few minutes of this event. Go dig out the whole video where King is charging the officers.

Ok this thread has gone from Ronnie to the cops.....

LOCKED

Thanks, Henry.

I understand this is the offseason and police behavior is a touchy offtopic subject (as is religion, politics, etc), but fighting and name-calling only hurts the site. Who would want to join up after reading this thread?

I want to encourage you to have fun here, bond with other members, and realize that having the last word isn't as important as you think it is. I usually state my point, come back with another comment, and just let it go after that on the Dolphins forums. If I do not come back with the last word I do not think anyone thinks lessor of me for it. For example, all of the arguing in this thread has not solved a thing. People still feel the same way about this subject.

So, with that, enjoy the rest of our Dolphin Talk!

Dave
phinfever owner