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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:15 pm 
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Wallace was scheduled to report to the Steelers this weekend and sign his tenure. Checked, but couldn't find any news on whether that happened.

This move really puzzles me unless we make another big trade shortly, prefereably for a WR, there is no value this year. Would Vontae's stock go down if we held onto him this season and traded him at the end of the year........Maybe......Maybe Not. The benefit of not trading him so ealry is we really could have used his services this year.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:29 pm 
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Coaches make mistakes. Not saying that it's permanently planted in stone that this is one yet (though signs point in that direction). But it's hard to invoke the argument that we just go off of what they say. I've never chosen to analyze my football team that way .... and I was a supporter of bringing Philbin here.

I hears ya Rock. I am a supporter and still am of Philbin. Let's hope what he is doing IS best for the team.

Of course, it is only preseason, but going back to receiver...Brandon Marshall is tearing it up in Chicago thus far. I was not a fan of them giving him away, but again, I will hold my opinion until we see how the rest of this plays out, but what we have at receiver and now at corner, whether it is through a trade to get another receiver or live with what we got and the same at corner, I can only "hope" this ends up being a positive for the Dolphins.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:41 pm 
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From the Sun-Sentinel

"What in the world are we doing? No way are we better without Vontae. We're supposed to be getting better, and with every decision we keep getting worse," a Dolphins veteran said, requesting anonymity. "We need to see something positive happen."


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:44 pm 
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That's the second veteran to question a move publicly, although Dansby didn't hide behind anonymity.

Both moves, in my opinion, start with Philbin searching for choir boys.

How long did it take Cam Cameron to lose the veteran leadership on this team? Just asking...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Yep Rich, he seems to be adopting the Merchant Marines background of his along with the choir boy approach on this team.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:00 pm 
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no one is going to give up a 1st round pick for an inconsistent corner with work ethic and maturity issues. This isn't Madden. I can't believe we got what we did honestly. Better players than Davis have been traded for less.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:16 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
no one is going to give up a 1st round pick for an inconsistent corner with work ethic and maturity issues. This isn't Madden. I can't believe we got what we did honestly. Better players than Davis have been traded for less.

Generally its because of contract issues, but you will be hard pressed to find a young DB coming into his 4th Yr being traded.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:25 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
no one is going to give up a 1st round pick for an inconsistent corner with work ethic and maturity issues. This isn't Madden. I can't believe we got what we did honestly. Better players than Davis have been traded for less.

Generally its because of contract issues, but you will be hard pressed to find a young DB coming into his 4th Yr being traded.



I actually believe it's about money too. Looking forward they weren't going to extend him.
I've thinking that for awhile now, that he wasn't one of the core players they were going to pay to keep. Keep Long, Wake, Soliai and Pouncey. Good core players you build around.
And personally, I'm not real big on breaking the bank on corners. they're only as good as the pass rush anyway. just ask the Giants.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:27 pm 
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2013!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:30 pm 
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Bill Polian after seeing VD in camp:

Quote:
As for Davis, few weeks ago, long-time NFL General Manager Bill Polian was at Dolphins camp and singled out Davis' talent. "Watching him in practice, he jumps at you with his feet and hip movment — he should be a guy who's special,'' Polian said on Sirius radio.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:46 pm 
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look on the bright side, at least Philbin's not Tony Sparano. I think the Jets just kicked another field goal. lol


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Maybe this is simplifying the matter too much, but...

Marshall cost two 2nd round picks and was traded for two 3rd rounders.

Davis cost a 1st round pick and was traded for a 2nd and a conditional 6th.

Those aren't bad exchanges if the player the Dolphins are trading are on the downside of their career AND the picks received in return are used wisely.

So far we are on the losing end of the Marshall trade, and I don't have much hope at this point that the Davis trade will work out any different.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:28 pm 
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Mindtornado wrote:
Maybe this is simplifying the matter too much, but...

Marshall cost two 2nd round picks and was traded for two 3rd rounders.

Davis cost a 1st round pick and was traded for a 2nd and a conditional 6th.

Those aren't bad exchanges if the player the Dolphins are trading are on the downside of their career AND the picks received in return are used wisely.

So far we are on the losing end of the Marshall trade, and I don't have much hope at this point that the Davis trade will work out any different.


How is Vontae Davis at the downside of his career heading into his 4th season in the pros?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:33 pm 
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this is what i was talking about earlier Rock, when you suggested I never heard of Marshall before we got him.

Quote:
According to Pro Football Focus, Vontae Davis' ranking among all NFL cornerbacks
last year was 43rd. Richard Marshall, the veteran brought in on a three-year deal that now essentially replaces Vontae, was ranked 51st among 109 qualifying corners in 2011.


virtually identical ranking, which lends creedance to my statement that Davis was overrated and Marshall was underrated. I mean losing the 43rd best corner should not have everyone up in arms.
it's just the name and where he was drafted that people are hung up on.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:34 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
Mindtornado wrote:
Maybe this is simplifying the matter too much, but...

Marshall cost two 2nd round picks and was traded for two 3rd rounders.

Davis cost a 1st round pick and was traded for a 2nd and a conditional 6th.

Those aren't bad exchanges if the player the Dolphins are trading are on the downside of their career AND the picks received in return are used wisely.

So far we are on the losing end of the Marshall trade, and I don't have much hope at this point that the Davis trade will work out any different.


How is Vontae Davis at the downside of his career heading into his 4th season in the pros?


He isn't. That's why I said "if". I think both Marshall and Davis will have much better years than they did in 2011.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:35 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
virtually identical ranking, which lends creedance to my statement that Davis was overrated and Marshall was underrated. I mean losing the 43rd best corner should not have everyone up in arms.
it's just the name and where he was drafted that people are hung up on.

I'm not a one yr type person. Players can have bad yrs & still be able to return to top status.

I wanted Nicks in '09 & this trade proves it would have been the correct choice.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:37 pm 
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Dphins4me wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
virtually identical ranking, which lends creedance to my statement that Davis was overrated and Marshall was underrated. I mean losing the 43rd best corner should not have everyone up in arms.
it's just the name and where he was drafted that people are hung up on.

I'm not a one yr type person. Players can have bad yrs & still be able to return to top status.

I wanted Nicks in '09 & this trade proves it would have been the correct choice.



absolutely I wanted Nicks too. But really, was Davis ever a top 10 corner in this league?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:38 pm 
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Mindtornado wrote:

He isn't. That's why I said "if". I think both Marshall and Davis will have much better years than they did in 2011.


It will be brutal if that happens, in light of a potentially ugly season for the Dolphins.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:43 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
absolutely I wanted Nicks too. But really, was Davis ever a top 10 corner in this league?


Why does VD absolutely have to be in the Top 10 after 3 seasons in the NFL?

There are 64 starting CB's in this league. While he may not be in the upper echelon of the Top 10, he's definitely in the conversation for Top 25.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:46 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
absolutely I wanted Nicks too. But really, was Davis ever a top 10 corner in this league?


Why does VD absolutely have to be in the Top 10 after 3 seasons in the NFL?

There are 64 starting CB's in this league. While he may not be in the upper echelon of the Top 10, he's definitely in the conversation for Top 25.


not worth it in my opinion when Sean Smith graded out higher than him.
In contrast Hakeem Nicks was drafted right after him and is top ten at his position.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:48 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
not worth it in my opinion when Sean Smith graded out higher than him.
In contrast Hakeem Nicks was drafted right after him and is top ten at his position.


We didn't get Nicks. But we did get a Top 25 CB .... oh woe was us.

The following stats are taken from the 2010 season

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:49 pm 
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he was the 43rd corner last year and looks worse this year.
Easy to see why they would trade him for a 2nd round pick. I still say very good value in return.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:51 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
he was the 43rd corner last year and looks worse this year.
Easy to see why they would trade him for a 2nd round pick. I still say very good value in return.


43rd? Where do you derive that number from? Link?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:53 pm 
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looks like our boy Smith beats him out every year.
I remember the coaches saying that Smith grew up and davis didnt on Hard Knocks.
Smith practices with a fierce attitude. I was disgusted watching Vontae hiding on the sidelines saying he was acting like an in-shape player. That type of crap disgusts me as an average citizen making average pay to bust my a$$ at work everyday and this guy can't even stay in shape. What a joke!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:54 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
looks like our boy Smith beats him out every year.
I remember the coaches saying that Smith grew up and davis didnt on Hard Knocks.
Smith practices with a fierce attitude. I was disgusted watching Vontae hiding on the sidelines saying he was acting like an in-shape player. That type of crap disgusts me as an average citizen making average pay to bust my butt at work everyday and this guy can't even stay in shape. What a joke!


Still waiting on that link showing VD ranked as the 43rd CB in the NFL ....

OMG he's 24 years old, after that there's no ability to ever grow up. He's doomed!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:56 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
he was the 43rd corner last year and looks worse this year.
Easy to see why they would trade him for a 2nd round pick. I still say very good value in return.


43rd? Where do you derive that number from? Link?



i already supplied it above


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:58 pm 
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Rock Sexton wrote:
swerve13 wrote:
looks like our boy Smith beats him out every year.
I remember the coaches saying that Smith grew up and davis didnt on Hard Knocks.
Smith practices with a fierce attitude. I was disgusted watching Vontae hiding on the sidelines saying he was acting like an in-shape player. That type of crap disgusts me as an average citizen making average pay to bust my butt at work everyday and this guy can't even stay in shape. What a joke!


Still waiting on that link showing VD ranked as the 43rd CB in the NFL ....

OMG he's 24 years old, after that there's no ability to ever grow up. He's doomed!



no team wants to keep wasting time and money on a player that pulls the same crap every year. you should know that's one of the cardinal sins of the NFL to show up out of shape. teams won't tolerate it.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:59 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
i already supplied it above


There is not a single link from you on that page.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:00 pm 
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The Vontae and Marshall trades are completely seperate........Ireland made the move to get rid of Marshall in March........if we kept him, he would be costing us $12mil/yr for the next 2 years. He was good, but not that good.

The Vontae decison is Philbin's. We had Vontae under contract through 2013 under a very favorable contract. Despite great on the field talent, he did not fit Philbin's prototype.

I hope this is just a precursor to a trade for a high value reciever. After 3 losing seasons and a 0-7 start last year...........I don't expect the fan base will have a lot of pateince for another losing season.

If this sounds eerily familor, go back to 2007, when the new head coach Cam Cameron and GM Randy Mueller traded Wes Welker to the Pats for a 2nd and 7th round draft picks. How did that work out?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:01 pm 
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According to Pro Football Focus, Vontae Davis' ranking among all NFL cornerbacks
last year was 43rd. Richard Marshall, the veteran brought in on a three-year deal that now essentially replaces Vontae, was ranked 51st among 109 qualifying corners in 2011.



if you absolutely have to have a link you're going to need to find it yourself


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:03 pm 
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Listen.......we've been watching Vontae play for the last 3 seasons.........he was clearly the best CB we had.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:08 pm 
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shularino wrote:
Listen.......we've been watching Vontae play for the last 3 seasons.........he was clearly the best CB we had.



clearly? not to me. Not to the new coaches. Smith was always close and now he has surpased him. that chart that Rock just posted showed Smith as the 2nd best corner in the NFL.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:10 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
clearly? not to me. Not to the new coaches. Smith was always close and now he has surpased him. that chart that Rock just posted showed Smith as the 2nd best corner in the NFL.


No, the chart shows how often the CB is thrown at.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:13 pm 
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looks like they're always throwing Vontae's way


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:15 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
looks like they're always throwing Vontae's way


Always? That's what you get from reading a stat that says he was in 566 cover snaps, only thrown at 79 times (12.72% of his snaps)? Ya, not quite.

In fact what that statistic shows from 2010 for both VD and Smith is what we've always known we've been missing ... i.e. a quality nickel corner.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:16 pm 
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No team would have given us a 2nd for Smith or any other CB we had. The stats fail to show that Vontae consistently played man against our opponents best recivers........Holmes, Moss etc.

Can anyone on this forum really say Smith outplayed Davis the last 3 years. C'mon.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:18 pm 
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they still throw alot more at davis than at Smith


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:20 pm 
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swerve13 wrote:
they still throw alot more at davis than at Smith


Less than 3% differential and both players were thrown at very little. That year both were in the top 10 for least thrown at. Again, the weak link was the nickel back in the defense, as well as the safeties.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:44 pm 
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But Dolphins general manager Jeff Ireland, who pulled the trigger on the deal, told The Miami Herald that the team doesn’t necessarily have to wait until April’s draft to make use of the freshly acquired picks.

“We’re looking, and this gives us a little bit of ammunition,” Ireland said when asked of potentially trading for a receiver. “If we can do something, we’ll do it now.

“We appreciate all the contributions Vontae has made to the Dolphins since we drafted him in 2009, and we want to wish him the best of success in Indianapolis,” Ireland added.

One receiver likely not in Miami’s plans: Terrell Owens, released by the Seahawks on Sunday. Ireland said the team is “probably not interested” in Owens.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/08/27/2 ... rylink=cpy


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:45 am 
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Quote:
Finally, I recognize that trading Davis probably didn't cost Miami any wins in 2012.

So far, some are reacting like Miami just lost a star. Some of these people are the same ones that criticize Davis, even suggesting he should change positions. Am I excited about this trade? Not terribly exciting. This isn't an exciting trade like the Bears getting Brandon Marshall or as exciting as Asante Samuel being sent to the Falcons. But I don't think this is a bad trade either. This isn't one of those terrible desperation moves like Miami made when they sent a third-round pick to the Rams for Lamar Gordon. This wasn't a lopsided trade when Miami sent a third-round pick along with the blossoming Adewale Ogunleye for Marty Booker when he was on the downslope of his career. No, this was probably a fair trade that served the Colts and Dolphins equally


http://www.thephinsider.com/2012/8/27/3 ... avis-trade


looks like the vast majority like the trade when polled.


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