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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:42 pm 
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https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh-st ... 129064090/

I say do it. Draft for the trenches in 2019. Keep tannehill and ask him to destructure his contract. With Brown, Grant and Wilson returning, if they can land a couple of nice guards in the next 2 months, this team can shock the NFL and make a playoff run this coming season. I say do it.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:58 pm 
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Breaking the bank on another PIT wideout who burns bridges?

The team will eventually have a lot of cap space to work with...these uber talented diva receivers traditionally don’t do nearly as well on their second team after burning down the house inside the franchise that drafted them.

He was also the perfect receiver for Ben’s sometimes unpredictable, on the fly play style too. I don’t see any scenario that has him playing as well down here. It’s all about the money and I would bet my left nut this guy isn’t interested in giving the hometown discount.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:26 pm 
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AFCMiamiEast wrote:
Breaking the bank on another PIT wideout who burns bridges?

The team will eventually have a lot of cap space to work with...these uber talented diva receivers traditionally don’t do nearly as well on their second team after burning down the house inside the franchise that drafted them.

He was also the perfect receiver for Ben’s sometimes unpredictable, on the fly play style too. I don’t see any scenario that has him playing as well down here. It’s all about the money and I would bet my left nut this guy isn’t interested in giving the hometown discount.


There's plenty of examples of WRs doing just as well if not better at their 2nd team. This guy is still hands down better than any receiver we've had since the Marks brothers. And he's still under contract. We just have to wait until close to March 17 and offer Pittsburgh a 7th rd pick for him. Think about it, Brown, Stills, Wilson, Amendola, a nice group of young TEs with a 2nd offseason under their belts, Drake returning at RB, all we really need is some decent guards on offense. On defense, we just need to seriously beef up the DL. This team can be very competitive this season, and have something to build off of for years to come, without selling off the entire team and rebuilding everything from scratch.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:55 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:49 pm 
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No. Sure he's arguably the best receiver in the league, but who will throw to him? Sign a couple free agent guards you say? We've tried that once or twice, right? Not to mention the drama and bull crap we would face every freaking week. That's the old Dolphins way of doing things, hiring the big splash free agent. Where has that gotten us?

No, no, emphatically no.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:11 am 
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:))

If I'm paying all that money for a great player then I am keeping Xavien Howard instead. Xavian is in his prime while Brown is now 30 and being a child.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:19 am 
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Well obviously he wants to play for the Dolphins. Who wouldnt?
But im a bit wary of having that kind of presence here at this point.
If having an elite QB is not enough for him I think he would get tired of being here real quick.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:22 am 
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I'm not talking about signing a couple of free agent guards just to have bodies there, I'm talking about using free agency and the draft to actually upgrade those positions. We haven't actually upgraded the interior OL since Incognito was brought in way back when. If we could have somehow managed to draft Mahomes a couple of years ago, you guys would be calling him garbage today because of this crap we've had for an interior OL the past few years. That's been the old Dolphin way of doing things, signing and drafting for the DL and secondary while ignoring the interior of the OL.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:25 am 
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Relive1972 wrote:
this team can shock the NFL and make a playoff run this coming season. I say do it.


I think you gone bonkers on us pal....this isn’t even worth debating so the most expedient way of representing my reaction to this looney tunes idea of yours is....

:))

Get over it. It’s tear down time....and get me Kyler Murray to help get things started.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:52 am 
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Everything hangs on how cursed the offensive line will either still be or hopefully stop being. Nothing else really matters.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:03 am 
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Relive1972 wrote:
If we could have somehow managed to draft Mahomes a couple of years ago, you guys would be calling him garbage today because of this crap we've had for an interior OL the past few years.


There’s no point in arguing the Tannehill issue anymore but what you are saying there basically is you think Tannehill is as good as Mahomes. Ridiculous.

And this notion of yours that the Dolphins need to upgrade the oline as if they haven’t tried and tried again, is also off the mark. Over six consecutive drafts, starting in 2010, the Dolphins invested 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks trying to do exactly what you claim needs to be done:

Dallas Thomas, Jamil Douglas, Billy Turner, Jonathan Martin, Mike Pouncey, John Jerry.

The Fins are in this bind today because they can’t draft their way out of a paper bag. Maybe Grier is neck deep responsible maybe not. We’ll see. But even if they invested nothing but 1st rounders the next few years at the expense of everything else needed, combining the incompetence shown up to this point of the Dolphins talent evaluators with the fact that college offensive linemen are the hardest to evaluate in terms of how their talent transfers to the NFL, we’d still be talking about this problem 10 years from now.

Get me a QB that doesn’t depend like Tannehill on 2 minutes of protection on every pass drop, then we’ll see how we go about building around him.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:28 am 
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Antonio Brown and Leveon Bell seem like bad fits for this new "team first" culture Flores wants to implement.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:24 pm 
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If we felt we were a receiver away from doing big things, I'd be in the we should consider it boat. However, this team is so far away from that scenario it isn't funny.

This type of move goes against everything that has been said so far this offseason about changing the culture, building the team up, etc. etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:06 pm 
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Honestly in a division where sweeping the Jets and Bills and splitting with NE I dont get the tank or tear it down mentality.
I"ll say it again. Its a good year for a bridge veteran QB. Draft a QB in the first round. One of these guys should be there.
AFC is still wide open past 2 or 3 teams.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:08 pm 
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HAHA Rich.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:32 pm 
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Coots wrote:
If we felt we were a receiver away from doing big things, I'd be in the we should consider it boat. However, this team is so far away from that scenario it isn't funny.

This type of move goes against everything that has been said so far this offseason about changing the culture, building the team up, etc. etc.


That was my first thought. I honestly don’t think anyone in Miami wants him, maybe with the exception of Ross.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 2:51 pm 
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Makchell wrote:
HAHA Rich.


Amiright or amiright?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:03 pm 
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carreramia wrote:

There’s no point in arguing the Tannehill issue anymore but what you are saying there basically is you think Tannehill is as good as Mahomes. Ridiculous.

And this notion of yours that the Dolphins need to upgrade the oline as if they haven’t tried and tried again, is also off the mark. Over six consecutive drafts, starting in 2010, the Dolphins invested 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks trying to do exactly what you claim needs to be done:

Dallas Thomas, Jamil Douglas, Billy Turner, Jonathan Martin, Mike Pouncey, John Jerry.

The Fins are in this bind today because they can’t draft their way out of a paper bag. Maybe Grier is neck deep responsible maybe not. We’ll see. But even if they invested nothing but 1st rounders the next few years at the expense of everything else needed, combining the incompetence shown up to this point of the Dolphins talent evaluators with the fact that college offensive linemen are the hardest to evaluate in terms of how their talent transfers to the NFL, we’d still be talking about this problem 10 years from now.

Get me a QB that doesn’t depend like Tannehill on 2 minutes of protection on every pass drop, then we’ll see how we go about building around him.


Nowhere did I say that Tannehill is as good as Mahomes. My point was, that any QB you put behind this OL is going to struggle, I don't care who he is. Heck, swap Tannehill for Brady this past season, maybe Tannhill doesn't go on to win the SB, but I can assure you that Brady isn't going to the playoffs.

And what point are you trying to make listing all of those draft busts for the OL? It just reinforces my point, alomg with the fact none of those players are still in the league except for Jerry and Pouncey. And just because our front office hasn't been able to draft guards we're suppose to just give up on it? Hey, using that logic, we might as well give up drafting QBs too.

Tannehill needing 2 minutes of protection.....please. How about 2 seconds, he can't even get that against stout DLs. Get a QB first, then worry about the OL later? How is that QB supposed to be evaluated? You'll be giving up on QBs every year, just to give up on him the next year and draft another one. It would be a vicious cycle with no end.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:49 am 
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Right!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:51 am 
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Relive1972 wrote:

Nowhere did I say that Tannehill is as good as Mahomes. My point was, that any QB you put behind this OL is going to struggle, I don't care who he is.

And what point are you trying to make listing all of those draft busts for the OL? It just reinforces my point, alomg with the fact none of those players are still in the league except for Jerry and Pouncey. And just because our front office hasn't been able to draft guards we're suppose to just give up on it?

Tannehill needing 2 minutes of protection.....please. How about 2 seconds, he can't even get that against stout DLs. Get a QB first, then worry about the OL later? How is that QB supposed to be evaluated? You'll be giving up on QBs every year, just to give up on him the next year and draft another one.


On the Mahomes/Tannehill thing. Everyone has seen Mahomes pocket awareness and mobility, his ability to extend plays, all skills that Tannehill does not have, thus by saying Mahomes would have suffered the same difficulties as did Tannehill you are inferring they are both the same, ie., as good. Clearly I’m stretching the point but so are you when you chose to use Mahomes as a comparative example to excuse Tannehill’s failures here.

The oline vs QB thing. Those draft busts tells you that your philosophy of building the oline at the expense of bypassing what could be the skilled QB the Dolphins haven’t had in over two decades is suicidal. I don’t care if you have 5 all-pros up front, something that isn’t really attainable, but assuming you could do it, if you don’t have an excellent QB back there with a lot more skills than just his ability to sit in the pocket untouched you have not progressed as a franchise one iota.

And don’t underestimate the reality that college linemen are some of the most difficult players to evaluate and project to future NFL success. Combining that element with our failed drafting history once again you are promoting an approach which is doomed to fail.

The QB position on the other hand is more straightforward when you have an outstanding talent there like a Murray, or next year a Tua. I’ll refer you to Jimmy’s evaluation that a QB wth mobility can find the throwing lanes and buy time in the pocket with his running ability, thus offsetting a subpar oline. Yeah, I know that Jimmy was iffy regarding Murray’s size but he still said in the right system, with the right coaching he would be successful. I grant you I have no clue regarding our new coaching staff, whether or not they have the skills to take yourn and beat hisn and so on, but if they don’t have the ability to adapt to the talent on hand and would therefore bypass someone special like Murray, then my suffering pal, we are nowhere better.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:04 pm 
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carreramia wrote:

On the Mahomes/Tannehill thing. Everyone has seen Mahomes pocket awareness and mobility, his ability to extend plays, all skills that Tannehill does not have, thus by saying Mahomes would have suffered the same difficulties as did Tannehill you are inferring they are both the same, ie., as good. Clearly I’m stretching the point but so are you when you chose to use Mahomes as a comparative example to excuse Tannehill’s failures here.

The oline vs QB thing. Those draft busts tells you that your philosophy of building the oline at the expense of bypassing what could be the skilled QB the Dolphins haven’t had in over two decades is suicidal. I don’t care if you have 5 all-pros up front, something that isn’t really attainable, but assuming you could do it, if you don’t have an excellent QB back there with a lot more skills than just his ability to sit in the pocket untouched you have not progressed as a franchise one iota.

And don’t underestimate the reality that college linemen are some of the most difficult players to evaluate and project to future NFL success. Combining that element with our failed drafting history once again you are promoting an approach which is doomed to fail.

The QB position on the other hand is more straightforward when you have an outstanding talent there like a Murray, or next year a Tua. I’ll refer you to Jimmy’s evaluation that a QB wth mobility can find the throwing lanes and buy time in the pocket with his running ability, thus offsetting a subpar oline. Yeah, I know that Jimmy was iffy regarding Murray’s size but he still said in the right system, with the right coaching he would be successful. I grant you I have no clue regarding our new coaching staff, whether or not they have the skills to take yourn and beat hisn and so on, but if they don’t have the ability to adapt to the talent on hand and would therefore bypass someone special like Murray, then my suffering pal, we are nowhere better.


Look, there are offensive lines that are sub par, or just a little below average......and then there's the OL we've had the past few seasons, consistently ranking dead last or next to last each year. No QB is going to thrive with that kind of putrid protection. Ted Larsen, he wass the worst in '17, and again in '18. Jesse Davis wasn't much better, and neither were the centers we had. You saw what happened when they faced a stout DL like the Bengals, Vikings, and Bills. It was easy for the opponent, too darn easy. Same thing is happening to Rosen in Arizona. People are ready to give up on him, but he's had no protection there either.

Funny you're ready to take Jimmy's word as gospel when it comes to the OL, but not so much his evaluation of Murray. I rewatched Murray's game against Alabama in the Orange Bowl. Yes, he's a good athlete, he converted several 3rd downs in that game with his feet, because passing for it wasn't working. Alabama had him down 28-0 midway through the 2nd qtr. He did have one great deep pass that was perfectly thrown for a TD, but again, it was his speed running with ball that did the most damage. That's great in college when you're facing defenses that have no where near the talent as the worst the NFL has to offer. We've seen what happens to these type of QBs in the NFL. They might be successful at first, but it doesn't last long. My thinking is that Murray would be good for a team to use as a wildcat QB, or short distance pickups for 1st down or near the goal line, like the way the Rams use their backup QB. But as an every down QB? No thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:30 pm 
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Relive1972 wrote:
[But as an every down QB? No thanks.


Ok. Let me recap here. You want to keep Tannehill. You want to invest high picks on guards that traditionally struggle to even make the 53 man roster. You also want to spend FA money again on over priced offensive linemen whose former teams know their asking price would not match production. And to cap your rookie year as wannabe Fins GM you want to trade for and sign the cancerous Antonio Brown.

And you want me to trust your judgement of Kyler Murray.

Here's a “no thanks!” back at ya.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:42 pm 
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carreramia wrote:

Ok. Let me recap here. You want to keep Tannehill. You want to invest high picks on guards that traditionally struggle to even make the 53 man roster. You also want to spend FA money again on over priced offensive linemen whose former teams know their asking price would not match production. And to cap your rookie year as wannabe Fins GM you want to trade for and sign the cancerous Antonio Brown.

And you want me to trust your judgement of Kyler Murray.

Here's a “no thanks!” back at ya.


Let me try to make it simple for you.......I DO NOT AGREE THAT THIS TEAM NEEDS A COMPLETE REBUILDING. We were 7-9, even with an ego-maniac as a headcoach and half our starters on IR. Ross is clueless, and this whole rebuilding the team thing from him is just a knee-jerk reaction to not making the playoffs again. It's him giving up and taking his ball and going home. Let's just tear it up and start over again? No team does that, except for teams like the Lions and Jets, and it still hasn't worked for them. It would be one thing if we actually had someone in place who has experience at rebuilding a roster. We don't even have a GM who can make a roster decision on his own. And now we've got a new head coach too who has zero experience at running a team, whether it be Pros or High school Football. Yeah, this plan they have in place is going to work out really well........for the teams on our schedule the next umpteen years.

So yeah, my plan, I hire an experienced head coach who brings in a competent staff, this includes a good OL coach who can guide Grier as to what players he should go after, and a defensive line coach that does the same. And if one of the best receivers in football wants to come join my team, I welcome him with open arms, all the while knowing that all great WRs are Divas and they have to be handled in a different way. As for QB, yes I keep Tannehill, but I also keep my eyes open for an upgrade there. And then I go on to win a lot more games in the next 10 years than what your plan will produce.

My only hope now is that Flores is smart enough that he gets together with Grier and they go talk to Ross and explain to him that this team just needs a few additions on both sides of the ball to be ultra competitive, and Ross says "Just Do It". Otherwise, you and I both will never see a Dolphin team crowned World Champion again.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 7:43 pm 
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Heck to the no


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:06 pm 
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Relive1972 wrote:
carreramia wrote:

Ok. Let me recap here. You want to keep Tannehill. You want to invest high picks on guards that traditionally struggle to even make the 53 man roster. You also want to spend FA money again on over priced offensive linemen whose former teams know their asking price would not match production. And to cap your rookie year as wannabe Fins GM you want to trade for and sign the cancerous Antonio Brown.

And you want me to trust your judgement of Kyler Murray.

Here's a “no thanks!” back at ya.


Let me try to make it simple for you.......I DO NOT AGREE THAT THIS TEAM NEEDS A COMPLETE REBUILDING. We were 7-9, even with an ego-maniac as a headcoach and half our starters on IR. Ross is clueless, and this whole rebuilding the team thing from him is just a knee-jerk reaction to not making the playoffs again. It's him giving up and taking his ball and going home. Let's just tear it up and start over again? No team does that, except for teams like the Lions and Jets, and it still hasn't worked for them. It would be one thing if we actually had someone in place who has experience at rebuilding a roster. We don't even have a GM who can make a roster decision on his own. And now we've got a new head coach too who has zero experience at running a team, whether it be Pros or High school Football. Yeah, this plan they have in place is going to work out really well........for the teams on our schedule the next umpteen years.

So yeah, my plan, I hire an experienced head coach who brings in a competent staff, this includes a good OL coach who can guide Grier as to what players he should go after, and a defensive line coach that does the same. And if one of the best receivers in football wants to come join my team, I welcome him with open arms, all the while knowing that all great WRs are Divas and they have to be handled in a different way. As for QB, yes I keep Tannehill, but I also keep my eyes open for an upgrade there. And then I go on to win a lot more games in the next 10 years than what your plan will produce.

My only hope now is that Flores is smart enough that he gets together with Grier and they go talk to Ross and explain to him that this team just needs a few additions on both sides of the ball to be ultra competitive, and Ross says "Just Do It". Otherwise, you and I both will never see a Dolphin team crowned World Champion again.


I disagree with your plan on pretty much every point. 1. Yes, we need a rebuild. 2. A few additions are all it takes? We are crap on the O line except for LT. (Our RT is a free agent about to be overpaid.) We are crap at D line. I love Wake, but he's just about done. Nobody else on the line is a difference maker. No linebacker on the roster is a difference maker. Just lots of "potential." But more than anything, I think it is a done deal that Tannehill is gone. I have defended him a lot on these forums, and I would stick by my opinion. He's a tough SOB and has moments of greatness but is not a QB that will help his team rise above mediocrity. He's not elite, and not close enough often enough to really fool you into thinking he might be. It's time to wish him the best and move on. Wherever he goes, I will root for him. (Unless it's in the AFC East, of course.) I find your post naive and misguided, but that's just me. No offense intended.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:35 am 
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k-dash wrote:

I disagree with your plan on pretty much every point. 1. Yes, we need a rebuild. 2. A few additions are all it takes? We are crap on the O line except for LT. (Our RT is a free agent about to be overpaid.) We are crap at D line. I love Wake, but he's just about done. Nobody else on the line is a difference maker. No linebacker on the roster is a difference maker. Just lots of "potential." But more than anything, I think it is a done deal that Tannehill is gone. I have defended him a lot on these forums, and I would stick by my opinion. He's a tough SOB and has moments of greatness but is not a QB that will help his team rise above mediocrity. He's not elite, and not close enough often enough to really fool you into thinking he might be. It's time to wish him the best and move on. Wherever he goes, I will root for him. (Unless it's in the AFC East, of course.) I find your post naive and misguided, but that's just me. No offense intended.


You and I aren't really that far apart in our thinking. Yes, we need 2 quality guards and a RT. I am not in favor of resigning James, I thought he should have been replaced 2 years ago. The DL does need a lot of attention. Yes, Wake is getting older, but he also still produces, and he strikes me to be the type of player to know when it's time to give it up, so as long as he's still willing, I'll ride with him. This draft is loaded with DL talent, if we spent our first 2 picks there, I would not mind.

Our LBs, I hated them at the beginning of the season last year. Alonzo, love his motor, he plays sideline to sideline, but he can't cover anyone in pass defense. I would try to replace him on just that aspect. McMillan and Baker are still young, and they do have potential, and I saw lots of improvement from them as the season went on. Of course, a lot will depend on what kind of defense we will be trying to install. Maybe Harris thrives in this new defense, who knows? We'll just have to wait and see.

I agree with everyone that Tannehill is probably gone. I don't think it's right, but all of the local media and probably 90% of the fan base has blamed him for our offensive failures last year. I see them moving on from him just to appease a majority of the fan base. I still say there's only so much a QB can do when he has little to no blocking from the interior of his OL. Everyone forgets that after week 3 last year, Tannehill was a top 5 QB in completion %, QBR, and deep ball accuracy. But then the OL pretty much collapsed and he got injured, and was never the same afterward. He will move on, and we will hear of his success wherever he goes.

And you know, I may be naive and misguided, I just don't believe in giving up. The Dolphins have given up, it's hard for me to accept that.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:39 am 
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I think, personally, all this team needs is Bobby Jo Samuel. BJS would change everything.

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....maybe just Uncle Rico?

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